tubularbells Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 Bi-amping in my future? Bought some replacement input cards for my amps that turns each amplifier into a 2 way crossover. Hmmm endless possibilities to go "one louder" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 So after some consideration im thinking there may be too much risk of screwing up the sound in attempting to replace the passive network JBL uses to crossover the bass/mid with the horn (@1khz). Even the official JBL active crossover keeps a fair amount of passive components in the chain which kinda makes me wonder whats the actual advantage then (see below) So what im thinking instead is using the low pass in the active to drive one channel and send it to the 15" thats currently passively crossed over @100hz and then run the other channel bypassed (i.e. full range) which will then drive the remaining 15" & horn. Reckon thats much better use of my power rather than using one channel of amplification exclusively for the horn that would probably only ever need 50w max of power. Any thoughts to this approach guys good, bad or ugly? @kelossus @44maloo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 When using the JBL 5235 crossover with the 4435 cards does it function as you are proposing? LF section actively handling <100hz and the HF section being fed to the passive network for remaining 15" and horn? This whole biamping idea is new to me and I'm not experienced enough to comment. I would rather run my speakers full-range but the 4350's don't have that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jakeyb77 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Do you have an original active crossover Doug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, kelossus said: When using the JBL 5235 crossover with the 4435 cards does it function as you are proposing? LF section actively handling <100hz and the HF section being fed to the passive network for remaining 15" and horn? This whole biamping idea is new to me and I'm not experienced enough to comment. I would rather run my speakers full-range but the 4350's don't have that option. Nope just separates the low/mids from the horn @1khz but depending on what you read the remaining passive bits still left in the parth still have a significant roll to play (i.e LC network compensates for the natural rolloff around 15khz & the big 20uf cap on the low/mids assists with additional roll-off). 10 minutes ago, jakeyb77 said: Do you have an original active crossover Doug? Nope dont own a JBL5235 active. Apparently one went for sale here recently and lasted about 1 minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jakeyb77 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, Tubularbells said: Nope dont own a JBL5235 active. Apparently one went for sale here recently and lasted about 1 minute I have a 5324A with the 4435 cards if you want to try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, jakeyb77 said: I have a 5324A with the 4435 cards if you want to try? Ohhh tempting but I'll need to redo my crossovers as ive currently tied both halves of the network together to a single pair of binding posts eliminating that utterly pathetic selector switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jakeyb77 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, Tubularbells said: Ohhh tempting but I'll need to redo my crossovers as ive currently tied both halves of the network together to a single pair of binding posts eliminating that utterly pathetic selector switch. No worries mate. It’s here anytime if you want to try one out. Always happy to repay a favour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44maloo Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Tubularbells said: So after some consideration im thinking there may be too much risk of screwing up the sound in attempting to replace the passive network JBL uses to crossover the bass/mid with the horn (@1khz). Even the official JBL active crossover keeps a fair amount of passive components in the chain which kinda makes me wonder whats the actual advantage then (see below) So what im thinking instead is using the low pass in the active to drive one channel and send it to the 15" thats currently passively crossed over @100hz and then run the other channel bypassed (i.e. full range) which will then drive the remaining 15" & horn. Reckon thats much better use of my power rather than using one channel of amplification exclusively for the horn that would probably only ever need 50w max of power. Any thoughts to this approach guys good, bad or ugly? @kelossus @44maloo Hey TB, i think this would a good case to just try what you have suggested, its looks like it will be ok. What's the main thing your trying to achieve? If it's using the power more wisely i'd try your idea. Passive components do waste power but high quality passive parts to my ears are simply more musical and engaging. My new JBL DD55000 Everest's have very costly parts well north of 10k and trust me it's simply incredible. While most people concentrate on Capacitors and i did , i also payed top $$$ for Inductors. People who have heard my Original DD55000 will be shocked at the Bass now. So if sound quality if your thing better Passive parts is the way to go. Some like Full Active and the only Full active system i've heard and liked is SGR active system simply brilliant. Hope this helped if not send me PM to discuss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 10 hours ago, 44maloo said: Hey TB, i think this would a good case to just try what you have suggested, its looks like it will be ok. What's the main thing your trying to achieve? If it's using the power more wisely i'd try your idea. Passive components do waste power but high quality passive parts to my ears are simply more musical and engaging. My new JBL DD55000 Everest's have very costly parts well north of 10k and trust me it's simply incredible. While most people concentrate on Capacitors and i did , i also payed top $$$ for Inductors. People who have heard my Original DD55000 will be shocked at the Bass now. So if sound quality if your thing better Passive parts is the way to go. Some like Full Active and the only Full active system i've heard and liked is SGR active system simply brilliant. Hope this helped if not send me PM to discuss. Yes im basically trying to use the power more wisely as bridging each amp yields approx. 1kw which is a tad too much for my purposes (along with the negative sonic impact bridging brings) so have only been using one channel from each amp so far leaving two thats doing nothing at the moment. This 2 way active input card im getting for the amps (refer previous posts) allows me to utilise them. Interesting comments re your crossovers too. I recall @knight2001dts banging on about them when he was over Rons. Ive upgraded mine to but on a far more economical scale which still utilises all JBL OEM inductors as I was concerned the drop in DCR a bigger and better inductor might impact the crossover points a little. Before: After: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44maloo Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Tubularbells said: Yes im basically trying to use the power more wisely as bridging each amp yields approx. 1kw which is a tad too much for my purposes (along with the negative sonic impact bridging brings) so have only been using one channel from each amp so far leaving two thats doing nothing at the moment. This 2 way active input card im getting for the amps (refer previous posts) allows me to utilise them. Interesting comments re your crossovers too. I recall @knight2001dts banging on about them when he was over Rons. Ive upgraded mine to but on a far more economical scale which still utilises all JBL OEM inductors as I was concerned the drop in DCR a bigger and better inductor might impact the crossover points a little. Before: After: If you use a better quality inductor same value, the lower DCR will result in better power to the 2234h. Although the 4435 inductors are a high value so the $$$ come into it. I used the 4435 monitors for twenty years and they are fantastic speakers just depends on how much money you want to spend, Greg Timbers recommendation in buy quality inductors and hear the results. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 More surgery being performed on my Ashly's with a complete makeover of the power supply doubling the capacitor bank from 30,000uf to 64,000uf along with upgrading all supply & speaker looms from 16AWG to 14AWG. Below is each amp with one channel installed whilst adjusting offset & bias. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 After a few final tweaks the amps are back into the church for an initial listen. What was supposed to be a brief test is rapidly turning into an marathon session. My god have these amps opened up! 1000w per channel has basically weaponized my listening room but the scary part is how clean is sounds when pushed. My ears are now the limiting factor... Whats also interesting is how quickly you begin to chew into those additional watts. Looking at my level meters theirs not a twitch until you crack open the volume past 9 o'clock and then there a rapid increase in power usage up until the max ive had it (approx 11 o'clock) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martykt Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tubularbells said: After a few final tweaks the amps are back into the church for an initial listen. What was supposed to be a brief test is rapidly turning into an marathon session. My god have these amps opened up! 1000w per channel has basically weaponized my listening room but the scary part is how clean is sounds when pushed. My ears are now the limiting factor... Whats also interesting is how quickly you begin to chew into those additional watts. Looking at my level meters theirs not a twitch until you crack open the volume past 9 o'clock and then there a rapid increase in power usage up until the max ive had it (approx 11 o'clock) Yikes, my ears are only good for my measly 24 watts per channel.... Do we need to start referring to you as "Eardrums of Steel" from now on TB... ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Martykt said: Yikes, my ears are only good for my measly 24 watts per channel.... Do we need to start referring to you as "Eardrums of Steel" from now on TB... ??? 8 years ago I was quite happy with 8w/ch (into my Omega's and Zu's) but for whatever reason my JBL's appear to be quite power hungry despite there 97dB efficiency rating. Suppose it really comes down to the amp/speaker match rather than the quoted numbers doesn't it. I bet your system isn't anemic when pushed a bit so really the take out is to listen rather than purely relying on specs which is a mistake i did in the past as you just never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martykt Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Tubularbells said: 8 years ago I was quite happy with 8w/ch (into my Omega's and Zu's) but for whatever reason my JBL's appear to be quite power hungry despite there 97dB efficiency rating. Suppose it really comes down to the amp/speaker match rather than the quoted numbers doesn't it. I bet your system isn't anemic when pushed a bit so really the take out is to listen rather than purely relying on specs which is a mistake i did in the past as you just never know. To be fair my speakers do have a legit 102dB efficiency rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) Minor update. New rack is now housing all metal record's and it appears his unholyness has been tapped on the shoulder in firey red approval....weird. Edited May 15, 2019 by Tubularbells 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gat474 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I see you’re going topless with the Modwright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, gat474 said: I see you’re going topless with the Modwright. Yep I am whilst I settle on tubes....PITFA to undo 50 screws every time you want to try new tubes so it will remaIn naked till I settle on 12AX7 & 12AU7's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gat474 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Keep me posted on what you choose. I’m running the supplied tubes in my phono section and will be looking to change at some stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 A mate of mine did a recent shoot of a topic of darkness and light thinking it would be perfect for the church and yes it was. Got print 1 of 5, just need a good spot to hang it ....Thanks Dave. (David Eades Phatography) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, Tubularbells said: A mate of mine did a recent shoot of a topic of darkness and light thinking it would be perfect for the church and yes it was. Got print 1 of 5, just need a good spot to hang it ....Thanks Dave. (David Eades Phatography) Check out Dark Ethereal or something like that on FB. Edit- linky- https://www.facebook.com/etherdarksthetic/ Edited July 2, 2019 by Darren69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemack Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Minor update. New rack is now housing all metal record's and it appears his unholyness has been tapped on the shoulder in firey red approval....weird. The room looks superb mate. I’ve got brickwork in my room and have been toying with covering it with stacked stone or similar but, after seeing your brick, I’m now reconsidering. With some redesigning to include timber tops on the brick, as well as some room treatment panels and paintwork, my little room should come up a treat with brickwork exposed. M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Something wicked this way comes.... Finally got around to re-capping the 5234A active crossover for my 4435's in which it was in dire need as there were a few incorrect values some dodgy tech had put in the past. All good now though. Was also going to "upgrade" the op amps but after much reading have decided to leave as is as it's just too risky and could end up screwing up the sound. Another thing im tossing up is whether to get rid off all the little spade connectors and solder directly as there's a ton of them. Also debating whether to bypass the tag strip on the back as i'll be using the TRS connector which swings of the tag strip making for a more direct signal path however on the other hand I tend to be a stickler for leaving vintage gear as stock as possible so some decisions still to be made. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 After a visit from the tube clergy @Red MacKay I've now seen the light with a pair of a Mullard 6SN7's replacing some CV181's in my Modwright. God damn the difference is incredible... 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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