Old skool dude needs advice on this digital stuff

[Guest rmpfyf]

I started out ripping to WAV years ago and so have stuck with the format.  About 1% of my files would be FLAC, the rest WAV.  I know FLAC is lossless, but I've always worried that sometime in the future someone will come along and say, "I've just discovered that FLAC actually isn't a 100% accurate copy"....or worse still "it's possibly inferior". 

 

If that happened, I'd have to rip my collection, yet again...I trust WAV.

 

It's an accurate copy (I've tested this), there's just a processing overhead to decode it. As correctly stated by @@gcgreg... not audible in most setups (on some, it is if being streamed). Converting back is possible.

 

There are other ways to get around it too (setup a script that copies, decodes and plays the decoded version... from RAM if you like...)

[Kaynin]

It's an accurate copy (I've tested this), there's just a processing overhead to decode it. As correctly stated by @@gcgreg... not audible in most setups (on some, it is if being streamed). Converting back is possible.

 

There are other ways to get around it too (setup a script that copies, decodes and plays the decoded version... from RAM if you like...)

 

 

Yeah, I understand the process and that it's accurate, but my point is that my concern is always that doubt will be raised in the future in some capacity...which would be enough for me to re-rip my collection from FLAC to WAV.  As a result, I chose WAV because I trust it.

[Kaynin]

FLAC has better metadata support and is usually about 40% smaller. There is no advantage using WAV in most setups.

 

 

The advantage, in my set-up, is that I sleep soundly at night with WAV. 

 

My set-up is WAV files on an external 1TB SSD -> Ref 7 -> amp, controlled by an iPad running 8Player.  The metadata I get is artist - album - song & number, plus album cover.  That's everything I need -

 

 

 

The FLAC vs WAV vs other lossless argument, for me, comes down to one main thing - you have to go with what suits you.  As we're all different, this will vary.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Kaynin

[gcgreg]

The advantage, in my set-up, is that I sleep soundly at night with WAV.

My set-up is WAV files on an external 1TB SSD -> Ref 7 -> amp, controlled by an iPad running 8Player. The metadata I get is artist - album - song & number, plus album cover. That's everything I need -

IMG_0776.JPG

The FLAC vs WAV vs other lossless argument, for me, comes down to one main thing - you have to go with what suits you. As we're all different, this will vary.

Yes, each to their own

Unsurprisingly, the lossless-compressed download of 8Player worked

[Guest rmpfyf]

Yeah, I understand the process and that it's accurate, but my point is that my concern is always that doubt will be raised in the future in some capacity...which would be enough for me to re-rip my collection from FLAC to WAV.  As a result, I chose WAV because I trust it.

 

No argument from me, I'm actually somewhat heartened by your experience. 

 

Having found a small but audible difference with WAV, I'm headed back that way.

 

(Same goes with RAM play).

[eman]

Looks like I might be headed for standalone squeezebox SB > Raspberry Pi > Ext HDD.

Even SB analog output to KISS.

SB crashes when faced with too much stand alone data.

[a.dent]

It's an accurate copy (I've tested this), there's just a processing overhead to decode it. As correctly stated by @@gcgreg... not audible in most setups (on some, it is if being streamed). Converting back is possible.

 

There are other ways to get around it too (setup a script that copies, decodes and plays the decoded version... from RAM if you like...)

 

I get my best sound when my ALAC/FLAC/AIFF files are converted to WAV, sent to RAM and played form there. There is a short wait while RAM loads but worth it in my opinion.

[keyse1]

OMHH  ...Oh my head hurts.....I have to put what down my dacks??

 

Thanks though guys for the tips. Keep 'em coming if ya want, I'm liking the advice and range of thoughts although I do lean towards the KISS approach.

Let us know what you have done when finished

[joz]

Looks like I might be headed for standalone squeezebox SB > Raspberry Pi > Ext HDD.

Even SB analog output to KISS.

SB crashes when faced with too much stand alone data.

 

If run via the puter its library size can be limitless.

Direct connection with the HDD via usb is your limiting factor.

You'll get there. Patience

[Kaynin]

Unsurprisingly, the lossless-compressed download of 8Player worked

 

 

It should do, all it does is act as a remote control from the iPad to the Ref7, nothing more... 

[davm]

If you decide to rip CDs, pay attention to metadata immediately. On the Mac there's a good program called Yate that's easy to use.

 

What's metadata? It's the cataloging information you store about songs and albums alongside the actual music. This includes information like song title, album title, performers, genre, composers, collections and lot's more.

 

Metadata is also a very complicated topic, but for me there's a few important points.

 

• Essential if you expect to build a large digital library. Metadata helps you to organise and find your music.
• Try to be consistent from the start
• If you have a lot of classical music consider putting composers with last name first, e.g. Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827). This helps group works by the same composer together consistently.
• Search in the forums here for threads on metadata. There's lot's of very practical and useful advice.

Edited January 31, 2016 by davm

[Kaynin]

• Try to be consistent from the start
• If you have a lot of classical music consider putting composers with last name first, e.g. Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827). This helps group works by the same composer together consistently.

 

+1.  Yes, organise yourself from the start...

[eman]

If run via the puter its library size can be limitless.

Direct connection with the HDD via usb is your limiting factor.

You'll get there. Patience

Hooked the HDD to the SB and it worked ! ......until I wanted it to do 'something'. (not enought ram?).

The idea is for the Pi to be the puter. (and some weird as yet mystery 'program').

 

Then it would be like a little version of the big rig which has DesktopPC >onboard HDD > music player program/keyboard > DAC/amp

Edited January 31, 2016 by E.Man

[essem]

FLAC has better metadata support and is usually about 40% smaller. There is no advantage using WAV in most setups.

Why flac over wav? This. I've come across the odd player where the user interface relies completely on tags for author, genre, year and so on. I can't hear a difference between flac/wav. If you have a flaky or constrained network and are streaming size might matter too; I experienced that with some early raspberry pi experiments -- very ocassional stutters on wavs but not with smaller flacs.

[joz]

Then it would be like a little version of the big rig which has DesktopPC >onboard HDD > music player program/keyboard > DAC/amp

 

Once you've done this you'll be on your way well and truly.

[eman]

Once you've done this you'll be on your way well and truly.

that bit I already have in the main room.

 

DesktopPC >onboard HDD > music player program/keyboard > DAC/amp

[joz]

Ok why not load the logitech server and plug your SBT directly into your computer via ethernet?

I know your stereo is probably still at the other end of the house atm.

But you may be able to start figuring the whole SB thing out while your waiting for your wireless thingo to arrive?

Just get a feel for it perhaps you have something poratble you can connect the SB too for some tunes?

[eman]

Ok why not load the logitech server and plug your SBT directly into your computer via ethernet?

I know your stereo is probably still at the other end of the house atm.

But you may be able to start figuring the whole SB thing out while your waiting for your wireless thingo to arrive?

Just get a feel for it perhaps you have something poratble you can connect the SB too for some tunes?

yeah I stuck some tunes on a USB flashdrive and SD card and SB is analog into the amp so there is SBT driven tunes happening at snooze time already, fear not.

 

other than that , yeah it's in another room and there's no extra ethernet slots.

 

No worries, I have limited standalone as above and all the bits are on the way to connect the SBT to the HDD to make a bigger standalone (...just like that....hahaha).

[bob_m_54]

Why flac over wav? This. I've come across the odd player where the user interface relies completely on tags for author, genre, year and so on. I can't hear a difference between flac/wav. If you have a flaky or constrained network and are streaming size might matter too; I experienced that with some early raspberry pi experiments -- very ocassional stutters on wavs but not with smaller flacs.

 

When ripping to flac, do you use replay gain for levelling? from what I have read, all it does is add a figure to a tag field, and doesn't actually affect the audio data as you have ripped it? So it is only implemented by the player you use.

 

I recently re-ripped all my CDs (around 700) to 320kbps variable (originally ripped at 192kbps some years ago). Since then, after reading on here, I am contemplating re-ripping to flac, but want to get it right before I start so that hopefully this will be the last-ish time I will have to do this.

[joz]

Imo always rip losslessly, flac is mine and quite a few others choices too.

[bob_m_54]

Imo always rip losslessly, flac is mine and quite a few others choices too.

Hoping not to infringe on the OP's topic too much, but it is probably of interest to him as well. Yes, now that HDD's are much cheaper for the capacity, that is sound advice. But when ripping to flac, and wanting to get it right this time, what are your thoughts in regards to my post above yours, on Replay Gain, and what compression levels to use?

 

ie from memory I think they use the term "quality" but it is more about compression level and ranges from 0 to 8, 8 being highest compression. It seems the major overhead is processor load on decompression and time when compressing. The final file size doesn't seem to be hugely affected in the difference between 0 and 8.

[Freedom]

Hoping not to infringe on the OP's topic too much, but it is probably of interest to him as well. Yes, now that HDD's are much cheaper for the capacity, that is sound advice. But when ripping to flac, and wanting to get it right this time, what are your thoughts in regards to my post above yours, on Replay Gain, and what compression levels to use?

 

ie from memory I think they use the term "quality" but it is more about compression level and ranges from 0 to 8, 8 being highest compression. It seems the major overhead is processor load on decompression and time when compressing. The final file size doesn't seem to be hugely affected in the difference between 0 and 8.

 

Google, or I think there is a 'flac' guide on their site! I followed the set up guide and all seems to be good!

[Freedom]

I recently re-ripped all my CDs (around 700) to 320kbps variable (originally ripped at 192kbps some years ago). Since then, after reading on here, I am contemplating re-ripping to flac, but want to get it right before I start so that hopefully this will be the last-ish time I will have to do this.

 

Yep, I did the same years ago when everyone was jumping on the 'mp3' bandwagon!

 

BUT, all was not lost because I have retained the mp3 versions which I stick onto flash drives to play in my car, or on my phone etc.

 

Sometimes flac or other lossless can be a real pain when you want to play the file on something more portable!

[bob_m_54]

Hi Surfpurple, yes, I have Googled, but I was after a few opinions of users who have had any positive or negative outcomes using both Replay Gain and compression levels. Like I said, you want to get it finally right, or as right as you can get it at the present time .

 

Yeah I will still keep the mp3 versions simply for using on USB sticks for the car stereo. Seeing as it's a 4WD that does go off-road into dirty dusty environments, I opted for a non mech drive model with dual USB ports. Again the problem there is that you need sound levelling so you don't get blasted out of your seat when a rather loud mp3 comes up (I generally have it set on random play. What I currently do is export the un-levelled mp3s to the thumb drive then apply audio levelling using my MP3 organiser MediaMonkey.

 

Apparently it's not the best way to do it, but for car audio it seems to be adequate. Also, although I know the stereo will play flac, I'm unsure if it can handle Replay Gain.

[gcgreg]

Firstly, as FLAC is lossless, anything you do can be changed later without re-ripping. At most you would need to run a batch convert process.

I've never played with gain levels, so can't help there at this stage.

As for compression level, I did all of mine at zero (which does not mean none, but minimum). I just now went and ripped a CD of 59 minutes, 592MB. The resultant folder is 447MB, so that's about 25% smaller.

Hope that helps.