Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I had a good chat with Marc the other day & we both agreed that some good quality low noise 5v, 9v & 12v locally produced power supplies would go down well. I have already done quite a bit work in this area & have built several 12v Intel NUC psu's which customers were most impressed with. I know there are lots of low priced units on EBay but they generally use low quality parts especially in the filter cap, diode area & the mains input voltage is often a bit low ie. 220v. There are some great units coming out of the US but with our plummeting dollar & high postal cost don't represent good value. What I am proposing is two models & both will be powered by external fully AUS approved 240v AC transformers. I love using external AC supplies as I then have full control over rectification filter cap choice etc.. OK so a 5v or 9v (pick voltage on order) at about 2A & a 12v unit at 2.5A. I am limited to these maximum currents by the external transformer choice, trying to keep everything legal & approved. I know you guys like to see massive current ratings but even a mini itx MB only draws about one amp after initial start up surge. I find diode & capacitor choice has a much bigger effect on sonic qualities than an outright current rating. Case style will be the same as the Klein DAC series as I have this well sorted now. Canadian manufactured Hammond extruded aluminium case with slide in PCB & zero internal wiring. I will be using high spec very low noise regulators. That give great protection & will make them short circuit proof. Noise levels from these are now the same as the boutique super regs that are so popular. Marc also suggested the possibility of a DIY version ie populated board only which could be fitted into a custom server case. Lots to think about & any feed back much appreciated. 17 Link to post Share on other sites
christosd 750 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Is there enough room in the box for 2 x selectable dc outputs? Let's face it, some of us have more than one dc toy! One for SBT, another for usb power for/or another source/server/dac? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Rab of Everest 532 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Great idea Clay. It might help if you can provide some measurements for comparison with commercially available units (in particular HDPlex, HS-2 and the like). Richard Link to post Share on other sites
Jventer 1,672 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) Great news. I was lucky to have member @AJ build me one a couple of years ago with dual output. He is in New Zealand now so that is not available AFAIK. With the US$ where it is I think it is an excellent idea. We need Australian products for ourself. My wishlist: Choices in enclosure - especially if you are going down the DIY route (Which may or may not be a good business decision?) Also if someone has a Nuc, those of us with OCD want the boxes looking the same - for example: the iFi products and the Cyrus products. One output is not enough. Maybe have a base model with only one output, but I agree with @@christosd that many of us want to power more than one toy. E.g. usb/spdif, squeezebox touch, server/pc, so I think there is demand for models with more than one output. @@Chanh and @@Tasso what are your comments based on your experiences with music servers? Not sure how cabling works with all the different connection options out there? Edited September 12, 2015 by Jventer 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jventer 1,672 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Great idea Clay. It might help if you can provide some measurements for comparison with commercially available units (in particular HDPlex, HS-2 and the like). Richard Agree Link to post Share on other sites
~Spyne~ 1,013 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Great idea. I've got a HDPlex unit at the moment and the flexibility of multiple outputs is fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hensa Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Excellent idea - I've often drawn a blank looking locally for a decent power supply. A couple of questions if I may: Are you talking about AC to DC power supplies or AC to AC? Will there be options with respect to the output connector as these can come in different sizes? Any possibility of a 24VDC model as this is what I'm looking for for my phono stage? Thanks Clay. Link to post Share on other sites
Chanh 1,732 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 What I am proposing is two models & both will be powered by external fully AUS approved 240v AC transformers. I love using external AC supplies as I then have full control over rectification filter cap choice etc.. OK so a 5v or 9v (pick voltage on order) at about 2A & a 12v unit at 2.5A..... Marc also suggested the possibility of a DIY version ie populated board only which could be fitted into a custom server case. Lots to think about & any feed back much appreciated. Great initiative! I concur that quality diodes and electrolytic are most critical, follow by low noise/ripple regulator(s). Do you have a preliminary schematic in mind? Lastly, what is your estimate cost of the final 12VDC unit? Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) OK, multiply outputs. 5v & 9v in the one box is no problem but adding 12v as well gets a bit tricky. The HDPlex has a multi tapped power transformer. I don't have the luxury & for me to put a 240v transformer in a case I would need C tick & safety approval, big dollars. Also the total current draw can only be what the transformer is rated to. For the 5v + 9v supply I would be using a 10v 2.4A external transformer (same as Klein DAC) so the total current output current available would be 2.4A. It sounds like all this this could be quite popular so I could certainly have a range of models including a multi voltage ones. Initially I was thinking the main applications would be - DIY music servers using ARM cored boards eg. Rasberry Pi, logitech Squeezeboxs, USB Regens, DAC's & NUCs but I may have to rethink this. Noise levels. I was thinking of using say a SOTA low noise reg eg TPS7A4700 (noise 4uVrms 10hz - 100khz) & beefing up the current output to get 2 - 3 Amps. I will have a good look at the noise levels of popular PSU's out there & make sure mine have similar or lower levels. re question on output. All supplies will run from external AC transformers (240 v AC in) & output DC only voltages. At this stage no 24v output versions. PS Hi Chanh, good to hear from you. Yes I do have a folder with a few favourite schematics. I will post a rough overview once I decide which one to use. I have a nice new 100 mhz Techtronics Scope so I can see results better now. pricing on 12 v unit, I have done a few of those before & they sold for $350. I will probably need to go through all the costing again & will do an update shortly. Edited September 9, 2015 by Gieseler Audio 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Conch 347 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Great idea Clay 9v + 12v combo unit would be awesome for my pc / sotm card build. Count me in mate! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TP1 2,006 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Great news. I was lucky to have member @AJ build me one a couple of years ago with dual output. He is in New Zealand now so that is not available AFAIK. With the US$ where it is I think it is an excellent idea. We need Australian products for ourself. My wishlist: Choices in enclosure - especially if you are going down the DIY route (Which may or may not be a good business decision?) Also if someone has a Nuc, those of us with OCD want the boxes looking the same - for example: the iFi products and the Cyrus products. One output is not enough. Maybe have a base model with only one output, but I agree with @@christosd 2 that many of us want to power more than one toy. E.g. usb/spdif, squeezebox touch, server/pc, so I think there is demand for models woth more than one output. @@Chanh and @@Tasso what are your comments based on your experiences with music servers? Not sure how cabling works with all the different connection options out there? The option for multiple voltage output will be most useful as would multiple outputs. Probably don't need more than 2 outputs but voltage selection for each would be very nice. If the outputs used good quality connectors that are easy to get, building different power cables for different applications will be relatively easy. Possibly should consider an unregulated option to connect with with ATX style power interfaces such as HDPLEX or generic pico adapter. These provide their own regulation and perhaps cost and performance advantages could be gained with this approach. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Juicester 1,377 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hi Clay. I've got a Keces DC116 - which with current exchange rates probably costs a touch over $500. It's dual power - 5v and 9v; both at 2A. If you can price your units under the $400 mark - my guess is that you would move a lot of them. The 5v and 9v model is perfect for powering a Squeezebox Touch and a Remedy reclocker (both of which I own). Chris 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Bill125812 3,329 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hi Clay Great idea. Would it make a noticeable difference on the Klein SE DAC Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
Batty 5,030 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Any chance of a +/-12v supply for us with phono stages that love clean + and - rails? Link to post Share on other sites
Willco 1,918 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Great move I reckon--Pity no 24V 2/3A units though--I use that and have others ask me where to buy Plenty of 2/3motor TT's that need that version to get rid of the Cheap Chinese Wall warts supplied In time hopefully Good one guys! Willco Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Bill - the Klein DAC's need AC input & these new supplies will be DC output so not suitable. The Klein has a similar power supply to these that is build into the DAC anyway. Willco - I can get a suitable external 24V AC transformer so a 24v DC output supply is definitely workable, I will look into it as well. Regards Clay 1 Link to post Share on other sites
thewaves 273 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I was about to buy a Keces but will hold off for one of these. Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 OK I have taken some DC current measurements on my music server. It is using a Jetway mini itx M/B, Sotm PCI USB card, WD 3.5" HD & a DVD rom drive. As expected there was a bit of a surge at startup & finally settled down at about 1.6A This is good news as it means the Dai-1chi 2.5A 16v AC external transformer I was planning on using should be fine with a bit of current reserve. Changing to a SSHD & removing the DVD rom drive reduces current drain more as well. Based on this the biggest model in my new power supply range would have, 12v + 12v + 9v (maybe a optional 5v as well) So on a average mini itx server build you will have 12v to go into the DC M/B connection & then 12v or 9V depending in which Sotum card & an optional 5v? for the Paul Pang USB card. What do you think? any other suggestions? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Hi Batty, yes + & - 12v is no problem as that is what the Klein uses & I have that well sorted. Depending on the current drain it might be possible to use the Shunt version that the SE Klein uses. Wow, did not realise how popular good low noise power supplies would be. Careful - this may slow down Klein production! Edited September 12, 2015 by Gieseler Audio 1 Link to post Share on other sites
henry218 1,355 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Hi Batty, yes + & - 12v is no problem as that is what the Klein uses & I have that well sorted. Depending on the current drain it might be possible to use the Shunt version that the SE Klein uses. Wow, did not realise how popular good low noise power supplies would be. Careful - this may slow down Klein production! i think everyone wants to have a good computer based media server, thats include me.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Rab of Everest 532 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Hi Clay, are you able to share any details of the mods to the SOTM board? Link to post Share on other sites
Ancientflatulence 1,572 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 What do I think? .................. I think you should have posted this a week ago .............. before I ordered the HDPLEX ..................... :( ............ :) Link to post Share on other sites
BioBrian 704 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Very timely for me too! Wouldn't a nice (read sexy) vented box with heatsinks be a good idea, even at low current outputs? For those in the tropics of course - we others would just have to stare glassily at it and just know how cool it is. Link to post Share on other sites
skippy124 1,182 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Hi, Good project! Re the 16v 2.5A AC supply, the maximum DC load current available will be 1.5 amps. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Hi Rab, Sotm mods as follows. ​Replace all the 470uf 16v (9x) generic electros with Panasonic FM series http://au.element14.com/panasonic-electronic-components/eeu-fm1c471l/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitor/dp/1219462 I would have liked something better but not enough room. Replace the 3 X 1uf film caps, 5 mm pin pitch so no drop in polypropylene but at least these are only 7.5 pitch http://au.element14.com/panasonic-electronic-components/ecw-fd2w105j4/film-capacitor-1uf-450v-5-radial/dp/2413398 Bit messy for me though so I would just go with a good Wima polyester http://au.element14.com/wima/mks2c041001f00kss/cap-film-pet-1uf-63v-rad/dp/1006040 Now the really good part! Replace one of the USB sockets with a Wurth Electronics filtered types. http://au.element14.com/wurth-elektronik/8492121/conn-usb-2-0-a-w-esd-emi-filter/dp/2442757 This is like adding a jitter buster but only costs $17 Now the credit for these tips must go to Tam Nguyen from the building the ideal(ish) Music server thread. How much better does it sound? Well I haven't had time to fully evaluate it yet as I only did it this morning. John, thanks for the current rating tip, I will do some real world testing next week on that external transformer. cheers Clay Edited September 12, 2015 by Gieseler Audio 4 Link to post Share on other sites
tuyen 686 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Hi Clay, Registering my interest in a +/-12v and +5v dc supply. ~2-3A would be good. Would like to use it for a Najda DSP module. Could also use it for a miniITX/ppa usb card setup. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Hey just found this http://www.tortech.com.au/power-supply-australia/ac-power-supply/Input-240v-50hz-output-15v-ac-5amp-ac-power-supply 15 v 5A AC output, looks like it would do the job nicely where you need a bit more current. Edited September 12, 2015 by Gieseler Audio Link to post Share on other sites
thathifiguy 710 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 If you were to design an 18V, 1000mA unit, I'd be keenly interested! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites
Suopermanni 251 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Just thought I'd be the first to ask a standard newbie question but what exactly is the purpose of these low-noise power supplies and what do they go with? Link to post Share on other sites
Jventer 1,672 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Just thought I'd be the first to ask a standard newbie question but what exactly is the purpose of these low-noise power supplies and what do they go with? I cant tell you the technical terms, but the theory is that the power you feed your equipment with has an influence on the sound.. Computers were not designed for music, so by improving a few things in there it gets better. These power supplies can power a dac, or a computer and or parts thereof, a hard disc, a usb/spdif converter, a music server etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bhobba 1,061 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Just thought I'd be the first to ask a standard newbie question but what exactly is the purpose of these low-noise power supplies and what do they go with? I have and have had a number of Clays supplies that I use/used for various things. Mostly its to replace switching mode supplies. You stick such a supply on a scope, and I have done this at Clays shop where he has the proper test gear, and its full of high frequency hash. That gets down inside equipment and radiates about causing problems. 1. I used it on a Chord Cute DAC - it lifts it to another level. People have posted its then as good their more expensive DAC's but at a much cheaper cost. I haven't done that comparison but can confirm its a definite step up. 2 Used on my Off-Ramp. The switching mode power supply supplied produces horrid hash (it was the one I tested at Clays) - and the maker Steve Nugent recognises a linear supply is much better, and will supply his dynamo supply for $769US. Clays supply is much cheaper than the base price of $769 plus you don't have our bad exchange rate, importing issues and shipping which makes it even more expensive. I got him to make me one - it was significantly better with it for a much cheaper price. 3. The supply for a NUC computer as a music server. Clay makes a full on music server but a simple NUC with a good supply is nearly as good - at a much cheaper price. Its what I use as a server when I used a computer. I am moving to my Oppo 105 with Tidal, but having heard the difference between the NUC and a full on server simply couldn't justify the extra cost. Thanks Bill Edited September 13, 2015 by bhobba 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Suopermanni 251 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Ahhh, I see. Thank you Jventer and bhobba! I might be interested in getting one, depending on what DACs it would be compatible with. Link to post Share on other sites
Administrators Marc 12,460 Posted September 15, 2015 Administrators Share Posted September 15, 2015 Well you know I'm interested Clay! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
gypr1961 138 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Ill be chasing at least a couple of these as well Link to post Share on other sites
muznuts 359 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 for the less technically minded of us here ie. me, is there a way to work out what voltage model i would need for my dac Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Hi Murray, are you talking about the LM502ca? That cannot be run from a seperate power supply. Wow, nice looking DAC. Link to post Share on other sites
zydeco 95 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Very interested. [How, Clay,do you think the 12V will work vs. Choke-filtered PSU that seem to be well-regarded for music PC?] Link to post Share on other sites
muznuts 359 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Hi Murray, are you talking about the LM502ca? That cannot be run from a seperate power supply. Wow, nice looking DAC. Hi Clay, Thanks for the reply, yes I was talking about that dac, well that was a short lived upgrade path :-) Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Hi zydeco, the choke design that Chanh showed us is very nice & will probably sound better than even the best regulated designs. It will cost considerable more though. Hammond chokes from the US plus a Hashimoto transformer from Japan & Mundorf capacitors from Germany, brilliant combination. A bit like Grange I suppose, it you want the best but it's going to cost big time. My power supply design is far more down to earth but is well engineered with good quality components & a big step up from the Chinese EBay stuff. I have found some very nice regulators from Japan & after a week of R&D & some new techniques I'm very happy with the results. They will stack up well against the imported opposition, match performance & come with a local two year warranty. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
acg 2,646 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Hi zydeco, the choke design that Chanh showed us is very nice & will probably sound better than even the best regulated designs. It will cost considerable more though. Hammond chokes from the US plus a Hashimoto transformer from Japan & Mundorf capacitors from Germany, brilliant combination. A bit like Grange I suppose, it you want the best but it's going to cost big time. My power supply design is far more down to earth but is well engineered with good quality components & a big step up from the Chinese EBay stuff. I have found some very nice regulators from Japan & after a week of R&D & some new techniques I'm very happy with the results. They will stack up well against the imported opposition, match performance & come with a local two year warranty. The Hammond chokes are just cheapy run-of-the-mill production line transformers. You could get better ones (that cost more of course) in Oz. I am not familiar with the Hashimotos, but I reckon you could get comparable quality in this country as well. As for caps, I would almost bet that a larger electrolytic would sound better in this application than a smaller film or paper cap like the Mundorfs. But still, no easy electrical approval which makes things difficult if you are selling these supplies Clay. Parts cost alone would be about $400 but you would be doing it with mostly Australian parts and will benefit by not having to be too concerned about the crappy dollar conversion at the moment. By the way Clay, I like your initiative here with these supplies. I think there is a good market for them. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
.thumb.JPG.3f8109330da93320c3dfc805e02286be.JPG)
Recommended Posts