New Linux Based Server Software - Snakeoil!

[AccuTidal]

Finally threw my atom-based pc together (with Js-2 and SoTM pcie sub and clock boards, jcat usb cable) yesterday and listened to snake oil and wtfplayer vs a highly sorted CEC tl-1 transport into a line magnetic dac.

It's early days, but the CEC won easily. I can't help but wonder if the xmos usb input board on the dac is a bottleneck.

Had a funny experience with snake oil. Fired it up, configured it with mpd, and then realised I had no idea how to play music! After some quick googling, couldn't get any flac files playing... Then went to something more familiar: squeeelite, but couldn't get any sound out using the web interface via an iPad. Fired up ipeng on my phone, and ... Music at last!

Compared to the disc spinner, the sound was a bit thin and distant.

Round 1 to the CEC, but I'm keen to repeat the test with a different dac.

Many thanks for your feedbacks!

The Agent Kith had quickly responded with an update on his software. There is a newer ISO image with kernel 3.12 and the latest mpd version. He had spent his Sunday afternoon right after reading your post work out away it could improve your listening experience. There will also be a revised manual with mpd thereafter on how to.

Please download the new ISO for atom and re-assess?!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doncentric]

Well said @@Rob181.

Everyone, could we please keep this thread about Snake Oil software. How we use it and our listening experiences.

It could really grow in to a valuable resource for a lot more people if we do.

[rocky500]

So if I wanted to buy a motherboard to use with Snakeoil, what would people currently recommend?

 

These came up in a search

http://mini-box.com.au/Intel%20Atom%20Mount.html

Edited March 20, 2016 by rocky500

[Sir Rab of Everest]

So if I wanted to buy a motherboard to use with Snakeoil, what would people currently recommend?

 

These came up in a search

http://mini-box.com.au/Intel%20Atom%20Mount.html

 

I bought the Intel 2800 mboard, largely based on this thread (and given ther unavailability of SoTM PCI (as opposed to PCIe) cards.

[Sir Rab of Everest]

The Agent Kith had quickly responded with an update on his software. There is a newer ISO image with kernel 3.12 and the latest mpd version. He had spent his Sunday afternoon right after reading your post work out away it could improve your listening experience. There will also be a revised manual with mpd thereafter on how to.

Please download the new ISO for atom and re-assess?!

 

Hi Chanh, many thanks to you and Agent Kith!

 

I will do so, although probably can't test it until next weekend. I have no idea why mpd wasn't working for me. I downloaded an mpd client onto an iPad: it seemed access the server, said it was creating the database etc, but then there were no artist/album/song entries to select. I was expecting a local client, and I see there was (an ncurses) one but it didn't seem to work.

 

Incidentally, right at the end I remembered wtfplayer and tried that quickly. The impression I had is that it sounded a little better than squeezelite on snakeoil, but I only had time to test it on one track. Next time.

 

Thanks again!

 

- r

[AccuTidal]

Hi Chanh, many thanks to you and Agent Kith!

I will do so, although probably can't test it until next weekend. I have no idea why mpd wasn't working for me. I downloaded an mpd client onto an iPad: it seemed access the server, said it was creating the database etc, but then there were no artist/album/song entries to select. I was expecting a local client, and I see there was (an ncurses) one but it didn't seem to work.

Incidentally, right at the end I remembered wtfplayer and tried that quickly. The impression I had is that it sounded a little better than squeezelite on snakeoil, but I only had time to test it on one track. Next time.

Thanks again!

- r

Rab,

With MPD, I use MpaD for iPad and MPoD(free from AppStore) for iPhone. No artworks unfortunately.

Typically, you should "update the database" in the setting, follow by "refresh local cache". Wait it few minutes, the library should be there in your remote app. To hear music, you must ensure the output is selected.

Should try the new ISO image. It is to my ears much more natural then kernel 3.03. Keen hearing back your new feedbacks on new ISO.

Hope it helps?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JDWest]

Hi Chanh, many thanks to you and Agent Kith!

 

I will do so, although probably can't test it until next weekend. I have no idea why mpd wasn't working for me. I downloaded an mpd client onto an iPad: it seemed access the server, said it was creating the database etc, but then there were no artist/album/song entries to select. I was expecting a local client, and I see there was (an ncurses) one but it didn't seem to work.

 

Incidentally, right at the end I remembered wtfplayer and tried that quickly. The impression I had is that it sounded a little better than squeezelite on snakeoil, but I only had time to test it on one track. Next time.

 

Thanks again!

 

- r

Rab,

What Chanh said but before you try that, note that I also use DN2800 mobo with SOtM PCIe+clock and had exact same problem as you with MPD. The issue was resolved by switching to any of the 3 newer kernels.

 

Rather than going to the new iso, there is another way:

Follow online instructions to update the firmware and then switch to another kernel.

 

Also IMO the SOtM PCIe+clock sounded better after a few days burn in, so keep it running.

[davewantsmoore]

Am I missing what you are trying to say?

 

Yes, I think so.   I'm not trying to say anything.

 

I'm asking Tasso what he knows that's wrong with them.

 

 

Most of the industrial (business) computers I have seen have been installed even without an audio side at all to them.

 

Depending on what you mean by "audio side" .... then this could be a good thing.    (ie.  there's no audio controller anywhere in the motherboard)

 

All you need is a USB, firewire, PCI, or whatever you are plugging your audio hardware into.

[TP1]

 

 

I'm asking Tasso what he knows that's wrong with them.

 

 

We are only using computer parts because we dont have the expertise to build  new  machines from scratch like Aurender, JFdigital , Linn , Naim etc have done.   Thinking of the best music server as being the best computer is a mistake  because  what sounds better from the perspective of audio does not necessarily follow what is best practice in the computing world. . The critical issue here is not the ability to operate reliably in mission critical real time applications, but to sound better than other motherboards. 

 

There is really not much more to say other than nothing should be assumed to be suitable for audio until it has proven to be the case in practice.  

[davewantsmoore]

Great.  So nothing in general to detract from the concept then?!?     There's a lot of this on the horizon  (small boards with very few protocols and connectors, intended for applications other than a 'regular computer').

 

 

My last foray into this sort of thing was redirecting pulseaudio over the network to a little SoC running only USB and Ethernet, and tinkering around with power and shielding, etc.....    It had just been pulled into major distros, and I just realised how long ago that was (time flies, feels like just yesterday)

[TP1]

 Snakeoil  beta release 0.1.2  seems like a  worthwhile improvement.   Dynamics seem to hit harder with improved overall resolution.   The browser interface can also be accessed using  "computer name".local  as the destination without having to use IP address.   However, I did need to use VNC for installation since mouse wouldn't work with my setup. This will no doubt be addressed in the next release.

[rocky500]

Just had another go installing (actually running off a usb stick) snakeoil.

I got it to work this time.

I am not a linux user and was looking for a file explorer or player on the snakoil machine itself to find and play my files.

I now realise this sets up the snakoil machine to be used by another machine.

So downloaded Gmpc portable on my other windows machine and control all my files on the snakeoil PC with this other PC. 

 

Sounds very dynamic but only just got it working and have new speakers since last night. So will need some time to get used to the sound of the new speakers first.

Also I feel I must be in the poor quality sound group (so it seems from others posting here on SNA) as I use USB. Sounds great to me anyway, so no need for me to change my Dac.

Edited March 25, 2016 by rocky500

[Guest rmpfyf]

Also I feel I must be in the poor quality sound group (so it seems from others posting here on SNA) as I use USB. 

 

Don't think anyone posting here on SNA has suggested USB is poor quality.

[rocky500]

Don't think anyone posting here on SNA has suggested USB is poor quality.

 

I had to do a search but I did find this one below

"USB is a crap interface not designed for audio made almost good by the work of many people. For audiophiles it is literally a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Few people realise how easy it is to drop bits in asynchronous USB. If you can handle SPDIF and re-clock it properly, it will slay USB most of the time. I2S native just has lesser steps. USB is an extra series of steps we should want to avoid. It wins only in convenience. "

 

Anyway, this should be a thread about snakeoil and peoples feedback on it.

Edited March 25, 2016 by rocky500

[betty boop]

[moderator post] locking this thread for the moment, while decide what to do. Guys this thread is a mess. We can clean it up removing all the accusations and personal affronts. Or some restraint can be shown going forward. Perhaps something to think about. Maybe a pause for thought might help this thread resume on a reasonable basis. If there is something to be dealt with please use the report function for us to deal with, as getting personal such as been going on is not tolerated. [end moderator post]

[betty boop]

[moderator post] Hi all, reopening this thread after quite  clean up, am sure theres some collateral. this is a popular thread with a few followers can I suggest if posting here, as per my post above, please keep it on topic, without the personal jibes and accusations. if have some concern please use the report function instead [end moderator post]

[statman]

How do you use the "report" function, I cant find it anywhere?

[betty boop]

you press the little report button on the bottom right of a post, to the left of the edit button, e.g. in yours,

 

 

[Addicted to music]

you press the little report button on the bottom right of a post, to the left of the edit button, e.g. in yours,

 

 

Screen Shot 2016-03-26 at 10.20.48 PM.png

Reported!

Does it work... . Just kidding.

[Sir Rab of Everest]

 

Please download the new ISO for atom and re-assess?!
 

 

OK, i did, but same result: LMS/iPeng works just fine, but nothing else seems to work. MPoD crashed a few times and tends to hang for extended periods... I even tried XMMS this time, but nothing comes up on the (local) display. Tried to connect with VNC, but it seems the port was not open...

 

What Chanh said but before you try that, note that I also use DN2800 mobo with SOtM PCIe+clock and had exact same problem as you with MPD. The issue was resolved by switching to any of the 3 newer kernels.

 

In view of my experience, it seems you are correct. By "3 newer kernels", i assume you mean 3.16, 3.19, or 4.2?

 

I would do that, but I do not know what optimisations Agent Kith has applied: I assume it's more than just compiling a real-time kernel with 64-bit intel CPU selection...?

 

Tomorrow I will try a manual debian install and see where that gets me...

Edited March 27, 2016 by Sir Rab of Everest

[Doncentric]

OK, i did, but same result: LMS/iPeng works just fine, but nothing else seems to work. MPoD crashed a few times and tends to hang for extended periods... I even tried XMMS this time, but nothing comes up on the (local) display. Tried to connect with VNC, but it seems the port was not open...

 

 

In view of my experience, it seems you are correct. By "3 newer kernels", i assume you mean 3.16, 3.19, or 4.2?

 

I would do that, but I do not know what optimisations Agent Kith has applied: I assume it's more than just compiling a real-time kernel with 64-bit intel CPU selection...?

 

Tomorrow I will try a manual debian install and see where that gets me...

Just install a new kernel. Again, so simple to do with the SnakeOil interface. In fact, try all three !!!

The optimizations are taken care of by Agent Kith no matter what kernel you are using.

So what I am saying is, why not try the other kernels? It has been made so easy for us to do.

[AccuTidal]

OK, i did, but same result: LMS/iPeng works just fine, but nothing else seems to work. MPoD crashed a few times and tends to hang for extended periods... I even tried XMMS this time, but nothing comes up on the (local) display. Tried to connect with VNC, but it seems the port was not open...

Tomorrow I will try a manual debian install and see where that gets me...

When using VNC, which port did you assign? Can my photo help?

Wrt MPoD, Have you selected a MPD player? Did your DAC lock in with the server? Where to did MPoD crash or hang?

May be you should communicate to Agent Kith via his site or email him via contact page? He is very helpful.

[Sir Rab of Everest]

OK, did some sleuthing: it was an mpd configuration issue. (Setting aside that MPoD sucks and still crashes on me every now and again -- I chased this down using an OSX mpd client).

 

Can you please ask Agent Kith to remove the directory depth limit from the mpd config file? With that removed, mpd seems to be working (this is without a DAC - I will get to try it tonight).

 

- r

Edited March 28, 2016 by Sir Rab of Everest

[TP1]

Tried to connect with VNC, but it seems the port was not open...

Tomorrow I will try a manual debian install and see where that gets me...

VNC tries to access with port 5900 but it is often blocked this way. Change port to 5901 and a connection should be made.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rocl444]

with the snakeoil salesman's help, i changed from LMS to MPD as my player yesterday. i was just interested in seeing if there was a difference and, if so, was it one i preferred.

 

i was sent a link to the beta version of 1.3 as 1.3 makes the whole process dead simple. so installed and then clicked on the Search Databases button, and then select and click play. woohoo - music!

 

well, it is different. but is it better? initially i thought not, but now i think maybe i might prefer it. the main difference to my old ears is that the music sounds a bit more "solid". the centre or "core" is a bit stronger without narrowing the soundstage. it seems another step closer to the sound of my cd player.

 

there are a couple of choices of MPD releases and maybe after living with this one for a while i will check out the others, as it's so easy.