Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Hi guys, well there are quite a few Klein DAC's out there now so I thought I would start a new topic just for owners. It might be a handy quick reference to compare filter settings, input quality comparison, testimonial's etc. regards Clay PS Liam, your DAC left today via Express Post Edited June 10, 2015 by Gieseler Audio Link to post Share on other sites
qwerter 647 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Received this DAC today and, I must say, I am really impressed upon the initial listening session. 3D like and very organic sound. It is hard to pinpoint any particular area where it shines, it just does things right. Great instrument separation, tonal balance and vocals sound sublime. It is very easy to use all the cliché words, but this is a very special DAC. Huge, but not exaggerated sound stage. Good job, Clay! Edited June 10, 2015 by qwerter 3 Link to post Share on other sites
matt200sr 396 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hi @@qwerter what are you feeding your Klein DAC with? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
qwerter 647 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hi @@qwerter what are you feeding your Klein DAC with? PM'd Link to post Share on other sites
frankn 2,562 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 0s & 1s (couldn't resist [emoji5]ï¸) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Ancientflatulence 1,572 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 @@frankn Tsk Tsk ......... there's always one .......... :-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
kajak12 688 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Hi @@qwerter what are you feeding your Klein DAC with? 240v i hope Edited June 10, 2015 by kajak12 1 Link to post Share on other sites
qwerter 647 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 240v i hope 230V +/-6% Link to post Share on other sites
Juicester 1,377 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Would the Klein work off a 9v 3A linear psu? If so I will buy one. Link to post Share on other sites
~Spyne~ 1,013 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Would the Klein work off a 9v 3A linear psu? If so I will buy one. Only if it's AC output. Unlike most DACs that operate on DC voltage, the Klein uses AC input. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Juicester 1,377 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) That's a shame. I wonder if @@Gieseler Audio would be able to do a DC version without too much difficulty? I'd say there is a decent market for people who would like to use external PSUs... Regards, Chris Edited June 10, 2015 by Juicester Link to post Share on other sites
A J 1,978 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I suspect that a good part of the Dacs performance is due to the power rectification/regulation designed within it. Having not heard this Dac it's pure speculation on my part, but I do know how important power delivery within digital circuits is. AJ 5 Link to post Share on other sites
naggots 282 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Clay explains why he used the AC power supply here http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/79063-new-ak4490eq-dac-coming/?p=1349693 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Hi Juicester, Spyne is absolutely correct in that my DAC needs a AC supply. The reason for this is that internally the Klein has eight different regulated supplies & four of these have there own SIC/Schottky rectifiers setups. To try & run the DAC with a single DC input would severely compromise & cripple the performance. Also the output stage uses + & - 12 volt supplies, difficult to implement well with a single DC input supply. The current power pack is way over specified at 2.4 Amp, the DAC only draws abut 650 MA & with a class A output stage current draw does not vary much. As an experiment I compared a huge RS components IE core transformer to the plugpack I use & had great difficulty hearing any difference. I hope this has answered your question. Regards, Clay PS thanks AJ - absolutely spot on! Edited June 10, 2015 by Gieseler Audio 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Juicester 1,377 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I suspect that a good part of the Dacs performance is due to the power rectification/regulation designed within it. Having not heard this Dac it's pure speculation on my part, but I do know how important power delivery within digital circuits is. AJ Precisely my point. As good as the little power pack is; I'm very doubtful it's as good as my external linear PSU. Link to post Share on other sites
Ozcall 1,426 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Precisely my point. As good as the little power pack is; I'm very doubtful it's as good as my external linear PSU. Juice an external ac powerpack is usually just a transformer. So my understanding is that the Klein dac has it's own sophisticated and dedicated Linear psu with external transformer, making an external linear psu irrelevant. Edited June 11, 2015 by Ozcall 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Juicester 1,377 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Juice an external ac powerpack is usually just a transformer. So my understanding is that the Klein dac has it's own sophisticated and dedicated Linear psu with external transformer, making an external linear psu irrelevant. I'm attached to mine though.... Anywho - thanks for the answers; and congrats on what seems to be a Giant Killer @@Gieseler Audio 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bhobba 1,061 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) I suspect that a good part of the Dacs performance is due to the power rectification/regulation designed within it. Having not heard this Dac it's pure speculation on my part, but I do know how important power delivery within digital circuits is. Having chatted to Clay about how he designed this DAC its secret sauce is indeed its power supply. Clay has put a lot of work into it. Thanks Bill Edited June 11, 2015 by bhobba 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 How are you guys finding the filter switches? Any prefered settings? I find in my well damped room at home both up works best but say in a tiled room both down is better. Link to post Share on other sites
GPK 11 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Picked up a Klein DAC yesterday so it's still early days. But first impressions... It's very natural sounding and not overly etched or detailed. Only tried the USB input so far and it's better with my iFI iUSB power. I didn't like up sampling with Audirvana. I prefer the filter switches both being up. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ancientflatulence 1,572 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Sticking with both up in my room and with my ears .......... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
naggots 282 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 both out for me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ancientflatulence 1,572 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Picked up a Klein DAC yesterday so it's still early days. But first impressions... It's very natural sounding and not overly etched or detailed. Only tried the USB input so far and it's better with my iFI iUSB power. I didn't like up sampling with Audirvana. I prefer the filter switches both being up. @GPK Just wondering ........ Where is the iFi iUSB power going, I thought the Klein didn't use USB power input ..... mine is running with a USB cable with no power wire ....... ?? Link to post Share on other sites
Bill125812 3,329 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi guys Don't know if this is the right place to ask this But I have a Nad M51 at the moment Has anyone compared the Klein to the M51. I'm interested in the Kline but don't know if it would be an upgrade I'm gut feeling is yes it would So if you can help please do Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
Jventer 1,672 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 @@bhobba might know from experience. I have heard the "older" versions and loved them. M51 can do a few things that the Klein can't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
qwerter 647 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Both switches up for me 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bhobba 1,061 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Guys The Kelin IMHO is better IMHO than the upgraded M51 I had. Note: This was not a direct comparison - but from memory. Thanks Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites
GPK 11 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 @GPK Just wondering ........ Where is the iFi iUSB power going, I thought the Klein didn't use USB power input ..... mine is running with a USB cable with no power wire ....... ?? Gemini cable from Mac Mini to iUSB to Mercury cable to Klein DAC. I assume that what it's doing rather than supplying power is reducing noise from the Mac. Interestingly, just this afternoon I've gone Mercury > iUSB > Gemini > Audiophilleo 2 > Klein and I think it's even better. But that's with the filter switches down. Not even 24 hrs yet, so not making any conclusions as yet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) It is definately an upgrade but obviously I'm biased. I have had a NAD M51 for several years & often use it as a reference point when evaluating my new DAC builds. It's features leave the Klein for dead, but the sound situation is reversed. Just listening to the M51 on it's own it sounds pretty good (I'm using v1.39 firmware) When doing a critical comparison between the two the Klein (AKM version) is more three dimensional with more separation between instruments & airiness. Bass is similar but the Klein Is a little tighter & cleaner. The Klein is producing more information & you just seem to hear more things happening in the recordings. The styling, features & operation of the M51 is excellent - I would kill to have all that in my DAC. The weakest area of the M51 is the basic output stage & excessive output filtering plus SMPS psu, this is normal in lots of commercial DAC's. It is in this area that I go totally overboard in the Klein, high current class A composite output stage with lots of quality cap decoupling & very light final filtering. This has a major effect on the sound, also the AK4490EQ DAC is brand new, & exceptional at decoding digital music files. Hope this info helps, regards Clay. Edited June 17, 2015 by Gieseler Audio 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Bill125812 3,329 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Hi Clay Thank you so much for the detailed breakdown It might be worthwhile to get one and compare Cheers Edited June 17, 2015 by Bill125812 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Absolutely!, you might have to wait a few days as I'm having trouble building these fast enough to fill orders. PS just seen what speakers you have - Klein should work well with those. Link to post Share on other sites
Bill125812 3,329 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks clay. I love the Martin Logans Is it best to just order one through your web site Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 We have actually taken the shopping basket off (tricky with international shipping rates) so it's best just to email me via the website or just PM here with your contact/email info. I usually just email out a invoice with direct deposit info ect. Link to post Share on other sites
bhobba 1,061 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) It might be worthwhile to get one and compare If I remember correctly Clay has a M51 in his shop. Since you are in Brisbane it may be possible for you to pop down to Clays shop and hear it for yourself. Thanks Bill Edited June 17, 2015 by bhobba 2 Link to post Share on other sites
bhobba 1,061 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I love the Martin Logans Nice speakers - divine midrange. Thanks Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bill125812 3,329 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Bhobba I think I might just like to get one and try on my own system Then I'll find out over a reasonable period of time what it's like And I know in detail how the Nad sounds on my system and can compare Clays dac more easily What's the worst that can happen She who must be obeyed will shake her head once again. Shrug her shoulders and walk off , leaving me to listen to music So I suppose a Win win situation 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Bill125812 3,329 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Yes they are Bhobba Love them to bits. The hybrid design also gives them a much better bass response Edited June 17, 2015 by Bill125812 Link to post Share on other sites
Gieseler Audio 2,470 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) The Klein's pretty small, you may be able to slip it in under the radar! Edited June 17, 2015 by Gieseler Audio 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bill125812 3,329 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Your kidding Clay All wives can pick a difference in what's in the lounge room from a kilometre away 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Celts88 148 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) I've got a keeper with my wife. Bought a Sub 1 a couple of months ago and when it arrived she said it was a lot smaller than she thought (wonder if I should have got a Sub 2 instead :lol:). Clay's just finished my DAC today, and can't wait for it to arrive as I've never had a DAC before (only built up my gear over the last 2 months). Currently airplay my music from Mac Mini to Apple TV, then optical into CD player (has in-built DAC), then into pre-amp, so now going straight from Mac Mini USB to Klein to pre-amp will be a big improvement Edited June 17, 2015 by Celts88 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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