Integrated Amps: An Addicts Guide.

[wen]

How can i say no to my original offer, i am looking at a vintage sansui at the moment, not sure of the exposure's future, sent a message to Gazer01 who is looking for an amp with pre outs, he has the 1010, the 2010 has pre outs,the Quasimodo is unbelievable in my set up, be interested in how the Sansui will sound, will be back home on Tuesday, will send the amp then, cheers Wen

Edited March 9, 2019 by wen

[wen]

@Cafad there are so many models to choose from, can you give a clue for a 60-70wpc reliable every day use sansui?from your experience, don't know if this is the impossible question

[Cafad]

I can do better than suggest, I can supply you with one.    

Hang on, I see a PM, I'd best get to answering it.  

[Cafad]

 

TACT S2150

 

Time to take a trip back in time to the source of all things good about class D amps.  Back in 2003 TACT was doing some ground-breaking work that the better class D amps of today have clearly benefited from.  Many class D amps are dynamic to a fault while sacrificing top end listenability and mid range sweetness, in some cases this “standard class D personality” works but in others it very much does not.  It can depend a great deal on the genre of music being played and the system it is played on.  Class D amps can make small systems sound bigger and more punchy than they usually do and I suspect it is this very trait that has made them so popular in the world at large.

 

However TACT took the traditional class D topology and refined it, embraced it to the point of removing the whole idea of a separate DAC.  Instead they performed a signal conversion on the PCM signal, converting it to a PWM signal that is then used to feed into the class D module directly.  I’ve heard several cheaper amps that do this, the QLS QA-100, the later QLS model QA-690, the Wadia 151, the POPU D5 and Venus models, the Nuprime IDA-8, though the IDA-8 has a conventional DAC (and the Nuforce DA-100, which was the least impressive of all of them to my ears).  All of these are decent amps in their own right (and at their own price points) but none are close to a match for the TACT.  The Classe Sigma 2200i is a similar design and it plays to its strengths a little more, the 2200i is, in my opinion, a better amp than the TACT S2150 but since it came along 13 years later and likely owes much of its design to the work done by TACT then that is no real surprise.

 

The big thing about the TACT S2150 is that it up samples to 384KHz, it is true that there is some gear out there that does this now but back in 2003 this was massive.  It also controls volume differently, I’m not sure I fully understand this but it seems to drop the voltage of the power supply in order to drop the volume.  Normally the volume is controlled by decreasing the voltage of the music signal while the power supply voltage is constant (or as near to constant as it can be kept) so this is different.

 

TACT also had some kick-ass room correction tech, some of which is usable with the S2150.  To get the most out of it though you need to use multiple amps as you can adjust both gain and crossover settings.  I believe the dedicated preamp was something of a legend in the area of signal control and gave you a load of choices if you were a bi or tri-amper.

 

The S2150 is a good amp, and it is not an amp that sounds like a class D design.  Its vocals are top notch and slower music is so resonant and poignant that you would swear you were listening to a $5K amp produced by a niche design house.  It does well on faster music but on fast and hard music with multiple instruments and vocals it isn’t as impressive as it is on the slower stuff.  It is far from alone in this regard, many amps have issues with separation and soundstaging when more than 4 sounds are competing for attention.  If I were reviewing the S2150 15 years ago I would have been very impressed, possibly even astounded, today I look at it and think thoughts like, “So that’s where the ideas that carried class D forward started.  You know, even by todays’ standards, it’s very good.”

 

It does have an eccentricity or two however, but I’ll get to those later.  Time to start the details and such.

As is usual I was using my YBA Herritage cd100 as a transport, coax cable was from Geoff at Aurealis, speaker cable was standard old Ugly cable, 10AWG, with banana plug connectors sourced from Jaycar (although I did use the TACT with Redgums speaker cables for several days, I could not detect a significant difference so I don’t believe the TACT to be very fussy when it comes to cables).  And speakers were, as always, my Lenehan S2R stand mounts. 

 

Highs:

Triangles sound almost crystalline and shiny, not really similar to any other amp I’ve heard.  I’m going to have to listen to them 4 or 5 times to get a grip on them I think.  Don’t get me wrong, they sound very good just not metallic enough.  Trumpets are nice and brassy but a little sweet as well.  Crisp metallic sounds seem to revel in their crisp-ness.  Can sound a touch dry when swamped with several instruments at once.   All in all, very good, 7.75.

 

Mids:

Depends greatly on what is going on.  On lighter music the mids are damn good.  Single instrument plus vocals and the TACT is up there with the best of the best, two or three instruments and it’s still very good but throw in four or five and it starts to lose that magic.  8.5 on slower music with a minimal number of instruments down to 7.25 with 4 instruments or more plus vocals.

 

Bass:

The class D “Big Bass Effects” are dialled down with the bass region correlating in with the highs and mids very well.  Impact and follow through are good but they could be a little fuller and deeper.  I don’t think this level of bass would keep a true bass head happy.  I realize it is this slight lessening of the bass that allows the mids to behave as well as they do but since I evaluate them separately I’m afraid the bass score is going to suffer.  Not suffer badly as it still does a good job, but it really isn’t up to the usual class D expectations.  Of course since this is a TACT the fact that it doesn’t sound like a stereotypical class D is the whole point.  7.5

However, as with the mids, if you play music with less instruments involved then the bass is much more satisfying.  Joe Satrianis’ “Hill of the Skull” for instance has excellent bass.  I’d be willing to go up to about 8.25 for that song. 

 

Vocals: 

TACT have really nailed the vocal side of things.  Female vocals are deep, resonant and sweet and Male vocals are clean and smooth with just a touch of gruffness when needed.  8.25 for both.  Nancy Wilson sound so good I’m going to pull out all my Heart albums tomorrow and spin them up.  I may even pop Freddie Mercury’s solo album in too, although the production values on it aren’t top notch so it may not do Freddie justice, worth a try though.

 

Sound staging:

Interestingly enough the vocals image extremely well, instruments in the mids almost as well and then instruments in the highs less and the bass lesser again.  There is a 3D soundstage (which is good news, many class D amps I’ve heard don’t seem to understand what a 3D sound stage is) but it is a little on the shallow side.  I have the distinct feeling that if my room were twice the size then the sound stage would integrate much more effectively, sometimes it felt like each speaker was trying to fill two thirds of the room.  I’m going to give it a 7.0 as a minimum, and up to a 7.75 in the mids and an 8.0 for the vocals.

 

Overall Performance:

Lighter styles of music are an absolute delight to listen to, lighter strings and woodwinds are excellent as are smaller drums, larger drums don’t feel quite as large as they could (unless they are the only instruments in use at the time).   I could certainly live with the TACT, but I think it would skew my listening more to the lighter styles in my collection.  I would probably keep another amp for the heavier stuff.

 

Ability to Emote:

7.5 on lighter styles, 7.5 to 7.0 on faster rock, 7.0 to 6.5 on rock with lighter (or boosted) mid bass.  I was definitely not feeling as much love for the Dire Straits remasters as I usually do (but the originals were pretty good).  Dynamic range crushing is even more evident than usual.

 

Electric Guitar Test:

8.25, very satisfying combination of growl and rumble with just a little edge to it.

 

80’s Rock Test:

7.5 with harder rock, 8.0 with lighter and/or softer rock.

 

In short, an informative and rather impressive, trip down memory lane.  Capability mixed with nostalgia.  That’s what the TACT S2150 is.

 

Now I guess  I need to put a Lyngdorf on my target list.

[Martykt]

43 minutes ago, Cafad said:

 

TACT S2150

 

Time to take a trip back in time to the source of all things good about class D amps.  Back in 2003 TACT was doing some ground-breaking work that the better class D amps of today have clearly benefited from.  Many class D amps are dynamic to a fault while sacrificing top end listenability and mid range sweetness, in some cases this “standard class D personality” works but in others it very much does not.  It can depend a great deal on the genre of music being played and the system it is played on.  Class D amps can make small systems sound bigger and more punchy than they usually do and I suspect it is this very trait that has made them so popular in the world at large.

 

However TACT took the traditional class D topology and refined it, embraced it to the point of removing the whole idea of a separate DAC.  Instead they performed a signal conversion on the PCM signal, converting it to a PWM signal that is then used to feed into the class D module directly.  I’ve heard several cheaper amps that do this, the QLS QA-100, the later QLS model QA-690, the Wadia 151, the POPU D5 and Venus models, the Nuprime IDA-8, though the IDA-8 has a conventional DAC (and the Nuforce DA-100, which was the least impressive of all of them to my ears).  All of these are decent amps in their own right (and at their own price points) but none are close to a match for the TACT.  The Classe Sigma 2200i is a similar design and it plays to its strengths a little more, the 2200i is, in my opinion, a better amp than the TACT S2150 but since it came along 13 years later and likely owes much of its design to the work done by TACT then that is no real surprise.

 

The big thing about the TACT S2150 is that it up samples to 384KHz, it is true that there is some gear out there that does this now but back in 2003 this was massive.  It also controls volume differently, I’m not sure I fully understand this but it seems to drop the voltage of the power supply in order to drop the volume.  Normally the volume is controlled by decreasing the voltage of the music signal while the power supply voltage is constant (or as near to constant as it can be kept) so this is different.

 

TACT also had some kick-ass room correction tech, some of which is usable with the S2150.  To get the most out of it though you need to use multiple amps as you can adjust both gain and crossover settings.  I believe the dedicated preamp was something of a legend in the area of signal control and gave you a load of choices if you were a bi or tri-amper.

 

The S2150 is a good amp, and it is not an amp that sounds like a class D design.  Its vocals are top notch and slower music is so resonant and poignant that you would swear you were listening to a $5K amp produced by a niche design house.  It does well on faster music but on fast and hard music with multiple instruments and vocals it isn’t as impressive as it is on the slower stuff.  It is far from alone in this regard, many amps have issues with separation and soundstaging when more than 4 sounds are competing for attention.  If I were reviewing the S2150 15 years ago I would have been very impressed, possibly even astounded, today I look at it and think thoughts like, “So that’s where the ideas that carried class D forward started.  You know, even by todays’ standards, it’s very good.”

 

It does have an eccentricity or two however, but I’ll get to those later.  Time to start the details and such.

As is usual I was using my YBA Herritage cd100 as a transport, coax cable was from Geoff at Aurealis, speaker cable was standard old Ugly cable, 10AWG, with banana plug connectors sourced from Jaycar (although I did use the TACT with Redgums speaker cables for several days, I could not detect a significant difference so I don’t believe the TACT to be very fussy when it comes to cables).  And speakers were, as always, my Lenehan S2R stand mounts. 

 

Highs:

Triangles sound almost crystalline and shiny, not really similar to any other amp I’ve heard.  I’m going to have to listen to them 4 or 5 times to get a grip on them I think.  Don’t get me wrong, they sound very good just not metallic enough.  Trumpets are nice and brassy but a little sweet as well.  Crisp metallic sounds seem to revel in their crisp-ness.  Can sound a touch dry when swamped with several instruments at once.   All in all, very good, 7.75.

 

Mids:

Depends greatly on what is going on.  On lighter music the mids are damn good.  Single instrument plus vocals and the TACT is up there with the best of the best, two or three instruments and it’s still very good but throw in four or five and it starts to lose that magic.  8.5 on slower music with a minimal number of instruments down to 7.25 with 4 instruments or more plus vocals.

 

Bass:

The class D “Big Bass Effects” are dialled down with the bass region correlating in with the highs and mids very well.  Impact and follow through are good but they could be a little fuller and deeper.  I don’t think this level of bass would keep a true bass head happy.  I realize it is this slight lessening of the bass that allows the mids to behave as well as they do but since I evaluate them separately I’m afraid the bass score is going to suffer.  Not suffer badly as it still does a good job, but it really isn’t up to the usual class D expectations.  Of course since this is a TACT the fact that it doesn’t sound like a stereotypical class D is the whole point.  7.5

However, as with the mids, if you play music with less instruments involved then the bass is much more satisfying.  Joe Satrianis’ “Hill of the Skull” for instance has excellent bass.  I’d be willing to go up to about 8.25 for that song. 

 

Vocals: 

TACT have really nailed the vocal side of things.  Female vocals are deep, resonant and sweet and Male vocals are clean and smooth with just a touch of gruffness when needed.  8.25 for both.  Nancy Wilson sound so good I’m going to pull out all my Heart albums tomorrow and spin them up.  I may even pop Freddie Mercury’s solo album in too, although the production values on it aren’t top notch so it may not do Freddie justice, worth a try though.

 

Sound staging:

Interestingly enough the vocals image extremely well, instruments in the mids almost as well and then instruments in the highs less and the bass lesser again.  There is a 3D soundstage (which is good news, many class D amps I’ve heard don’t seem to understand what a 3D sound stage is) but it is a little on the shallow side.  I have the distinct feeling that if my room were twice the size then the sound stage would integrate much more effectively, sometimes it felt like each speaker was trying to fill two thirds of the room.  I’m going to give it a 7.0 as a minimum, and up to a 7.75 in the mids and an 8.0 for the vocals.

 

Overall Performance:

Lighter styles of music are an absolute delight to listen to, lighter strings and woodwinds are excellent as are smaller drums, larger drums don’t feel quite as large as they could (unless they are the only instruments in use at the time).   I could certainly live with the TACT, but I think it would skew my listening more to the lighter styles in my collection.  I would probably keep another amp for the heavier stuff.

 

Ability to Emote:

7.5 on lighter styles, 7.5 to 7.0 on faster rock, 7.0 to 6.5 on rock with lighter (or boosted) mid bass.  I was definitely not feeling as much love for the Dire Straits remasters as I usually do (but the originals were pretty good).  Dynamic range crushing is even more evident than usual.

 

Electric Guitar Test:

8.25, very satisfying combination of growl and rumble with just a little edge to it.

 

80’s Rock Test:

7.5 with harder rock, 8.0 with lighter and/or softer rock.

 

In short, an informative and rather impressive, trip down memory lane.  Capability mixed with nostalgia.  That’s what the TACT S2150 is.

 

Now I guess  I need to put a Lyngdorf on my target list.

My first proper audiophile amplifier was a TACT Millenium MK2. (Which later went to the Lyngdorf brand)

 

It was a very good sounding amplifier and being pure digital in it was very much ahead of its time.

The build quality was exceptional too.

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Martykt

[Tony M]

Thanks Cafad for that excellent review of one of my favourite amps.  I was an early adopter of TacT gear and bought my first room correction preamp in around 2004.  It's still in perfect condition and serves as a handy spare pre.  Given that it has both digital and analogue inputs and digital and analogue outputs, it's incredibly versatile and it's built like a tank

 

In around 2006, I upgraded to the RCS 2.2XP (keeping the original RCS 2.0) and added the 2150.  Although I could never really come to terms with the room correction (probably just too complex for this old dinosaur!), I've always found this combo to be very useful, versatile and competent performers.  Boz was the epitome of the "flawed genius" and it appears to me he tried to be all aspects of his business instead of leaving the commercial aspects to someone with the appropriate skills.  The "divorce" from Peter Lyngdorf was always going to see Boz and TacT founder and, sadly. it did.

 

Anyway, the RCS 2.0 gets occasional use as a back-up preamp and the RCS 2.2XP and 2150 combo is in continuous, ongoing use in the family room and makes a pair of the ubiquitous NS1000M's sound  pretty much like I think NS1000M's should - ie superb within certain inherent limitations in the bass area.  We had some rellies for lunch today and the family room system has gradually climbed up to enjoyable volumes (it's still very sweet at background listening levels) and it's sounding gorgeous to me ATM.

 

Might snap a couple of pics to illustrate this post:

 

 

 

 

 

I really disagree with those who assert "All class D sounds like crap"  I wish they could hear what I'm hearing right now!

 

Thanks again for giving this lovely gear a rare bit of exposure.

 

 

[Cafad]

16 minutes ago, Tony M said:

Thanks Cafad for that excellent review of one of my favourite amps.  I was an early adopter of TacT gear and bought my first room correction preamp in around 2004.  It's still in perfect condition and serves as a handy spare pre.  Given that it has both digital and analogue inputs and digital and analogue outputs, it's incredibly versatile and it's built like a tank

 

In around 2006, I upgraded to the RCS 2.2XP (keeping the original RCS 2.0) and added the 2150.  Although I could never really come to terms with the room correction (probably just too complex for this old dinosaur!), I've always found this combo to be very useful, versatile and competent performers.  Boz was the epitome of the "flawed genius" and it appears to me he tried to be all aspects of his business instead of leaving the commercial aspects to someone with the appropriate skills.  The "divorce" from Peter Lyngdorf was always going to see Boz and TacT founder and, sadly. it did.

 

Anyway, the RCS 2.0 gets occasional use as a back-up preamp and the RCS 2.2XP and 2150 combo is in continuous, ongoing use in the family room and makes a pair of the ubiquitous NS1000M's sound  pretty much like I think NS1000M's should - ie superb within certain inherent limitations in the bass area.  We had some rellies for lunch today and the family room system has gradually climbed up to enjoyable volumes (it's still very sweet at background listening levels) and it's sounding gorgeous to me ATM.

 

Might snap a couple of pics to illustrate this post:

 

 

 

 

 

I really disagree with those who assert "All class D sounds like crap"  I wish they could hear what I'm hearing right now!

 

Thanks again for giving this lovely gear a rare bit of exposure.

 

 

It was my absolute pleasure Tony.  I had not heard of TACT as such but once I was made aware of their story I just had to hear one.  They are a piece of audio history, in both the fact that they are a technological first and that the company stands as an example of how a company can fail in the industry even though they have a series of products that are original and excellent quality.  It is a pity that they don't exist any more but at least they did exist and can still be found if you look hard enough.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Cafad

[Tony M]

FWIW, I should mention there is quite an active International forum (TactAudioUsersGroup) at yahoogroups.com

 

It's a fantastic resource sharing info, software, service tips and selling and buying leads.  You can download encyclopedia-sized manuals to assist with room correction etc.  I did so, but I have yet to find the time and inclination to master it as it's pretty complex.

 

There are quite a few real enthusiasts around the world  keeping the brand alive.

[ZOOTYtooty]

Where abouts are you located Tony?
I have the RCS and TCS and have found little to touch them. I have Tip and Hans-Martin very helpful when advice is needed!

[Tony M]

On 14/06/2019 at 5:44 AM, ZOOTYtooty said:

Where abouts are you located Tony?
I have the RCS and TCS and have found little to touch them. I have Tip and Hans-Martin very helpful when advice is needed!

Sorry, I just saw this post.  I'm at Hahndorf, in the Adelaide Hills - quite a few audio enthusiasts around here.

 

I totally agree the support of those guys on the TacT forum is fantastic.  Just one example was the analogue (or was it digital - just can't remeber for sure ATM which it was) input board of my 2.2XP failed.  From the symptoms, they were able to tell me that 4 small SMC caps neede to be replaced.  I was able to take the board out, drop it into a local computer repair shop and get it fixed by asking them to replace  specific caps.  Totally modular design is just great - no need to take the whole unit in.  I think it cost something like $50!

 

I have high hopes of keeping my Tact gear fully funtional for a long time

[ZOOTYtooty]

Thanks for the reply, had some friends over tonight and ended up in the music room!
Imagine where TacT ad a company would have been by now?!

[Cafad]

I've been enjoying my Classe Sigma 2200i lately on my ML2 Limited speakers.  The Classe being my favourite amp of all time (or possibly "so far") on the S2Rs.

It was pretty good, and I enjoyed it quite a bit for about a fortnight.  But on Saturday I felt the urge to change amps once again.  I was temped to change back to the Sansui 907 NRA (or any other Sansui) but I'd already listened to it on the ML2s so instead I went with Simons Zeus Integrated.  My oh my am I glad I did!

The Zeus has the grunt needed to make the ML2s produce bass and in fact when compared with the Zeus the Classe sounded a bit on the thin side.  I liked the Zeus  on the S2Rs, while it wasn't in my top 3 it was certainly in my top 5 or 6, but on the ML2s I think it will do considerably better in its placing.  It doesn't have the detail or the soundstaging of the Classe (I think I need a bigger room, something I am regularly reminded of with the larger amps) but damn it has some addictive dynamics and such smooth, easy bass when compared to the Classe.  I'll have to do some back to back comparisons at some point in the near future but for now I think the Zeus is certainly in the running for best ML2 integrated in my lounge room.

[Cafad]

 

I love integrated amplifier themed Sundays, I really do.

I've had the Classe Sigma 2200i in use, and replaced it with the Zeus and found I liked the Zeus more and that's given me the motivation to go ahead and do some comparing.

 

The Zeus plays to several of the strengths of the ML2s, one is the smooth presentation, another is the deep feel that the background has and a third is the deep bass (but only if the amp is up to the task).  The Zeus does all of these things well.  The only thing I miss is the soundstage as (as I've said before) it is too big for the room once you give it some volume.  I am prepared to live with this as I consider it only a minor inconvenience.

The ATC SIA2-150 is a slightly faster sounding amp than the Zeus, slightly more focused on impact and slightly less on follow through (this is not a surprise at all when you look at the power comparison, 150 watts for the ATC and 250 watts for the Zeus, 20,000 uF filtering capacitance per channel for the ATC and 44,000 uF for the Zeus).  Also there is a bit more of an edge to the ATC, not really a hard edge more of a difficult-to-explain differently textured edge.  It works as a minor positive for some songs and a minor negative for others, it can add a little sparkle to piano and strings but it can also add a little bit of twang to steely guitar and brass.  Not a deal breaker, I could live with it, but in the longer term I'd probably be playing around with interconnects in an effort to either minimize it or better understand it.  

The Sansui 907 NRA, when used via its "power amp direct" inputs (which are not actually power amp direct inputs as they still pass through a volume control) the sound is polite, pure and highly polished.  There is a bit less detail than the ATC but just as much presence, slightly less impact too but those vocals more than make up for it.  Vocals from the other amps were both very good but the NRA continues to dominate when playing hard sung vocals at high volumes.  There is a slightly less exciting feel to the NRA when compared to the other two amps but that polished, slightly laid back shine is just a joy to listen to.

When used via its integrated inputs the NRA gains detail and impact, this works well at lower volume levels but if you crank it up past about 10 o'clock it starts to get a bit peaky and harsh.  Too much gain in the system I expect.  I've only had it up to 3 o'clock via the "power amp direct" inputs but it doesn't get harsh at all, just louder, full bodied and amazing.

 

So which one is the winner?  Good question!

I'm leaning towards the Zeus as a general all round winner but if I get the urge to take an extra-long trip down female vocals lane I think I'd change over to the Sansui.  The ACT does not exactly disappoint, I've happily had it running in the system for a week or so prior to yesterday, but it does lose out (even if only just) on sheer power delivery to the Zeus and on the quality of the final finish to the Sansui.

 

So there you have it, Zeus first, Sansui 907 NRA second and ATC SIA2-150 third.  Close enough that if it was a horse race only the people seated on the finish line would have known who won without the assistance of a photo finish.

 

There is more to come, but it belongs elsewhere.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Cafad

[niss_man]

The Zeus has actually got 8 of these 22000uf 100v caps in it. Total of 176000uf in the power supply. And another 2000uf each on the amplifier boards.

[Cafad]

Terribly sorry, make that 88,000 uF filtering capacity per channel for the Zeus.  So almost 4.5 times the capacitance of the ATC, not 'only' 2.2 times.

[Dmak]

I found your other topic about finding an integrated amp for the LS50's, Curious if you still have the LS50's and what would your opinion/recommendation be on an integrated amp second hand under $2k for the LS50's ? 

[Cafad]

12 hours ago, Dmak said:

I found your other topic about finding an integrated amp for the LS50's, Curious if you still have the LS50's and what would your opinion/recommendation be on an integrated amp second hand under $2k for the LS50's ? 

Hey mate.  I'm afraid the LS-50's moved on over 12 months ago.  They had to eventually or the audio cycle of life could not continue.

If you've read the LS-50 thread then you'll know that several amps were stand out performers, two of my favourites being the Burson PI-160 and ME-240. 

[Cafad]

I've had a lot of overtime this last fortnight and much of it was spent sitting around waiting to be needed (yeah, it's sort of lucky because I get paid for it but it's dull as hell so I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with it) so of course I spent at least some of that time surfing ebay.  And I found this.

 

Hi-end Pure Class A Stereo Power Amplifier HiFi Integrated Amp Refer Accuphase

WWW.EBAY.COM.AU

---

Large output power: When class A output exceeds 20W, it will automatically extend to 200W Class AB to drive speakers, in order to maintain a very good state and offer better listening pleasure...

 

This looked interesting so I sent a link to my personal email address for later research and got on with being bored until I was required to do stuff.

 

Later I did some deep googling on it and started to get a little excited.  Here's a Chinese manufacturer that is making a high powered amp, supposedly based on an old Accuphase design, for a fairly reasonable price.  I needed to know more.  20 watts in class A prior to switching to class B and then on up to 200 watts, dual mono power supply and (although they only show pics of the power amp version) it was also available as an integrated.  

I've felt my enthusiasm for amps decreasing markedly lately but this reignited it, I could feel my love of amps returning... until I found a post on amazon by the manufacturer.  

 

That 20 watts in class A is total, so only 10 per channel, as is the 200 watts in class B, so only 100 per channel.  And, I expect, that means that the supposedly 800VA dual power supplies are actually only 400VA each.  That's reasonable, but not exactly special.  Also, the Accuphase amp that they claim to have copied the design of is actually quite different.  For one it's a MOSFET amp and this one isn't, it is also not a dual mono design and has a different number of output devices per channel.  That's enough info for me to develop a serious level of doubt regarding the manufacturers claim of "based on the design of".

 

They also claim to use Toshiba 2SA1943/2SC5200 transistor pairs, in my opinion these are one of the great audio products of recent years but they have also been out of production for a while now so these will most likely be copies, and given all the other info above I'm just not interested enough to buy one just so I can find out if it sounds decent or not.

 

So, one javelin to the chest later my love of amps (and of the audio industry in general) was in dire need of medical aid...  again!  I thought maybe this amp would be the one to get me back into the saddle (so to speak), but no, just another product that has been marketed in such a way as to make me throw up in my mouth a little.

 

Yes I know marketing serves a purpose in this world, I just wish it didn't.  I'm going to go and be cranky while I clean out my guttering now.  The cranky bit won't help, but maybe I can get it out of the way so I can be less cranky later.

 

 

[wen]

@Cafad, maybe opening the front door, shouting " SANSUI FOREVER" three times will ease the mind, ohmmmmmmmmmmm.............

Edited December 1, 2019 by wen

[rusty48]

Heh heh, and Accuphase have just released a new model, the E-800 integrated. 
Mmm, 50w class A into 8ohms, doubling down to 1ohm,  etc. That 50w extends to 90w before it starts to clip... 
And of course that's _each_ channel with _both_ channels driven.
Fully balanced from go to whoa (of course). 
I'm salivating just writing about it .  
How are the gutters?

[Cafad]

2 minutes ago, rusty48 said:

Heh heh, and Accuphase have just released a new model, the E-800 integrated. 
Mmm, 50w class A into 8ohms, doubling down to 1ohm,  etc. That 50w extends to 90w before it starts to clip... 
And of course that's _each_ channel with _both_ channels driven.
Fully balanced from go to whoa (of course). 
I'm salivating just writing about it .  
How are the gutters?

Yeah I saw the thread on that Accuphase, it does look nice.

 

The gutters are still full, it's hot and I'm not feeling that energetic.  Maybe next weekend...

[rusty48]

Hot? Time to move to Cambodia for a reality check!

[Cafad]

On 02/12/2019 at 3:52 PM, rusty48 said:

Hot? Time to move to Cambodia for a reality check!

Anywhere above body temp is hot, regardless of geography. 

And I don't need to travel to be lazy, I can do that at home.

[Cafad]

I think it's time to start the signing off on this little integrated amp tangent of mine.  Over the last 9 to 10 years I've been a bit of an overly enthused advocate for integrated amps. 

I have been asked why on several occasions and my answer was basically why not.  Why would I not be more interested in a product that takes more effort to get right than separates?  It takes more skill to jam both a pre and  power section into the same chassis and not have them interfere with each other so why shouldn't I be interested in how various companies try to get it right.

And now that digital circuitry is often in the mix as well, that makes things even harder.  It can be done of course, just not by lazy engineers and not without putting in at least a little effort in the area of power supply separation and signal shielding.

Anyway, enough of that, I was starting to sign off.

 

Yeah, that's right guys, I've about had enough.  

I still like integrated amps but my enthusiasm for the solo reviewing and comparing side of things is waning so I'm putting the whole voluntary reviewing thing to bed.

 

I'll probably still do one here and there (still have several on hand that I have yet to get around to, in fact) and I still have some work to do with Terry on the amp comparing front but for the most part, I'm done.

 

I hope all you SNA'ers have a happy and cheerful Christmas season and I  hope your family and friends take just enough interest in your hobbies to get you an album or T-shirt or some other audio themed pressie to unwrap on Christmas day.

 

Cheers Everybody.  And here's looking forward to the 2020's.

 

 

 

 

[frednork]

Thanks for your efforts have enjoyed reading your impressions.