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keyse1

is this true?

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Ah yes I see now, my bad

 

A lot of generalising and contradicting going on there.

I once read that the truth is contradictory

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I once read that the truth is contradictory

Whoever said that might have been lying. :D

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Perth seems very musically fertile.

Don't whether it's the isolation & lack of touring acts; the strong Folk/Country influence (the Mucky Duck Bush Band are still playing after decades); the influence of WAAPA, UWA and 6RTR-FM or just some really good music teachers; venues & record shops.  Maybe a bit of everything.

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 Like any other language, the rules and terms and structure are most readily absorbed by the young.

 

Found it.   No suprise, comprehension of music and musical taste is learnt

"The study also found that with practice, humans can learn to recognise the pitch of unfamiliar musical chords or instruments. Once able to do this, music they previously found unpleasant, or dissonant, becomes enjoyable. In summary, “you’re not going to understand music unless you make an effort,†Neil says."

 

The good news is it is used by socioeconomic groups to bind themselves together (O'Toole Standford 1999 ) which, for pop,  ulitmately breaks each phase of commercially driven homogenity.  At least until commercial interests assimilate it.

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Found it.   No suprise, comprehension of music and musical taste is learnt

"The study also found that with practice, humans can learn to recognise the pitch of unfamiliar musical chords or instruments. Once able to do this, music they previously found unpleasant, or dissonant, becomes enjoyable. In summary, “you’re not going to understand music unless you make an effort,†Neil says."

 

What an absolute load of.....

Recognising or "understanding" a pitch or chord doesn't magically make something you didn't like "pleasant".

And of course some people are born with more musical talent than others.

Self-taught musicians, sitting in their bedroom learning to play instruments all by themselves.

You either have "the feel" for music or you don't....and some coordination is always helpful of course.

How many famous musicians has there been who never learnt how to read music?

They just "know" how to play and teach themselves.

And rhythm....

A lot of people completely lack the ability to "clap along" to a beat.

You have it or you don't.

:unsure:

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What an absolute load of.....

Like to back up that opinion with something more solid?    Something along the lines of why Chinese Opera appeals to those who "just get it"?

 

Yes, there are tone deaf people and there are some who are just better at music but that was not the point.  The point is that music and it's appreciation appears to be a learnt, cultural phenomena.    At least according to the current research - have a look at the works of, for example, McLachlan, Marco and Wilson at the     Melbourne School of Psychological Sciences, The University of Melbourne, Melbourne, VIC, Australia

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Like to back up that opinion with something more solid?   

Ok, how about people like what they like regardless of whether they "understand" (whatver that means) it or not.?

From the article:

"Neil and his team took a group of 66 volunteers"

Wow, extensive research...

"played each of them a range of musical chords. Volunteers were asked to identify the pitch of a note in the chords and rate how unpleasant or harsh they found each chord."

Ok so they were asked to identify the pitch (not neccessary for enjoying music) and rate whether they liked it (fair enough)

"When a volunteer got the pitch of a note wrong, they were more likely to find the chord harsh-sounding."

What?

So by that logic, nobody has the right to dislike music, simply because they don't know what the pitch or note is called?

I can't read music

I don't know a C from an E when I hear it, but I sure as hell know what I DON'T like when it comes to note/chord progressions, and someone telling me that "that note was a C flat" sure as hell ain't gonna change that,

If it hurts my ears it hurts my ears regardless if it's called C, D or George.

Something along the lines of why Chinese Opera appeals to those who "just get it"?

Can't say I've ever heard any Chinese opera but I'll gladly listen to some and see what I think of it based on my non-existent note/pitch knowledge

:)

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"that note was a C flat

C Flat? ;):P:)

 

Cheers,

Leigh 

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C Flat? ;):P:)

 

Cheers,

Leigh

Exactly

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Ok, how about people like what they like regardless of whether they "understand" (whatver that means) it or not.?

 

Beyond basic evolutional drives, (e.g. we universally like food & bonking and think small children are "cute") people like what they like because they have learnt (been conditioned) to like it.  Whether they conciously are aware of that is irrelevant.

 

Education is a form of directed conditioning which, if done well, also improves understanding and self awareness.

 

Music is currently understood (and I'm too lazy to look up some cites) to be both evolutionary, with us as a species singing long before we talked, and socially conditioned.  If you've read "1984' you will understand the fundemental interelationship between vocabulary and thought.  Specicially, the ability to conceptualise.  This applies equally to musical forms.  Now musical education (both formal and informal, via exposure) will allow you to make links (concious or unconcious) between genres/forms and will change (broaden, mostly) your tastes. 

 

But it won't break associations between certain music and happy, formative periods of your life.  Nor is it guaranteed to pull you out of the genres associated with your socioeconomic groupings.  And in that sense you will continue to "like what you like" and, in that context,  I would agree with the statementHowever what that is is true only now - it will change as (if) we are exposed to different auditory environments. And thus we can influence what it is that we like.

 

I hope that explains what I'm trying to say a bit better - but my writing style is a result of my life-long conditioning (which I am trying to work on).

 

You raise some reasonable questions about the study I referenced and I suggest you have a look at the abstracts (at least) of subsequent work.  

Edited by thoglette

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