jrivask Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Hello all, I've recently replaced all my RCA interconnects for some custom made I've ordered at Factory Sound Melbourne. They are made of Canare GS-6 cable with Neutrik Rean NYS373 gold plated plugs. One is 3 meters long and the other two just of 1.25 meters each. Overall I'm absolutely satisfied with the cables, first on cost and quality and more importantly on how they performed. They have a very detailed, natural/dark presentation, and I think they rolled off just a bit the highs which I like. But my question is in regards the capacitance of the actual cable. Let me start by saying I don't know anything about electronics and how components interact with each other, all I know is that I like what I heard. Looking on the internet I came to a website that claimed this cable ( which is meant to be for electric guitars) has a very high capacitance, one of the highest at 49 pF/ft. In another site someone commented that RCA interconnects should have a very LOW capacitance otherwise funny things may happens to the amplifier... So can someone first explain what capacitance means and does? Is it recommended low capacitance for RCA interconnects? Or this ones are Ok? As I said I'm quite impressed with how they sound so I hope they'll not do any harm to my amp. Thanks! Edited August 21, 2015 by jrivask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony John Colbert Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) 49 pf/ft is high-ish, some interconnects have more, IIRC the wireworld eclipse cables are about 300pf for a 1meter interconnect, so about 80ish pf/ft. 49 per ft shouldnt be problematic for line level stuff, Does matter with Moving Magnet cartridges into phono stages. The blue jeans lc-1 cables are at the other end, very low capacitance 12.2 pf/ft Edited August 21, 2015 by colby1970 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) GS-6 has a typical capacitance for the type of cable that it is, namely a screened audio cable. Capacitance is a function of the outside area of the inner conductor, the inside area of the outer conductor, the spacing between the conductors and the dialectric constant of the insulation. The first three properties will be the same for ALL cables of the same physical dimensions regardless of brand, and dialectric constants for typical used insulations (PVC, PE and PTFE) of the same order as each other (PVC is the worst). Thinner inner insulation will lead to higher capacitance. Foamed insulation will lead to lower capacitance. However foamed insulation does not have mechanically integrity and introduces other problems, including potentially microphonics. Less than 100% screen coverage will give less capacitance, at the expense of lower noise immunity for the cable. GS-6 is designed for EXTREMELY LOW microphonics and VERY HIGH noise immunity compared to other screened audio cables. That makes it particularly suitable for audiophile grade interconnects and for low level signals, especially moving magnet cartridges on turntable. GS-6 is very low loss (low resistance), making it even suitable for short loudspeaker cables, with all of the benefits of a coaxial cable. Capacitance in a cable forms one leg of a low pass filter that attenuates high frequencies. The other factors are the source impedance (which is a function of the design of the audio source device, and the cable inductance (which for coax interconnects is very low and inconsequential for this application). Canare GS-6 has a capacitance of 160pF per meter. A typical consumer audio source has an output impedance of 1,000 ohms or less (professional audio equipment is usually around 50 ohms). We can work out how many meters of cable would be required to attenuate from a corner frequency of, say, 200kHz by using a formula. This would mean that 100kHz is affected by less than 1dB, far enough above audio frequencies to disregard the affect on audio in the cable. The formula for the corner frequency is fc=1 ÷ 2πRC. We set fc=200kHz, and R=1000. So by manipulating the formula we can calculate the amount of capacitance needed to roll off at 200kHz. 1/C=2πRfc, or C = 1 ÷ 2πRfc, = 1 / 2 x 3.1416 x 1,000 x 200,000 = ~.000,000,000,8 farads, or 800 picofarads. Therefore you can safely run 800pF ÷ 160pf per meter = 5 meters of GS-4 interconnects with typical domestic spec audio equipment, for a corner frequency of 200 kHz, which is about ten times higher than the audio band upper limit. (Someone please check my maths ) If you have decent gear with 50 ohm output impedance, the length becomes 125 meters. In reality, you could double these lengths and not notice - it would make about 0.1dB difference at 20kHz. Canare GS-6 was designed for use in extreme EMI environments - like performance spaces surrounded by megawatts of dimmed lighting - for very weak signals (guitar pickups similar in output to phono pickups) and not to be affected by handling noise (microphonics), yet still be very flexible and non-kinking. These make it absolutely ideal for audiophile applications, where cables typically run alongside a mess of electrical cables. Even better IMHO than the quite good REAN (Neutrik) RCAs are Canare's own purpose made RCAPs for GS-6, which require special crimp tools to install. Crimp connections have superior screening, pull strength and long life due to the exclusion of oxygen in the crimp connection joins. When a cable manufacturer wants lower capacitance it is generally achieved by using unshielded cables. Why anyone would want to listen to music contaminated with EMI, hum and buzz is beyond me, but lots of people do and lots of cable manufacturers make unscreened or poorly screened cables. Edited August 23, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) To answer the second part of you question, a competently designed amplifier will not be affected by the small amount of capacitance in a signal cable. Low capacitance might be important for low grade equipment and / or long cable runs, but it is generally inconsequential for most real world domestic situations with competently designed equipment. There is one exception, which is moving magnet pickup cartridges. MM cartridges have relatively low output impedance of 400 - 1000 ohms, but being a signal generator based on a coil they have series inductance as well. This inductance interacts with the load capacitance 'seen' by the pickup, which is the combined capacitance of the tonearm wiring (~50pF), the interconnects (~100-200pF) and the input of the phono stage (~150 pF). The combined effect of the MM's 'load' capacitance and source inductance is a peak in the high frequencies with a roll-off above. You want to make sure this occurs above the audio range where it doesn't mater so much. To achieve this, most cartridge manufacturers recommend an ideal range for the load capacitance that should not be exceeded. In the example above, the total capacitance is in the range 300-350pF. That would be fine for almost all cartridges. If, however, you cartridge recommends a maximum capacitance load of, say, 250pF, then you will need to find interconnects that have only 50pF capacitance. They will mostly likely be short, made with foamed PE dialectric and have less than 100% screen cover, so then you need to hope you don't get hum and buzz pickup... Edited August 21, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrivask Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) GS-6 has a typical capacitance for the type of cable that it is, namely a screened audio cable. Capacitance is a function of the outside area of the inner conductor, the inside area of the outer conductor, the spacing between the conductors and the dialectric constant of the insulation. The first three properties will be the same for ALL cables of the same physical dimensions regardless of brand, and dialectric constants for typical used insulations (PVC, PE and PTFE) of the same order as each other (PVC is the worst). Thinner inner insulation will lead to higher capacitance. Foamed insulation will lead to lower capacitance. However foamed insulation does not have mechanically integrity and introduces other problems, including potentially microphonics. Less than 100% screen coverage will give less capacitance, at the expense of lower noise immunity for the cable. GS-6 is designed for EXTREMELY LOW microphonics and VERY HIGH noise immunity compared to other screened audio cables. That makes it particularly suitable for audiophile grade interconnects and for low level signals, especially moving magnet cartridges on turntable. GS-6 is very low loss (low resistance), making it even suitable for short loudspeaker cables, with all of the benefits of a coaxial cable. Capacitance in a cable forms one leg of a low pass filter that attenuates high frequencies. The other factors are the source impedance (which is a function of the design of the audio source device, and the cable inductance (which for coax interconnects is very low and inconsequential for this application). Canare GS-6 has a capacitance of 160pF per meter. A typical consumer audio source has an output impedance of 1,000 ohms or less (professional audio equipment is usually around 50 ohms). We can work out how many meters of cable would be required to attenuate from a corner frequency of, say, 200kHz by using a formula. This would mean that 100kHz is affected by less than 1dB, far enough above audio frequencies to disregard the affect on audio in the cable. The formula for the corner frequency is fc=1 ÷ 2πRC. We set fc=200kHz, and R=1000. So by manipulating the formula we can calculate the amount of capacitance needed to roll off at 200kHz. 1/C=2πRfc, or C = 1 ÷ 2πRfc, = 1 / 2 x 3.1416 x 1,000 x 200,000 = ~.000,000,000,8 farads, or 800 picofarads. Therefore you can safely run 800pF ÷ 160pf per meter = 5 meters of GS-4 interconnects with typical domestic spec audio equipment, for a corner frequency of 200 kHz, which is about ten times higher than the audio band upper limit. (Someone please check my maths ) If you have decent gear with 50 ohm output impedance, the length becomes 125 meters. In reality, you could double these lengths and not notice - it would make about 0.1dB difference at 20kHz. Canare GS-6 was designed for use in extreme EMI environments - like performance spaces surrounded by megawatts of dimmed lighting - for very weak signals (guitar pickups similar in output to phono pickups) and not to be affected by handling noise (microphonics), yet still be very flexible and non-kinking. These make it absolutely ideal for audiophile applications, where cables typically run alongside a mess of electrical cables. Even better IMHO than the quite good REAN (Neutrik) RCAs are Canare's own purpose made RCAPs for GS-6, which require special crimp tools to install. Crimp connections have superior screening, pull strength and long life due to the exclusion of oxygen in the crimp connection joins. When a cable manufacturer wants lower capacitance it is generally achieved by using unshielded cables. Why anyone would want to listen to music contaminated with EMI, hum and buzz is beyond me, but lots of people do and lots of cable manufacturers make unscreened or poorly screened or unscreened cables. Now, that's an answer! Thanks for taking the time to write this and to help me understand capacitance which was new to me. Can I inferred from your words that : A- the Canare GS-6 is a great cable of very good quality and more than suitable for high end audiophile equipment and B- it is perfectly safe for my setting. In regards of the MM cartridge part. My TT, Clear Audio Concept is hard wired ( I can't use a different cable) and the Concept V2 cartridge has a capacitance of a 100pF. And I then use one of my new GS-6 from my Phono (Luxman E-200) into my integrated amplifier (Luxman L-550AX). Is that OK? Cheers! Edited August 21, 2015 by jrivask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicprObe Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 You can only listen to them. They either suit you or they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrivask Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 You can only listen to them. They either suit you or they don't. All good then! Yes they suit me. In fact now that I'm sure they are perfectly safe in my system I totally recommend them. Great quality and beautiful sound at a fraction of the price of the high end audiophiles brands. Thanks to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Now, that's an answer! Thanks for taking the time to write this and to help me understand capacitance which was new to me. Can I inferred from your words that : A- the Canare GS-6 is a great cable of very good quality and more than suitable for high end audiophile equipment and B- it is perfectly safe for my setting? In regards of the MM cartridge part. My TT, Clear Audio Concept is hard wired ( I can't use a different cable) and the Concept V2 cartridge has a capacitance of a 100pF. And I then use one of my new GS-6 from my Phono (Luxman E-200) into my integrated amplifier (Luxman L-550AX). Is that OK? Cheers! Yes, GS-6 is a great cable for audiophile equipment, and is perfectly 'safe' (it will not alter the sound by filtering) in your setting, between your phono stage and power amplifier. You can safely use 20 meters of GS-6 or more based on the E-200's specification. The E-200's input capacitance is not specified and I can't find any site that has measured it. I would expect it to be around 100-150pF. The Concept V2 will work just fine into higher load capacitance. Clearaudio's own Smart Phono has an input capacitance of 150pF, and the Concept turntable's wiring is 135pf. I reviewed this turntable and cartridge combination here: #1 You have some very nice kit, BTW. Edited August 21, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrivask Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Yes, GS-6 is a great cable for audiophile equipment, and is perfectly 'safe' (it will not alter the sound by filtering) in your setting, between your phono stage and power amplifier. You can safely use 20 meters of GS-6 or more based on the E-200's specification. The E-200's input capacitance is not specified and I can't find any site that has measured it. I would expect it to be around 100-150pF. The Concept V2 will work just fine into higher load capacitance. Clearaudio's own Smart Phono has an input capacitance of 150pF, and the Concept turntable's wiring is 135pf. I reviewed this turntable and cartridge combination here: #1 You have some very nice kit, BTW. John, once again thank you for your reply. I really appreciate your time to explain all this "rocket science" stuff...interesting! And yes I've been putting a lot of effort in building my system and after all this years I can say I'm "getting there" ... I've been certainly enjoining listen to it every day. Cheers mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koputai Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Good choice. I use Canare GS6 and Neutrik Profi RCA connectors for most of my unbalanced interconnects. IMHO they can't be beaten at any cost. I've had multi $k RCA cables, and they don't sound any better. The Neutrik Rean RCA connectors are an older Rean product, not up to the spec of the Profi, but easier to use, as the Profi's are a very tight connector. Cheers, Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2020 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Out of curiosity how much did these custom GS-6 cables set you back? I checked Factory Sound website, doesn't seem to list anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrivask Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 A pretty reasonable price...for the 11 meters of total cable, the 12 Neutrik Rean connectors and labor I've paid $160. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koputai Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Very reasonable indeed. Well done. Cheers, Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrivask Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 And by the way, at the same place they've also made me two 2.5 meters balanced interconnects with Neutrik XLR plugs and Canare Star Quad L-4E6S for $75... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koputai Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 That's exactly what I use for my balanced interconnects between the BMC-2 and the Meridian power amp, very nice cables. Seriously, anything more expensive or fancy than what you've got there is just bling, it won't perform audibly better. Cheers, Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustee Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 This is great info on the GS-6 cable, just what I was looking for to make my first set of interconnects. Thanks to all above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofeline Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Better to make the cables yourself, much cheaper: CS-6 - eBay at $5.99 p/m - https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Canare-GS-6-Instrument-Cable-Studio-Quality-Mono-Guitar-Cable-Per-Metre/310808612617 Rean RCA NYS373 $2.20 ea (be careful, when I bought some from factory sound the red rca's were a newer body design compared to the other colours which had an older body design, so didn't match. It's only a visual problem; the plug bits were the same. Some heatshrink can replace the colour collars if they are the wrong colour or have become brittle). https://factorysound.com/t/categories/connectors/rca?utf8=✓&per_page=&brand_name_facet[]=Re'an 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keinesorge Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, audiofeline said: Better to make the cables yourself, much cheaper: I totally agree. I've been using Rean connectors for a few years now (with different cables) to good effect. Can use your solder of choice too. Got em from here (no affiliation): https://www.x-on.com.au/ Edited October 9, 2018 by hifix 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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