loki65 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Was the DEQX used with an existing pre amp or instead of ? I notice alot of people us it with digital, any use them with vinyl? Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Listener Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I know that Paul gave careful consideration to the directivity match between the TD18 and the PSE 144 in the design. Have you determined what effect the additional driver has caused? You mean via calculation or direct measurement comparison? No. But I know what it sounded like before and I prefer after. That is enough for me. Others can knock themselves out with numbers if they like. Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Listener Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Was the DEQX used with an existing pre amp or instead of ? I notice alot of people us it with digital, any use them with vinyl? Cheers Dave No separate pre-amp just the HDP 4. I have lent my DEQX to someone with an all analogue vinyl rig. There were issues with the lack of gain of the phono stage but it was well received. However there is probably a cultural barrier that people with analogue systems need to cross before letting a digital despot like the DEQX into the house. Otherwise I see no reason for not using a DEQX in a vinyl rig. Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I am wary of quoting others but I seem to recall Alan was advocating measuring from the back of the speaker which caused a bit of controversy, however my recollection may be faulty so send Alan an e-mail to confirm it. Steven. Alan's suggestion was to measure any dipole speaker outside with nothing behind for a long way so the back wave was not captured in the measurement. If it's a planar speaker then measure far enough in front to avoid panel effects.... .....of course achieving the above is not very easy! I know that Paul gave careful consideration to the directivity match between the TD18 and the PSE 144 in the design. Have you determined what effect the additional driver has caused? @@Paul Spencer can comment further, but using the TD18 with the PSE was not about matching directivity between them, as the horn is about 80 degrees or so and the TD18 is much wider at 350Hz - 375Hz (I calculated ka to be about 1.25 at 350Hz with the TD18). Was the DEQX used with an existing pre amp or instead of ? I notice alot of people us it with digital, any use them with vinyl? Cheers Dave Alan provided an interesting history of DEQX at Jiri's place on Saturday. The original PDC 2.6 was never meant as a domestic end game audiophile solution, but rather a prototyping solution for OEM speaker manufacturers to work with. DIY guys got hold of it and liked it for triamping, so many got used in this manner. The HDP3 was audiophile grade in the digital and DAC part, but not top end in the analog input section. The HDP4 and 5 are audiophile grade throughout, so if looking to use a vinyl input with DEQX, the HDP4 or 5 would be the best approach. I don't run vinyl in my rig. cheers Mike ps : it was a great 2 days - thanks again Jiri, Steven and Alan - I learned a bunch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Was the DEQX used with an existing pre amp or instead of ? I notice alot of people us it with digital, any use them with vinyl? Cheers Dave Dave, it is like a high end pre that also does other stuff great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Listener Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Mike, thank-you for remembering and correcting my mistake. I should learn to keep my typing finger away from the keyboard sometimes.... Listener, on 03 Dec 2015 - 5:04 PM, said: I am wary of quoting others but I seem to recall Alan was advocating measuring from the back of the speaker which caused a bit of controversy, however my recollection may be faulty so send Alan an e-mail to confirm it. Steven. Alan's suggestion was to measure any dipole speaker outside with nothing behind for a long way so the back wave was not captured in the measurement. If it's a planar speaker then measure far enough in front to avoid panel effects.... .....of course achieving the above is not very easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki65 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 @Listener @@almikel @@Darren69 thanks for the feedback. Looks like the DEQX might by one to put on the short list to look into a bit more. Cheers Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Spencer Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 @@Paul Spencer can comment further, but using the TD18 with the PSE was not about matching directivity between them, as the horn is about 80 degrees or so and the TD18 is much wider at 350Hz - 375Hz (I calculated ka to be about 1.25 at 350Hz with the TD18). Mike is right - matching dispersion was not the primary consideration. Around the crossover point of 350 Hz we are nearing a region where modal resonances and boundary interaction dominate. The size of the woofer has no significant effect here - whether we are using a 5" woofer or an 18" woofer, both will be much wider in dispersion than PSE-144, which has a beamwidth of 80 degrees here. An 18" woofer will have a much wider beam width. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Thanks for posting the images Jiri. A couple of observations.... From 2kHz to approx 16kHz (3 octaves) this graph shows the expected 1st order (6dB/octave) low pass response expected from the horn. As Paul has previously suggested, a decent quality 2.2uF cap in series with the tweeter would "tilt" this response to "flat with bumps", and the DEQX would then only need to deal with the "bumps". An added advantage is providing some protection for the CD tweeter when connected directly to power amps. Definitely something I'm going to try (just wish I had Steven's brother in law with the scaffolding!). The graph above shows the "power user" knowledge that Alan brings, with the "stepped" adjustment in the top end - I had no idea this existed - for DEQX owners, just use the "add point" button during the "Calibrate Speaker" process similar to adding PEQ bands in the "Equaliser" tab Alan chose not to correct the tweeter much beyond 12kHz or so given the rolloff - just my opinion, but if the 6dB/octave tilt was removed first (using a series cap), you could easily smoothly DEQX correct out to 19kHz or so where the response falls off a cliff. Again thanks to Alan, Jiri and Steven. Very jealous of Steven with a personally "Alan" tweaked double DEQX solution! cheers Mike ps: I'm sure many will get lot's of value from Alan's road-trip (Melbourne yesterday and today I understand). As a current DEQX user, I learnt heaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Hi Mike I have tried the Mundorf caps before on the PSE and it did change the rolls of little bit nevertheless I think this whole conversation is taking wrong direction. Steve and I spend much time ( focus ) on 4 way trying to use different drivers and configuration With the extra 6†was just another way and it worked. I have had 3 way setup using all kind of different drivers with PSE for a while and I consider my setup to be very good. To me the PSE is still one of the best product out there I have heard . So in 3 way using AE or 4 way using 8â€or 4way using 2 sets of 18/15 it all comes to personal preference Some might give more dynamic range upper fre. some might do more on the bottom. The main thing is that DEQX is really awesome tool to implements all kind of variation and if use correctly the result can be very rewarding. In regards PSE I consider myself to be lucky and own a pair as it does sound really impressive Jiri 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hochopeper Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 A bit bummed that I missed out on the fun here I had home duties to attend to (newborn). Thanks guys for writing it up, interesting reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 A bit bummed that I missed out on the fun here I had home duties to attend to (newborn). Thanks guys for writing it up, interesting reading! Lol - congrats Chris on the new bub - you'll be a bit busy for a while! Sorry you missed it - I was hoping to catch up. As an extended 2 day GTG it was the best EVA !!!! - just saying cheers Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Hi Mike I have tried the Mundorf caps before on the PSE and it did change the rolls of little bit nevertheless Hi Jiri, I should have known you'd tried the Cap thing already - you're saying it didn't change that 6dB roll-off much? Have you got any graphs you can post with the cap with the PSEs? cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) Is this what you are after, Mike ? Raw test with cap Edited December 8, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Sorry if slightly off topic, but enjoying the first week with my operational PSE144 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Is this what you are after, Mike ? Raw test with cap Thanks Matt, is that an indoor measurement? - looks too jaggy for outdoors. Useful data, and the scale is great - looks like an easier job for a DEQX to fix, and mostly "cut" above 10kHz Sorry if slightly off topic, but enjoying the first week with my operational PSE144 I love my PSE's - well done getting them up and running! Sit back and enjoy! cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Thanks Matt, is that an indoor measurement? - looks too jaggy for outdoors. Useful data, and the scale is great - looks like an easier job for a DEQX to fix, and mostly "cut" above 10kHz I love my PSE's - well done getting them up and running! Sit back and enjoy! cheers Mike No probs, yes it is an indoor mic in mouth type test, Paul mentioned the caps smooth the response a bit, sadly the Tassie weather put a stop to outside measurements. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/75988-a-battery-based-audiophile-story/page-24 post 702. Paul and I were a bit sad we could not make the DEQX Demonstrations, he is a lovely guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradC Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Would someone be able to summarise what they learnt about taking measurements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niss_man Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Would someone be able to summarise what they learnt about taking measurements? If possible, always do measurements outside. If possible, lift the speaker as high as possible to remove ground reflections. A good measurement is the best foundation for good sound. Now if only there were some good anechoic chambers nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 If possible, always do measurements outside. If possible, lift the speaker as high as possible to remove ground reflections. If doing a speaker measurement, well then yes. If doing a room measurement, well then no, you'll want to do it in your room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradC Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Adelaide uni mechanical engineering department has a good anechoic chamber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hochopeper Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Adelaide uni mechanical engineering department has a good anechoic chamber Bit of a hike for some of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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