Demondes Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 This is getting serious now. Thoughts of selling my NAD M51 Re crossing my mind now Geez on sound quality I would expect the Klein to stomp all over the Nad, or I wouldn't consider purchasing. In terms of convenience and "features" eg remote, looks etc I could understand someone maybe sticking with the NAD. Note: I had a NAD before my PS AUDIO PWD II 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill125812 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Hi Demondes The Klein does sound much better. Reason for the NAD for sale thoughts Cheers Edited June 30, 2015 by Bill125812 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Is anyone driving this with a dedicated CD Transport via spdif or is everyone mostly using the USB into a computer etc. I am intrigued by all the positive feedback and getting tempted to buy one. I haven't gotten into computer audio/streaming so it would be used as an external dac driven by a CD Players spdif output. Also I have noticed that USB seems to now be superior to SPDIF in most applications these days. Is this because more research has gone into the USB inputs or is USB just inherently superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.dent Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Comparing the NAD to the Klein is chalk and cheese. I'm not saying the NAD is worse, just that they are SO different. They will each shine in different systems. You really need to try it in your system but for me the Klein is much easier to listen to long term and suits my system and taste. I'm lookiing forward to getting my own now. Thanks Liam for the loaner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once was an audiophile Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yep, you nailed it Best ignore the troll who has nothing useful to add apart from crapping in other people's threads with the same tired diatribe. LOL audiogd fan boy its about time to get a Klein dac and put kingwa to sleep we all know that audio gd lost the shine many moons ago (go go go klein dac) KLEIN HAS NAILED KINGWA IN AUSTRALIA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mac Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 LOL audiogd fan boy its about time to get a Klein dac and put kingwa to sleep we all know that audio gd lost the shine many moons ago (go go go klein dac) KLEIN HAS NAILED KINGWA IN AUSTRALIA We shall see! The hype is promising so far... Let's hope it lasts into the future. One month does not a champion make. I hope I can catch up with Henry some day soon if he gets a demo unit, as he's got a Master 7 and I'll throw the old DAC19 into the ring. If the Klein can beat the PCM1704UKs for timbre and tone, I'll most certainly tip my hat to it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I am fortunate that I have heard many dacs. Unfortunately not all of them and also not always in a shootout. Unfortunately I have also not heard AudioGD, Lampizator, MSB, Zodiac, Meitner, Benchmark and many others. I am by no means an expert, but for $750 the Klein dac is a bargain. It is not "the best" and it does not have all the features, but it sounds fantastic for the $. There is two versions and I have not heard much feedback re the PCM version? It would be very interesting to get more opinions from guys like @@bhobba and owners of other dacs. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) It would be very interesting to get more opinions from guys like @@bhobba and owners of other dacs. Don't worry there is comparisons in the works. It takes a while to get everyone free and together. But it will be worth it because really keen ears like Rawl and Keith Eichmann will be there. The Klein is not the most expensive DAC out there, but it is comparable to some DAC's that are much more expensive. Exactly where it stands however will need to wait until some GTG's can be arranged. Already I can say its above DAC's that are twice as expensive like the NAD and Chord which I have owned so know quite well. We will see what the go is against $6-7K DAC's like the Killer, Direct Stream, and the Playback Designs which I own and/or have access to. Already I think it may be better than the upgraded DAC in my Oppo and that is $3K - but we will see. I don't however want to check that out until I have my Prima Luna in my system which is on loan right now because it has a volume control while I am direct connecting with my current amp. Thanks Bill Edited June 30, 2015 by bhobba 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Hi Bill Thanks for posting. No rush, agree these things take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celts88 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 This thread is really taking off in line with the number of DAC's being sold. Looks like Clay's got a winner here with his DAC, and the Klein II is going to have a following before it's even born. The fun part must be thinking of all the improvements he wants to add with the Klein II, but the hard bit is how to implement them and also keep the costs reasonable (certainly don't envy that part for him). I'm just a DAC virgin , but I sure started with a cracker to break my Duck. Even my wife and daughter are hearing the difference with the Klein (there's parts of each song that were never there before, which is the best surprise). Loaded trial version of Audirvana Plus tonight and it's made a difference. Next will be Tidal and see if that is an improvement over Spotify (would think so). As I've never had a DAC before, only got my new speakers 2 months ago (Paradigm Studio 100's), and then added some Ribbontek speaker cables it's hard to work out where each improvement is coming from. One thing I would say is that in the last day or 2 I'm sure hearing sounds from the music that I can't remember ever hearing. I'll give it 1 more week of burn in with the Klein and then take it out of the system to see what the difference is (I think it's probably easier to pick the changes when taking something out, than it is when adding). ​Never had so much fun listening to music since upgrading over the last 2 months (got to make sure I don't get a bad case of upgraditous). Yes, is great to listen out for all the improvements and tweaking we can do, but sometimes we also have to just sit back and enjoy what we have (if not my wife would have been severely disappointed in the 'short straw' she got with me ) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill125812 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Update NAD M51 has been sold. The little silver Klein box is feeling much safer now. : ) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 This thread is really taking off in line with the number of DAC's being sold. Looks like Clay's got a winner here with his DAC, and the Klein II is going to have a following before it's even born. The fun part must be thinking of all the improvements he wants to add with the Klein II, but the hard bit is how to implement them and also keep the costs reasonable (certainly don't envy that part for him). I'm just a DAC virgin , but I sure started with a cracker to break my Duck. Even my wife and daughter are hearing the difference with the Klein (there's parts of each song that were never there before, which is the best surprise). Loaded trial version of Audirvana Plus tonight and it's made a difference. Next will be Tidal and see if that is an improvement over Spotify (would think so). As I've never had a DAC before, only got my new speakers 2 months ago (Paradigm Studio 100's), and then added some Ribbontek speaker cables it's hard to work out where each improvement is coming from. One thing I would say is that in the last day or 2 I'm sure hearing sounds from the music that I can't remember ever hearing. I'll give it 1 more week of burn in with the Klein and then take it out of the system to see what the difference is (I think it's probably easier to pick the changes when taking something out, than it is when adding). ​Never had so much fun listening to music since upgrading over the last 2 months (got to make sure I don't get a bad case of upgraditous). Yes, is great to listen out for all the improvements and tweaking we can do, but sometimes we also have to just sit back and enjoy what we have (if not my wife would have been severely disappointed in the 'short straw' she got with me ) Hi John It is fantastic to see you as a relative new member posting - thanks for doing it. This is a fantastic hobby and it will only stay alive if we keep it so. I enjoyed your comments about your wife and daughter hearing differences. My daughters are not old enough, but I regularly get my wife to lsiten stuff as the girls have such good ears. Those Paradigms you nhave are such good value for money. Yes, as you say the upgrade sickness is something we have to avoid. Not bad to upgrade but the thing is that the real enjoyment is listening. Enjoy 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Hi Guys Check out the GTG with the Klein: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/84980-gtg-listening-session-with-redefy-on-saturday-4-july-2015-in-alexandra-hills-brisbane/ I think you will find it interesting. Thanks Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celts88 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Hi John It is fantastic to see you as a relative new member posting - thanks for doing it. This is a fantastic hobby and it will only stay alive if we keep it so. I enjoyed your comments about your wife and daughter hearing differences. My daughters are not old enough, but I regularly get my wife to lsiten stuff as the girls have such good ears. Those Paradigms you nhave are such good value for money. Yes, as you say the upgrade sickness is something we have to avoid. Not bad to upgrade but the thing is that the real enjoyment is listening. Enjoy Johannes Yes, new member, but with 50 year old ears I still know what sounds good or bad and the Klein has definitely improved the sounds I'm hearing (actually a good bottle of Whisky does the same for the rest of my senses, until I wake up in the morning ). My wife has never been into "that music thing" (waste of money as far as she is concerned), but she and my daughter said they really could hear something different in the music (better). Sometimes we want to hear more when we buy something new, and in most cases we do, but it may not always be better, but just different. In the case of the Klein to me it's better (I don't have much experience in good gear, but I still know what is enjoyable and what isn't). I think the Studios 100's will work best when I have my HT up and running with the CC-690 which is the best match, but don't think there that bad a slouch even when it comes to music. Really wish I had got into this a couple of months earlier as when Matt200sr was selling his ML2 ref's I would have seriously looked at getting money together for them (being in Perth could pick up local). Again, just need to sit back and enjoy what I have (doing that right now, with some Sade in the background). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOMO Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Yep, you nailed it Best ignore the troll who has nothing useful to add apart from crapping in other people's threads with the same tired diatribe. In fairness to Kajak /Mario the NAD M51 is really not a great DAC and certainly of very little use as a reference device. I have heard it on several occasions in different systems and never heard it sounding much good.I have heard worse and it probably represents decent value but it is really more mid-fi than hi -fi. At a recent GTG at JD Wests place in Perth it was one of the DACs we compared and it was almost universally thought to be one of the worst sounding. One person described it as sounding mushed together.Which is probably an excellent description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mac Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 In fairness to Kajak /Mario the NAD M51 is really not a great DAC and certainly of very little use as a reference device. I have heard it on several occasions in different systems and never heard it sounding much good.I have heard worse and it probably represents decent value but it is really more mid-fi than hi -fi. At a recent GTG at JD Wests place in Perth it was one of the DACs we compared and it was almost universally thought to be one of the worst sounding. One person described it as sounding mushed together.Which is probably an excellent description. The message may be correct, but Mario is about as subtle as a sledgehammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Spyne~ Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Unfortunately I won't be able to make it to the small GTG happening in country VIC today - man-flu has struck and I couldn't kick it yesterday However I promise to bring my Klein to the next GTG I'm able to attend. It's a good little DAC, I've finally relinquished the Arcam irDAC to the cupboard - the only thing holding me back was the user-friendliness of the Arcam in comparison. Once the Klein gets remote-controlled source/filter/volume it'll be even more of a bargain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once was an audiophile Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) The message may be correct, but Mario is about as subtle as a sledgehammer. No tip toe with me buddy bang it with the sledgehammer why put lipstick on a pig? You never know but one day might write reviews for 6moons Edited July 5, 2015 by kajak12 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMax Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Anyone in Melbourne has one that I can come over and have a listen? ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill125812 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Now that the Klein is truely burn in, and I have listened to quite a few genres of music, both through the optical ( from CD player ) and the coax ( moded sonos putting out 96k ), I can make a few comments In my opinion the coax has a more detailed delivery and tighter bass than the optical. Both are good, but I can certainly hear the difference between the two Now saying that, the Klein delivers exceptional quality and detailed music It's a very musical dac Easy to listen to over long periods. Bang for buck, I can't see anything touching this little gem. I'm looking forward to any updates that Clay will be making in the future I'll certainly be in line for them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) In my opinion the coax has a more detailed delivery and tighter bass than the optical. Clay and I heard the coax via Keith Eichmann's coax cable into my Klein on the weekend. It was amazing - very organic and analogue like. If you contact Keith you may be able to get a lend of one to check it out: http://kleinnovations.com/kle-innovations-klei-products/klei-gzero-digital-spdif/klei-gzero3d-ic/ If Keith can't help Clay has mine at the moment and you can get a lend of it from him. I am a BIG supporter of computer audio and USB, but that cable changed my mind. I will be using SPDIF from my upgraded Oppo in my system in the future. Thanks Bill Edited July 10, 2015 by bhobba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill125812 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) @@bhobba Thanks mate. I'll have a look Cheers Bill Edited July 10, 2015 by Bill125812 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naggots Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Now that the Klein is truely burn in, and I have listened to quite a few genres of music, both through the optical ( from CD player ) and the coax ( moded sonos putting out 96k ), I can make a few comments In my opinion the coax has a more detailed delivery and tighter bass than the optical. Both are good, but I can certainly hear the difference between the two Now saying that, the Klein delivers exceptional quality and detailed music It's a very musical dac Easy to listen to over long periods. Bang for buck, I can't see anything touching this little gem. I'm looking forward to any updates that Clay will be making in the future I'll certainly be in line for them Might have to get hold of a CD player and the KLEI 3D cable and try SPDIF. I've only compared Optical to USB and the USB is clearly better in my case. Both sound good however as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondes Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Clay and I heard the coax via Keith Eichmann's coax cable into my Klein on the weekend. It was amazing - very organic and analogue like. If you contact Keith you may be able to get a lend of one to check it out: http://kleinnovations.com/kle-innovations-klei-products/klei-gzero-digital-spdif/klei-gzero3d-ic/ If Keith can't help Clay has mine at the moment and you can get a lend of it from him. I am a BIG supporter of computer audio and USB, but that cable changed my mind. I will be using SPDIF from my upgraded Oppo in my system in the future. Thanks Bill Does coax in general (and this specific COAX) support throughput of PCM 192/24, and likewise DSD if there is a KleinDAC 2 with DSD support? I am totally Ignorant on the Coax front. Having only used the PSAUDIO Bridge, USB and Toslink previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Does coax in general (and this specific COAX) support throughput of PCM 192/24, and likewise DSD if there is a KleinDAC 2 with DSD support? I am totally Ignorant on the Coax front. Having only used the PSAUDIO Bridge, USB and Toslink previously. Yes to PCM 192/24, it depends for DSD - some do, some don't. Some even say they don't but do (my Chord was like that). Thanks Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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