Klein DAC II

[matth]

Guys,

last Friday I attended the DSD512 Fest in Munich. It was a pleasure to experience first-hand what upsampling of all files to DSD512 brings to the party.

Matt

[Jventer]

I am not an expert, but I think we have some misconceptions here.

 

I have posted earlier that IMO one has to decide what type of dac you want, e.g ladder type, the latest and greatest or DSD. There are different dacs for different purposes and tastes and it is not that anyone is wrong, it is just that we are different.

 

Where DSD comes in is not so much the source material. This is a BIG misconception. Source material is not the issue. 

 

What is happening now is that computers and software are used to upsample music to DSD 512 and then fed to the dac. 

 

A DSD512 dac is able to play source material up to DSD512, but at this stage it is more aimed to play the music upsampled by software like HQplayer. 

 

Edit: Thanks @@matth for clarifying - I am wrong then

Edited May 10, 2016 by Jventer

[matth]

With a DSD512 capable Klein DAC you get all you need and with an additional SRC chip inside the DAC you do not need a software player for converting the files.

Matt

Edited May 10, 2016 by matth

[Gieseler Audio]

Hey any chance of some feedback on the sound difference on DSD when using the bypass option.

This is implemented by pressing the mute button (lowest button) on the remote control. "B" shows on display

When on it bypasses quite a bit of the AK4490's internal circuitry.

Taken out of the loop are;

soft mute/attenuation control,  interpolator & the Delta sigma Modulator.

see block diagram

 

 

Unfortunately there is a twenty five percent drop in level during bypass so you need to quickly level match during comparisons.

I still can't quite decide myself if there is a big improvement or not.

Anyone tried this?

[matth]

@Clay:

Do you know if there is a DSD to PCM conversion for volume control of DSD signals in the AK4490 or is volume control for DSD signals performed in the DSD domain without conversion to PCM?

@Jventer:

Thanks, no problem.

Kind regards

Matt

Edited May 11, 2016 by matth

[Gieseler Audio]

Good question Matt - I have not looked into that as I don't use the digital antenuator in the chip for level control but I have certainly thought about it. Re reading the data sheet the answer to your question is not clear. Next time I am taking to AKM I will check with them about it. For my DAC pre I will be using the Muses 72320 electron volume chip for level control. This is a awesum device for level control, very transparent & rated better than a lot of switched level antenuators including the Goldpoint. The good thing is it will never wear out or get noisy like a switch or pot can. I have just upgraded my preamp & the level control using the Muse chip is incredibly good with a very smooth precise control action & perfect click free muting. I will do a release on the new Preamp in Stereonet in the next few days.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Gieseler Audio

[matth]

Clay,

you can be proud of your DACs, your preamp and power supplies, all terrific products, indeed.

 

All serious reports about volume control say the same: The analogue control like implemented with the Muses in the Klein Preamp is much superior to a DVC.

 

So IMO for the best sound quality the way to go is to use the direct DSD path with a good analogue volume control.

 

Matt

Edited May 11, 2016 by matth

[matth]

Hi Clay,

I will send you a PM.

KR

Matt

Edited May 15, 2016 by matth

[Suopermanni]

Is there a point in upsampling files to DSD 256 or 512?

 

Does it make much of a difference? I've never done it myself hence why I'm asking.

 

Could be an interesting experiment for me to do.

[matth]

Suopermanni,

there is a great discussion about that on the CA forum. Please go to this forum, take the search function and look for the posts of the contributor EURODRIVER. You will find all the infos you need.

Matt

Edited May 15, 2016 by matth

[Suopermanni]

What's the CA forum, could you give me a link or a complete name to look up? Not familiar with it, sorry!

[matth]

Computeraudiophile.com

Matt

[Guest Sime]

@andrewyuri morning mate, do you still have the Klein II?

[andrewyuri]

@Sime no not in the system any more.

 

[lemarquis]

I am a Klein I owner and now a happy Klein II owner.  I haven't seen much feedback on the filter options for this Dac. I listen (mostly) to classical (symphonies and piano concertos etc.) and also some Floyd or Eno or Zappa, Neil Young... On the Klein I , I used the filter settings most favoured on that thread (can't remember exactly, but 1 was up the other down).. of course I've accidentally bumped the switches whilst moving in the Klein II

 

Appreciate that these things are subjective and system dependent to a degree, but any feedback / suggestions welcome. Unfortunately the unit is tucked away behind so I can't change filters on the fly whilst listening. See my gear below.. also using coax input from PC listening to 24/96-192 or redbook.

 

Cheers

Edited July 24, 2018 by lemarquis

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Finally cashed up to add the final piece of the puzzle to my system, my second Klein DAC! Looking for a #2 this time and pretty desperate to source one in black from anyone looking to upgrade to the GroB!

[MakeshiftAtlas]

Hi guys, I am planning my audio progression and was recommended Clay's products by @Neo. I occasionally come across photos of Geiseler products but thought nothing much of them because of the bland designs. After the recommendation, I researched and have been impressed with the overwhelmingly positive feedback Gieseler has received from other forum members. Glad to now know most of the costs were spent on the internals instead of fancy external designs. Plus, its a small Australian business and that's something I can definitely get behind!  Will be giving Clay a call tomorrow to learn more about the wizardry behind his DACs and PSUs. 

 

Now, I am hoping to gather opinions regarding his DACs. Specifically, the Klein II which I see as a potential medium-term option. I plan to use it mainly with a SRS3100 system. I would like to know:

 

(1) How does the Klein II at $1000 compare to competitors priced $2000 and below? How well does it hold up against the OPPA HA 2 or the RME ADI DAC 2? 

(2) Has anyone tested the Klein II with a STAX system, AKG k7xx or the HD58x Jubilee? (or any of the Sennheiser 5**/6** line up)

 

Thanks!

 

PS: I will research into potential energiser upgrades later this month. Because I own some dynamics, energiser purchases would be made after purchasing such a DAC.

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by MakeshiftAtlas

[lemarquis]

@MakeshiftAtlas Hi,

 

I can't answer your specific queries but I can say that this is an awesome DAC and lives up to all the rave reviews. I upgraded it recently from a Klein I (already a great DAC in itself) and it was a very noticeable step up and I haven't even tried DSD yet.

 

I won't be upgrading any time soon. Good luck with it and let us know how you get on 

[Snoopy8]

1 hour ago, MakeshiftAtlas said:

Hi guys, I am planning my audio progression and was recommended Clay's products by @Neo. I occasionally come across photos of Geiseler products but thought nothing much of them because of the bland designs. After the recommendation, I researched and have been impressed with the overwhelmingly positive feedback Gieseler has received from other forum members. Glad to now know most of the costs were spent on the internals instead of fancy external designs. Plus, its a small Australian business and that's something I can definitely get behind!  Will be giving Clay a call tomorrow to learn more about the wizardry behind his DACs and PSUs. 

 

Now, I am hoping to gather opinions regarding his DACs. Specifically, the Klein II which I see as a potential medium-term option. I plan to use it mainly with a SRS3100 system. I would like to know:

 

(1) How does the Klein II at $1000 compare to competitors priced $2000 and below? How well does it hold up against the OPPA HA 2 or the RME ADI DAC 2? 

(2) Has anyone tested the Klein II with a STAX system, AKG k7xx or the HD58x Jubilee? (or any of the Sennheiser 5**/6** line up)

I assume you have gone thru all the reviews here.  The Klein II is a DAC only but you appear to be looking for a DAC with a headphone amplifier for use with headphones?  If so, then you will need a headphone amp to pair with Gieseler DACs.

 

Also, I believe Clay is not far from introducing a new DAC soon.

[Jventer]

@MakeshiftAtlas

Evening, don't know how long you have been on the forum, but it is great that you are posting and asking questions.

First up: I do not have any of Clay's products at the moment. I did have some of his products, I have visited his shop and I have spend t some time with him at GTG's. Having said all of that my opinion is that he sells his stuff too cheap. Time and time again when we compared his products the value for money is outstanding.

Unfortunately I am not able to reply to your specific questions and I am afraid that many of us are in the same position. There are just so many options.

So

What can I tell you.

The Klein did  not outperform my $13K cd/dac/pre in my main system - no surprise IMO.

In my headphone system which was a Sennheiser HD800 driven by a Luxman amp the Klein 1 and 2 did as well if not better than amps that were much more expensive, e.g. The Mytek 192 was not better.

There is no better judge than you and your ears, please visit Clay and listen.