Building the ideal(ish) Music Server

[Jones99]

2 hours ago, thewaves said:

That is truly a beautiful world class system, guessing one of the top 5 in Australia.

 

I am working on something similar but my digital front end won't match that! My analogue setup however...

@Jones99 I have been offered a staggering deal on a Gobel Loom - should I take it?

I do not want to derail this thread so please send me a pm for more details .......they do sound superb to me though and I am rarely impressed by cables

Edited May 24, 2017 by Jones99

[kukynas]

this thread kind of died out so small resurrection, any updates anyone? I've been working in the background on my streamer but it seems I'm kind of stuck with whole AIO theory to be better than dedicated standalone streamer with external PSU, not sure if it has anything to do with grounding, isolation or just the Celeron board I've been using last few months, don't know why but always when I go back to beebox I find it more pleasure to listen to it...

Beebox isn't the perfect solution from simple fact, it's still using lot of add on modules (unnecessary), no isolation of the components on the motherboard and no shielding (plastic box) so couple of weeks back I started to look at more purpose built solutions like 3.5" embedded boards from Axiomtek and similar, unfortunately most of these boards are not available to end users or are in small qties so extremely expensive $500-1K per board (on Mouser or Element14), accidently found kickstarter project called Up squared 2 as shown here but even if it has pretty much all necessary things (I like direct 5V input a lot) few pcs are still missing, top of that if you start counting with chassis, tax, shipping and import fees one might end up paying $350-400 just for board and piece of aluminum without knowing how does it perform in real life (means OS and audio programs installed with all necessary drivers and benchmarks done) so for me no go, another search for couple of last few days until I came across this...

 

 

latest Apollo Lake N3450 Intel X4 processor, 4-8GB LPDDR3 memory, 64GB eMMC built in expandable through M.2 SSD slot, isolated gigabit LAN, isolated main processor board from surrounding components (that square yellow thingy) , Wifi&BT chip installed (the only drawback), 12V 1.5A DC input, Win10 preinstalled...

Auralic Aries type board with x86 processor instead of ARM 

8GB version for $220 over here, will report back once it arrives and stress test is done...

[Triplefun]

I think this is the same device but a little cheaper - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Genuine-Beelink-AP34-windows-10-TV-Box-Intel-Apollo-N3450-Mini-PC-4G-64G-Bluetooth-4/32815523297.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.2.ajGF4X&traffic_analysisId=recommend_2088_1_81019_new2&scm=1007.13339.81019.0&pvid=1983837d-f6a0-4f07-ba8c-f1b3eaeecb37&tpp=1

[kukynas]

Yep, but only 4GB memory, that's why such price difference

 

just to add, 4GB version goes as low as $155 over here

Edited July 24, 2017 by kukynas
added link

[Gordon Macfarlane]

What about this one Daniel : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-PC-Celeron-i5-4200U-Win-10-Linux-Mini-Computer-Cooling-Fan-Desktop-HD-Graphics-Mini/32817191205.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.197.iyKiS0&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10309_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10137_10111_10175_10060_10112_10113_10155_10131_10114_10132_10133_10154_438_10056_10055_10054_10310_10182_10059_100031_10099_10078_10079_10103_10073_10102_10120_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051-10120,searchweb201603_2,ppcSwitch_7&btsid=24fb3627-24a3-4aa2-b637-20613be7a4e0&algo_expid=197832ce-b833-4f47-aa69-7c9cdc35597a-29&algo_pvid=197832ce-b833-4f47-aa69-7c9cdc35597a

[kukynas]

Hi Gordon,

unfortunately it's no different than any other of the shelf mini ITX DC board with modular design, to cool down i5-4200U in such small chassis will most probably require constant ventilation so no good for audio, might be more suitable for HTPC, on the other hand above mentioned AP34 is also capable of 4K/60P (check YT for some reviews) but completely silent with half of the power consumption and cheaper... 

[Guest rmpfyf]

I've got a spare NVIDIA TX1 dev board here that I'm going to try to get up and running as at HTPC. 

 

10W CPU draw at full load... some CUDA capability for resampling/convolution filters... can't be bad

[kukynas]

looks interesting, pity it's not x86 based board

[Guest rmpfyf]

12 hours ago, kukynas said:

looks interesting, pity it's not x86 based board

 

It runs Ubuntu just fine though - so most things relevant to audio work 100%. Even has a PCIe x4 slot  

[kukynas]

and how does it sounds compare to your x86 board?

[Guest rmpfyf]

6 hours ago, kukynas said:

and how does it sounds compare to your x86 board?

 

I'll tell you in a week when I have it running as a HTPC

[realysm42]

Update; broke my pc 2/+ months ago, not fixed it yet. I miss my system badly.

 

Been interesting to use a dedicated gaming pc for audio instead as a comparison; not bad, per se, but pales compared to a super duper audio build. Music is boring right now.

[Guest rmpfyf]

1 hour ago, realysm42 said:

Update; broke my pc 2/+ months ago, not fixed it yet. I miss my system badly.

 

Been interesting to use a dedicated gaming pc for audio instead as a comparison; not bad, per se, but pales compared to a super duper audio build. Music is boring right now.

 

What 'appened?

[AccuTidal]

I am back guys... and thought I can share with you all a couple of my recent builds. 

The i3 NUC on Window Server 2016 with JPlay streamer with Linn Kazzo on tablets. 

All negative talks or experiences with this NUC on SNA appeared inconclusive and unjust... what this little bugger needs is a decent linear psu from 12vdc to 19Vdc. Recently put together one for a local old friend...., very shocked to learn it is not too shappy at all..., when power with a decent LPSU.

 

Another custom build is an all in one server. The latest i7 technology that at the maximum speed you can get in til date. Again, previously it seems i7 was too analytical sounding... It is too damn true as those feedbacks did not tell the full story. They were all using off the shelves switchmode psu. A psu made for the IT operations, and solely without intend for music or audio.

This build is truly a custom build for a mate. Even the ATX cables are custom hand made to suit its intend....

 

There you go..., it is all comes down to power supplies..., for SQ that is...! 

 

I will post a few photos later.... stay tune. 

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Chanh
Photos added.

[Rob181]

Welcome back Chanh...you have been missed...at least by me...

[Guest scumbag]

9 minutes ago, Chanh said:

I am back guys... and thought I can share with you all a couple of my recent builds. 

The i3 NUC on Window Server 2016 with JPlay streamer on Linn Kazzo on tablets. 

All negstives talks or experiences with this NUC on SNA appear inconclusive and unjust... what this little bugger needs is a decent linear psu from 12vdc to 19Vdc. Recently put together one for a local old friend...., very shocked to learn it not too shappy at all..., when power with a decent LPSU.

 

Another custom build is an all in one server. The latest i7 technology that at the maximum speed you can get in til date. Again, previously it seems i7 was too analytical sounding... It is do damn true as those feedbacks did not tell the full story. They were all using off the shelves switchmode psu. A psu made for a IT operational, and solely without intend for music or audio. This is truly a custom build for a mate. Even the ATX cables are custom hand made to suit its intend....

 

There you go..., it is all come down to power supplies..., for SQ that is...! 

 

I will post a few photos later.... stay tune. 

 

What power supply do you recommend for a NUC? I have an I5 Gen7 unit. 

[AccuTidal]

2 hours ago, scumbag said:

What power supply do you recommend for a NUC? I have an I5 Gen7 unit. 

What is your budget? Honestly - how long is a piece of string? 

 

I can can provide you the formulas from $200 to $2,500. 

For basic stuff:

300VA transformer $75, Schottkey AC to DC rectifier $20, a choke $65, 2 x 33,000uf filter caps $50, a linear Regulator $20, two 0.1 ohm 5W resistors and two dual 470uf Panasonic Polymer caps at output. This should certainly kick ass your wall-Mark switch mode PSU by miles...

 

edit: I forgot you also need some bypass caps. 0.1uf or 0.047uf.... Play around with this value, to suit your taste and system's synergy. 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Chanh

[kukynas]

3 hours ago, Chanh said:

I am back guys... and thought I can share with you all a couple of my recent builds. 

The i3 NUC on Window Server 2016 with JPlay streamer with Linn Kazzo on tablets. 

 

Welcome back Chanh ?

If you haven't tried I would recommend Lumin app instead of Linn, much much better, just set up OH media protocol via BubbleUPNP software and you should be fine, also works well with minimserver with remote fuctions

[AccuTidal]

8 hours ago, kukynas said:

 

Welcome back Chanh ?

If you haven't tried I would recommend Lumin app instead of Linn, much much better, just set up OH media protocol via BubbleUPNP software and you should be fine, also works well with minimserver with remote fuctions

Thanks Daniel! I am really enjoying the miniserver at the minute. If Roon can do OpenHome Media protocol would be fantastic, but it seems to my experience, it does not til date with the latest build V1.3 (259). 

[Guest scumbag]

9 hours ago, Chanh said:

What is your budget? Honestly - how long is a piece of string? 

 

I can can provide you the formulas from $200 to $2,500. 

For basic stuff:

300VA transformer $75, Schottkey AC to DC rectifier $20, a choke $65, 2 x 33,000uf filter caps $50, a linear Regulator $20, two 0.1 ohm 5W resistors and two dual 470uf Panasonic Polymer caps at output. This should certainly kick ass your wall-Mark switch mode PSU by miles...

 

edit: I forgot you also need some bypass caps. 0.1uf or 0.047uf.... Play around with this value, to suit your taste and system's synergy. 

Are any of the relatively cheap units on Ebay OK? I see some of them have quite good transformers and they at least read like they have a thought out the design. Not that I can tell from the pictures they post. 

 

Mark

[AccuTidal]

3 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Are any of the relatively cheap units on Ebay OK? I see some of them have quite good transformers and they at least read like they have a thought out the design. Not that I can tell from the pictures they post. 

 

Mark

Mark, have you got a link to the psu of interest? My concern with eBay is the quality assurance. The quality of the components, eg. Capacitors are very poor quality. Their quality is abit like take away fast food.

[Guest scumbag]

2 minutes ago, Chanh said:

Mark, have you got a link to the psu of interest? My concern with eBay is the quality assurance. The quality of the components, eg. Capacitors are very poor quality. Their quality is abit like take away fast food.

None in particular. I'd need to work out the VA rating that an I5 Gen7 NUC would safely need on full load first I suppose. I am guessing at least 30VA??

[AccuTidal]

59 minutes ago, scumbag said:

None in particular. I'd need to work out the VA rating that an I5 Gen7 NUC would safely need on full load first I suppose. I am guessing at least 30VA??

30VA? How is about multiplying by a factor of 5? I guess, it is depending on how many more USB-harddrive(s) you plan to connecting? Also if you are using the M.2 Sata or SSD or 2.5" spinal? It is all adding up.... 

 

Guys - the new Intel 7th gen CPU, is fantastic for linear psu. Power demanding is much forgiving with LPS. 

[Spider27]

@Chanh  First of all, thank you very much for sharing the info and great to know that NUC is not a bad thing at all if it is powered by LPSU.

 

May I ask a few questions if you may?

 

1/ Is there a noticeable difference between i3 NUC and i7 NUC? It seems that i7 processor is better not only processing power but sonic quality, too?

2/ Which LPSU would you recommend around $200 (budget)?

3/ I only tried Raspberry Pi with Rune Player and recently got Squeezebox Touch a few days ago. Is NUC definite step up from RP & SBT ? 

 

Thank you very much..

[AccuTidal]

24 minutes ago, Spider27 said:

@Chanh  First of all, thank you very much for sharing the info and great to know that NUC is not a bad thing at all if it is powered by LPSU.

 

May I ask a few questions if you may?

 

1/ Is there a noticeable difference between i3 NUC and i7 NUC? It seems that i7 processor is better not only processing power but sonic quality, too?

2/ Which LPSU would you recommend around $200 (budget)?

3/ I only tried Raspberry Pi with Rune Player and recently got Squeezebox Touch a few days ago. Is NUC definite step up from RP & SBT ? 

 

Thank you very much..

No worries...! Enjoy your journey. 

Stepping up from the RPi to 86 architecture, you will instantly be picking up on the timing, resolution and focus to the better, no matter what software you plan using, except JRiver. Not sure if those suit your taste? 

Some liked their sound to be a little coloured and less precise. They believe them as analogue sounding..., because it is graduate, slow, and easy to the human ears... abit like valves gears... some really enjoying the flaw in em... and that is my personal opinion, not necessarily true or fact for all.