Building the ideal(ish) Music Server

[AccuTidal]

23 minutes ago, Tasso said:

We made very good progress with improving speed of response  with the server  and  the key to moving forward is in that area. This is something that  John Swenson was very aware of when he designed the Uptone Audio JS-2 and in my experience, it will still produce the best PRAT for a music server. zFuture developments will hone in on improving response speed and ultimately resolution.  I think the key to this lies in further RFI/EMI noise reduction strategies with PSU,  ATX DC conversion etc.   we have a couple of things in mind ( @Chanh is full steam ahead already) .

That is the amazing combo there Tasso! I walked away puzzling why should you bother with CA any further? Nonetheless, there are much happening in CA progression. I am equally exciting for the audition opportunity, using @Jones99's Aurender W20 as an objective/reference at next get together.

For those of interests, I found Asrock J3710 mobo is the better pick for PCIe, and Asrock AD2700 was a better pick for PCI usd card. I have also trial the i7 mobo recently, and the result base on my setup, performed less engaging. Perhaps high power cpu/mobo were not synergies well in my setup?  

[Guest rmpfyf]

16 hours ago, roh008 said:

Hi Acg,

 

Do we know if the pro-audio world are going down this route during the mastering/producing stages. I'm not aware that they go to these extremes so am wondering what benefits are occurring within the processing steps that are being heard in these changes? 

 

 

(Though not @acg I hope you don't mind my having a stab here)

 

Would be mindful that recording, mixing and playback are different processes. 

 

• Recording - key bits causing jitter are usually handled completely external to the PC (should a PC be used). Data already has a time base once it gets to a PC for storage or post-processing.
• Mixing/mixdown where digital - signals in a time domain, time alignment doesn't have to be done realtime, it's completely programmatic.
• Playback - unless using external buffering/time sync (which some do, most not) the PC matters. 

 

As to whether CPU L3 cache/multicore/extended instruction sets etc works for you - really depends on coding in your player, RAM overheads, etc.

[Guest rmpfyf]

@Tasso wow, that's an impressive two bits of hardware you've got there. They're beautifully presented too.

 

@Chanh which i7/how was it run? 

 

That little Asrock board is indeed quite nice.

[TP1]

Having easily surpassed New Zealand's finest music server , as@Chanh mentioned, the next on the list to compare to will be the Aurender W20. The Aurender seems to use an xmos solution to isolate the USB output. I have no idea how this will compare to the Sotm solution I am using, but clearly Aurender have identified server noise isolation as a key factor to achieving the highest level of performance.

They also use a battery based power supply- I'm less fussed about that based on some battery supply experiences but I am keen to try UpTone Audio's latest supercap supply also designed by a John Swenson.


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[Stereophilus]

Hopefully not too off-topic Tasso, but do you use or have you tried that USB galvanic isolation device from Intona?  I'd be interested to hear how that product changes SQ in your already tricked out digital setup.  It does make a difference between my Antipodes DX and DS DAC, and is an improvement over an Uptone Regen.

 

Just curious.

[Scratcher]

I appears the new shaart deluxe has been released!

http://shoutout.wix.com/so/eLUFFDd4?cid=a8c64173-eae3-4b31-9e2b-ade475281ec5#/main

 

[davewantsmoore]

On 02/10/2016 at 11:17 PM, roh008 said:

Hi Acg,

 

Do we know if the pro-audio world are going down this route during the mastering/producing stages. I'm not aware that they go to these extremes so am wondering what benefits are occurring within the processing steps that are being heard in these changes? 

 

 

Depends on the DAC.

[TP1]

On 04/10/2016 at 8:50 AM, Stereophilus said:

Hopefully not too off-topic Tasso, but do you use or have you tried that USB galvanic isolation device from Intona?  I'd be interested to hear how that product changes SQ in your already tricked out digital setup.  It does make a difference between my Antipodes DX and DS DAC, and is an improvement over an Uptone Regen.

 

Just curious.

 

 

I have tried the Intona and  the UpTone Audio USB Regen on my previous DAC, the Accuphase DC-37 and neither seemed to improve  the SQ with my setup. However  I have heard them make  nice improvements with different servers and DACs to mine .  

 

I did detect a slight loss of low level detail with the regen but not with the Intona.    

Edited October 8, 2016 by Tasso

[Ancientflatulence]

How would one go about fitting the Shaart card into a Jetway NF9C board fitted into a Streacom F7C which has a PCI slot and a Mini PCie Slot but the PCI slot is aligned with the cut out on the case for the USB card and the Mini PCI slot is in the middle of the board and mounted horizontally ......

[Keith_W]

You need a PCI-E riser cable like this: http://www.ebay.com.au/bhp/pci-e-riser

 

Or if you want a fancy looking one, there is this: http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Silicon-PCIEx16-3.0-Flexible-Riser.html

[roh008]

 
(Though not@acg I hope you don't mind my having a stab here)
 
Would be mindful that recording, mixing and playback are different processes. 
 

• Recording - key bits causing jitter are usually handled completely external to the PC (should a PC be used). Data already has a time base once it gets to a PC for storage or post-processing.
• Mixing/mixdown where digital - signals in a time domain, time alignment doesn't have to be done realtime, it's completely programmatic.
• Playback - unless using external buffering/time sync (which some do, most not) the PC matters. 

 
As to whether CPU L3 cache/multicore/extended instruction sets etc works for you - really depends on coding in your player, RAM overheads, etc.

Thanks for the reply. I don't mind who replies. Just trying to get a perspective as it's not an area I thought would have impacted things. Audio processing isn't a high demand process on the CPU. Even if up sampling 44.1 to 192 it wouldn't tax a standard CPU enough.

Which software players are people using now for playback to utilise these benefits? I've got a higher spec (i7) PC that's not being used for my music.

[roh008]

 
Depends on the DAC.

Isn't there a few more steps between L3 cache and DAC though? Why would it be the DAC that these particular upstream changes depend on?


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[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, roh008 said:

Isn't there a few more steps between L3 cache and DAC though? Why would it be the DAC that these particular upstream changes depend on?

 

Because these are the way performance is potentially degraded by the computer.

 

1)  Jitter in the digital signal, at the time it is being converted to analogue

2)  Electrical 'interference' which affects the DAC in other ways to #1, eg.  noise coupled through mains, grounds, or signal lines

3)  Something which causes incorrect on/off pulses to reach the DAC

 

The outcome of #1 depends on what the DAC does with jitter.   This is very hard to generalise.   For some DACs the performance depends heavily on the input signal.  Others less so.

 

The outcomes of #2 depends on many things in the design of the DAC

 

#3 is not something which generally happens

[realysm42]

Just got my ddr4 16gb (1r) kit delivered. The pc is half built but I've stopped at applying thermal paste as I've got a motherboard clock upgrade pending; if i built fully now I'd have to disassamble everything to fit it so im fighting the urge.

A comment on the hd plex case i purchased; they sent it to me quickly with a silver faceplate (i ordered black) and they sent the black separately, this impressed me because that means they've increased their shipping costs to get the product to me faster - bravo.

I wasn't so impressed with the missing manual (yes you can dl but c'mon) and i didnt realise but with micro atx boards not 8 all heatpipes fit properly. Larry told me to bend it or just use 7! I don't want to compromise on anything when I've spent this much on a premium product. Some creative and frankly stressful bending of two heatpipes means I'll be able to use all 8. Bit of an oversight there imo.

I like the visual management in the base of the pc itself (clearly marked outlines for various components - nice touch). The manual could be made a lot easier to use with some simple tweaks.

Can't wait to fit my 3rd sotm card to the build. Then I'll copy Tasso's ideas and upgrade the cards themselves. Interesting times.

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[BioBrian]

I'm starting a new build, without the -ish this time, and can't find a source of Oyaide 2.5mm DC panel sockets, to match the lovely Oyaide plugs coming with the Uptone JS-2.

 

Can anybody help me please?

[AccuTidal]

2 hours ago, BioBrian said:

I'm starting a new build, without the -ish this time, and can't find a source of Oyaide 2.5mm DC panel sockets, to match the lovely Oyaide plugs coming with the Uptone JS-2.

 

Can anybody help me please?

 

What are you building BrioBrian? Any photos?

[AccuTidal]

I have spent a warm day in Perth today rework on my server psu. Complete Linear psu all the way with ATX management and in rush power management!

Often - we don't appreciate smd soldering.., this is my first trail so pls be gentle.

[Keith_W]

Very nice! Where did you get that from, Chanh? 

[AccuTidal]

17 minutes ago, Keith_W said:

Very nice! Where did you get that from, Chanh? 

Thanks Keith_W!

I have got them from an audio Mate in UK. If they are working out and provide the SQ I anticipate, I will make them available in group-buy for those of interested. Definitely will be a more refine and compact pcb in the future.

[BioBrian]

56 minutes ago, Chanh said:

 

What are you building BrioBrian? Any photos?

 

Ah ha! Seems I broke SNA rule #1: "No pics - it didn't happen".

 

It's a server, this time without compromise. All I have at present is a gorgeous Streacom FC8 Alpha case. I've drilled a couple more holes for DC inlet. 12V will be thru top hole for Pico, 5V to both bottom holes - 1 to SSD and 1 to Shaar USB card. (The latter 2 might have to share, until I can afford an LPS-1  ).

 

 

I didn't know this was possible, but I needed a thinner panel to fit sockets, like the rebated top hole, so managed to rebate the bottom holes with a router. Easy, except for cleaning up the aluminium chips that went everywhere.

 

 

As I've ordered silver wire & Teflon sleeves, etc, I just hope that I can find jacks of appropriate quality, rather than the shown cheapies.

[Guest rmpfyf]

@Chanh that's pretty sweet.

 

[AccuTidal]

BioBrian,

Is you shaar a deluxe version? Noticeable differences in SQ between the standard and Deluxe version.

None the less, mine will be super deluxe version. Clonesaudio and I, we are exchanged notes and he is taking on board my inputs/recommendations...... I should have my super deluxe version, based on my inputs and recommendations, for the trail..., will report once I received it. Note - this so called Shaar super deluxe, is outside the manufacturer's specs and will not be available for sale, until it is proven to be significantly improved in SQ. The proof is in the listenning...!

[BioBrian]

2 minutes ago, Chanh said:

BioBrian,

Is you shaar a deluxe version? Noticeable differences in SQ between the standard and Deluxe version.

None the less, mine will be super deluxe version. Clonesaudio and I, we are exchanged notes and he is taking on board my inputs/recommendations...... I should have my super deluxe version, based on my inputs and recommendations, for the trail..., will report once I received it. Note - this so called Shaar super deluxe, is outside the manufacturer's specs and will not be available for sale, until it is proven to be significantly improved in SQ. The proof is in the listenning...!

 

Damn, I just knew that would happen! Yes, I ordered the Deluxe, but maybe they haven't finished soldering it yet, and I can say "Hey, I'll have what he's having"...

 

Patience is not one of my virtues. I fully expect to be at it with the soldering iron soon.

 

Anticipating my biggest hurdle will be setting up with Snakeoil and all that that entails.

[realysm42]

@Chanh @Tasso and @anyone else that can help;

 

I'm going to dip my toes into soldering to upgrade various components (predominantly SOtM cards ) and could do with some advice on purchasing a:

 

1. decent soldering iron 
2. solder sucker and 
3. any associated equipment

please. I'm willing to spend what it takes to get something that lets you do the job well (and I'd be the bottleneck instead of the gear) but ideally don't want a SOTA uber station as I doubt I'll be that  serious. 

 

Any advice welcome,

 

Thanks in advance.

[AccuTidal]

@Chanh @Tasso and @anyone else that can help;

 

I'm going to dip my toes into soldering to upgrade various components (predominantly SOtM cards ) and could do with some advice on purchasing a:

 

1. decent soldering iron 
2. solder sucker and 
3. any associated equipment

please. I'm willing to spend what it takes to get something that lets you do the job well (and I'd be the bottleneck instead of the gear) but ideally don't want a SOTA uber station as I doubt I'll be that  serious. 

 

Any advice welcome,

 

Thanks in advance.

Sotm is pretty straight forward Martin. Don't apply too long on your joint, no more then 10 sec if possible. Otherwise the trace might lift, then you are in trouble with additional works.

All the best!

Edit: You are definitely needed a desoldering unit with suction gun. It's your friend!