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PMC Speakers Owners & Discussion Thread

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4 hours ago, twofires said:

Hi all,

 

Quick question for the PMC gurus here - what would you say is the minimum amplification required for the PMC Twenty5 21 or Twenty5 22s in a smallish room to moderate volumes (maybe 90dB max)? I occasionally see 30-200w bandied about, but when it comes down to it the advice from owners seems to be "all of the watts".

 

The reason I ask is that I'm planning to tuck away some money and treat myself to a new pair of speakers for my 40th, but I'm not sure if my Marantz PM8006 has what it takes to power the PMCs (70w into 8ohms).

 

Thoughts?

Hi there TwoFires,

 

I finally own a pair of Twenty5.22 and have been running them with a Rega Brio R (50w into 8ohms) for the last few weeks or so and I am very happy to report that I am very, very satisfied with how much power is there.  :D Absolutely marvellous! You will be very happy with the volume level achieved, it can be LOUD. I really haven't had the need to go beyond 9 o'clock, only today I took it up to 10 o'clock with a lower level recording. I was actually surprised as to how easy the Twenty5. 22 are to run.

The clarity, is absolutely superb. Fleetwood Mac sounded incredible. I played some techno-house as well and the bass is just too good, more felt than heard. 

 

Yes, I have been recommended the same, that the more power the better. But this has more to do with "head room" not necessarily volume levels. The linearity of the amplifier, in simple terms, the speakers will show you more. So the more amp watts you can afford the better,  but sometimes I wonder if we are trying to split hair...

In addition, the Twenty5.21 (86.5db) are slightly harder to drive than the Twenty5.22's (89db), this is another reason I went for the Twenty5.22 but the Brio R just doesn't seem to have a sweat... 50w into 8ohms of pure bliss...

 

I hope this helps and great choice by the way!

PMC-twenty5-22-RegaBrioR.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Andpi said:

Hi there TwoFires,

 

I finally own a pair of Twenty5.22 and have been running them with a Rega Brio R (50w into 8ohms) for the last few weeks or so and I am very happy to report that I am very, very satisfied with how much power is there.  :D Absolutely marvellous! You will be very happy with the volume level achieved, it can be LOUD. I really haven't had the need to go beyond 9 o'clock, only today I took it up to 10 o'clock with a lower level recording. I was actually surprised as to how easy the Twenty5. 22 are to run.

The clarity, is absolutely superb. Fleetwood Mac sounded incredible. I played some techno-house as well and the bass is just too good, more felt than heard. 

 

Yes, I have been recommended the same, that the more power the better. But this has more to do with "head room" not necessarily volume levels. The linearity of the amplifier, in simple terms, the speakers will show you more. So the more amp watts you can afford the better,  but sometimes I wonder if we are trying to split hair...

In addition, the Twenty5.21 (86.5db) are slightly harder to drive than the Twenty5.22's (89db), this is another reason I went for the Twenty5.22 but the Brio R just doesn't seem to have a sweat... 50w into 8ohms of pure bliss...

 

I hope this helps and great choice by the way!

PMC-twenty5-22-RegaBrioR.jpg

That's encouraging! 

 

I think both the Rega and the Marantz are regarded as being fairly conservatively specced, but even so, it's good to hear 50w will do the job,  let alone 70.

 

It seems like every speaker review I read is either "Speaker X is an easy load best experienced with a 5w tube amp" or "Speaker Y is a difficult load requiring 200wpc minimum to fully open up". Hard to know where you stand with an amp somewhere in between. 

 

It's not so much a choice as a shortlist at the moment - the 40th is a while off, but the PMCs are quite striking and I am quite fond of a lot of bass in a small place. 😁

 

You say that you "finally" own the PMCs - how long had you been after a pair? Sounds like you're in your happy place now!

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11 hours ago, twofires said:

It seems like every speaker review I read is either "Speaker X is an easy load best experienced with a 5w tube amp" or "Speaker Y is a difficult load requiring 200wpc minimum to fully open up". Hard to know where you stand with an amp somewhere in between. 

Hi Twofires,

Yes, reviews would normally go for high wattage amplification because of the head room. Amplifiers only have a percentage of linearity and the more watts the better the signal input will translate into what you hear. It means also that when the amplifier needs to pump out more then it can easily do it. And yes, the more watts you have and the more volume you apply, depending on the speaker of course, may end up causing damage. But again this is about applying volume. In saying that, the little Rega Brio R is rated at 50w into 8ohms, but the Sanken Darlington transistors are rated at 150w. It is a very special little amp which can run Magnepans without toasting. (but I wouldn't)(http://www.tonepublications.com/spotlight/rega-brio-r-worlds-first-review/)

 

11 hours ago, twofires said:

It's not so much a choice as a shortlist at the moment - the 40th is a while off, but the PMCs are quite striking and I am quite fond of a lot of bass in a small place. 😁

Oh yes, that was my dream two years ago for my 40th birthday. I wanted some grown up speakers, but it couldn't happen at the time (mortgage, kids etc). The Twenty5 .22 bass is very special, (Same for all PMCs) I really haven't heard anything like it. It is so absolutely precise, but it is not a big rumbling explosion in the room. It is hard to describe. If the bass is there it will just produce it in a controlled non masking way. The bass doesn't hide the rest of the music. It is tremendous. I played an old CD, Terry Lee Junior, Chocolate Chords and the bass on this is so captivating, a real joy. So much so that I ended up buying more Terry Lee Junior CDs.

But I wouldn't think about it as a subwoofer... The other thing I noticed is that I could feel more the bass. I could certainly feel it under the rug on the floor boards. The bass doesn't go around the room booming. I love it.

Another thing, these speakers are very clear, you can really hear everything, so I noticed that I was just hooked, but then quickly realised that it wasn't just that, it became a very emotional thing. I played Jose Gonzales, I could hear the humming of the amp next to him in the room and is like I can feel the force with which the guy plucks the cords, before I never heard (or felt) those plucks with such intensity. Amazing. The first day I had them I found myself a bit teary a couple of times. Not many speakers have the ability to translate that. It is not just what you hear, but what makes you feel. It is the depth with which a piano or voice feels.

On specs the Twenty5 .22 have a much bigger bass driver , 6.5", versus the Twenty5 .21, 5.5".

 

11 hours ago, twofires said:

You say that you "finally" own the PMCs - how long had you been after a pair? Sounds like you're in your happy place now!

I first listen to them about 6 years ago, possibly the Twenty 22. But at the time I really didn't even look much more into it as we had other financial priorities. So sometime early this year I started investigating again. Due to the price I was also looking at other non PMC options but I always came to the same conclusion. These were the speakers I really wanted in the long term.

Here in Stereonet PMC owners have been great, there is a lot of knowledge around. 

Also to note, is that speakers and gear always sound better at my place than at the HI-Fi shop, perhaps I am more used to the acoustics in my lounge room?

So yes, I do feel like I am in a very happy place and it took me a lot of effort to get here. I really don't see myself changing for something else. I am only intending to upgrade the amplifier for more watts, but there is no rush. I would still keep the Brio-R for a second system. It is that good.

 

If you need to know more and perhaps if you live close by, just PM me.

 

Cheers.

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@Andpi They certainly sound like winners from your description, and more or less the qualities I'm looking for. 

 

Re: watts, if it came down to it I have a Rotel RA-1592 out in the lounge that can put 200w into 8 ohms comfortably, but it has a different character to the Marantz. The Rotel system (powering KEFs) is a very clean, clinical setup. For the second system I'm looking for energy and character and punch. The amp isn't going to change for me (200w of Marantz comes in the form of the PM10S1 at $13000, which is about 10k more than I have ever spent or likely will ever spend on amplification). 

 

The current speaker shortlist is;

 

- PMC Twenty5 22 (have yet to hear them, but am 2 years off at the moment so don't want to bother people with auditions just yet)

 

- Dynaudio Contour 20 (haven't heard these specifically, but have a general idea of the Dyn sound)

 

- ProAc Response D2 (gorgeous sound with a cello-like timbre to the bass, sounds great with my amp)

 

- Krix Esoterix Altum (have heard these briefly and they were certainly fleshing out AC/DC better than I'd heard before)

 

Looks wise, I think the PMCs top the list, with the more traditional ProAcs in Ebony a close second. 

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8 hours ago, twofires said:

@Andpi They certainly sound like winners from your description, and more or less the qualities I'm looking for. 

 

Re: watts, if it came down to it I have a Rotel RA-1592 out in the lounge that can put 200w into 8 ohms comfortably, but it has a different character to the Marantz. The Rotel system (powering KEFs) is a very clean, clinical setup. For the second system I'm looking for energy and character and punch. The amp isn't going to change for me (200w of Marantz comes in the form of the PM10S1 at $13000, which is about 10k more than I have ever spent or likely will ever spend on amplification). 

 

The current speaker shortlist is;

 

- PMC Twenty5 22 (have yet to hear them, but am 2 years off at the moment so don't want to bother people with auditions just yet)

 

- Dynaudio Contour 20 (haven't heard these specifically, but have a general idea of the Dyn sound)

 

- ProAc Response D2 (gorgeous sound with a cello-like timbre to the bass, sounds great with my amp)

 

- Krix Esoterix Altum (have heard these briefly and they were certainly fleshing out AC/DC better than I'd heard before)

 

Looks wise, I think the PMCs top the list, with the more traditional ProAcs in Ebony a close second. 

Great list and good luck with the journey! Let us know how you go with those PMC :D

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10 hours ago, twofires said:

@Andpi They certainly sound like winners from your description, and more or less the qualities I'm looking for. 

 

Re: watts, if it came down to it I have a Rotel RA-1592 out in the lounge that can put 200w into 8 ohms comfortably, but it has a different character to the Marantz. The Rotel system (powering KEFs) is a very clean, clinical setup. For the second system I'm looking for energy and character and punch. The amp isn't going to change for me (200w of Marantz comes in the form of the PM10S1 at $13000, which is about 10k more than I have ever spent or likely will ever spend on amplification). 

 

The current speaker shortlist is;

 

- PMC Twenty5 22 (have yet to hear them, but am 2 years off at the moment so don't want to bother people with auditions just yet)

 

- Dynaudio Contour 20 (haven't heard these specifically, but have a general idea of the Dyn sound)

 

- ProAc Response D2 (gorgeous sound with a cello-like timbre to the bass, sounds great with my amp)

 

- Krix Esoterix Altum (have heard these briefly and they were certainly fleshing out AC/DC better than I'd heard before)

 

Looks wise, I think the PMCs top the list, with the more traditional ProAcs in Ebony a close second. 

Hi twofires. Might just butt in here.

(Sick of the2 way conversation, yawn 😀). Just buy the bloody things. You will never regret it. Later on just upgrade to a higher amp. C'mon you know you want too.

 

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7 hours ago, needlerunner said:

Just buy the bloody things. You will never regret it. Later on just upgrade to a higher amp.

I agree, when you get your hard earned cash go for it. I really doubt that you'd be disappointed. Although if you are trying to achieve perfection you may never be happy with anything you get... ever. 

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On 12/10/2019 at 5:24 PM, twofires said:

 not sure if my Marantz PM8006 has what it takes to power the PMCs (70w into 8ohms).

 

Thoughts?

It does have enough power but the quality of amp and source is quite important with PMC. 

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1 hour ago, Irek said:

It does have enough power but the quality of amp and source is quite important with PMC. 

Irek is right. The PMC just tells it how it is. 

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9 hours ago, needlerunner said:

Later on just upgrade to a higher amp.

 

1 hour ago, Irek said:

It does have enough power but the quality of amp and source is quite important with PMC.

See this is the thing - it seems like the old rule about spending most of your budget on your speakers is a thing of the past. Speaker manufacturers now know they can build speakers that are difficult to drive and that's seen as a sign of a good speaker. You wind up in situations where reviewers listen to $1k speakers with $15k amps, and a speaker manufacturer like PMC can sell a speaker for $5500 and only recommend amps from a brand that starts at $7k.

 

Of course, there's always the possibility that, on the consumer side of things, a fair bit of this is cognitive dissonance at work - if you've spent $7000 on an amp, you're not going to want to accept that you could have achieved the same sounds for a third of the cost. Not talking about anyone here, just about the general consumer wisdom surrounding the product. 

 

1 hour ago, Andpi said:

Although if you are trying to achieve perfection you may never be happy with anything you get... ever. 

 

Definitely agree that perfection is a fool's errand - I'm more trying to make the best choice for my tastes within budget, which, for the moment, involves sticking with the PM8006.

 

Does anyone know of anyone running PMC with Marantz? It doesn't seem a common combo. 

Edited by twofires

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Anyway, I'm polluting this thread with my own concerns. 😅 I'll leave off. Thank you all for your help!

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I'll have to inform my mate that Peter now uses Bryston amps. He definately used to use Plinius when he spoke to him. This was in 2008 though. He thought it strange too that he didn't use Bryston. I must get hold of a Bryston one day. 

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2 hours ago, twofires said:

See this is the thing - it seems like the old rule about spending most of your budget on your speakers is a thing of the past.

I think the amp should cost 50% - 200% speakers price. Starting from Rega Brio. 

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9 hours ago, twofires said:

 

See this is the thing - it seems like the old rule about spending most of your budget on your speakers is a thing of the past. Speaker manufacturers now know they can build speakers that are difficult to drive and that's seen as a sign of a good speaker. You wind up in situations where reviewers listen to $1k speakers with $15k amps, and a speaker manufacturer like PMC can sell a speaker for $5500 and only recommend amps from a brand that starts at $7k.

 

Of course, there's always the possibility that, on the consumer side of things, a fair bit of this is cognitive dissonance at work - if you've spent $7000 on an amp, you're not going to want to accept that you could have achieved the same sounds for a third of the cost. Not talking about anyone here, just about the general consumer wisdom surrounding the product. 

 

 

Definitely agree that perfection is a fool's errand - I'm more trying to make the best choice for my tastes within budget, which, for the moment, involves sticking with the PM8006.

 

Does anyone know of anyone running PMC with Marantz? It doesn't seem a common combo. 

To put not too finer point on this conversation, and stating what l have learnt on this PMC journey. Fact. Your amp will power the PMCs fine.  Fact. But not to their optimum potentual. Fact. A 200wpc will make them really sing. Fact. If you are not prepared to upgrade to said amp. Might be better off looking at other speakers. But first l would demo the speakers of your choice, with your amp, in your home. You might be pleasantly supprised.

 

Hifi is an abstact science with way too many variables. But only you can make the decision.  People on this site have given you good sound information, based on their own experiences. Now it's up to you to, to what you do with it.

 

Look, know what you are going through, and like you very recently, l was very unsure what to do also. But l listened to what other PMC owners had to say, and in the main, most advocated an amp upward of 150-200wpc. I took that advice, went with it, and have had not one single regret. If anything, l now listen more than l ever did. All the best.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, blakey72 said:

I'll have to inform my mate that Peter now uses Bryston amps. He definately used to use Plinius when he spoke to him. This was in 2008 though. He thought it strange too that he didn't use Bryston. I must get hold of a Bryston one day. 

Hi Blake. You gave me a bum steer. I purchased my PMCs purely based on this, now wrong, information. My lawyer will be contacting yours shortly. Hope you are cashed up.

 

Nah, only joshing. Could not be happier with my Plinius. My twenty.23s are literally singing now that everything's is run/burnt in.

Contrary to what other people think, l think it is a match made in heaven. Maybe the Bryston's are a better match. But how much money would you have to spend to achieve that aim. When you do have a listen let me know.

 

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16 minutes ago, needlerunner said:

Hi Blake. You gave me a bum steer. I purchased my PMCs purely based on this, now wrong, information. My lawyer will be contacting yours shortly. Hope you are cashed up.

 

Nah, only joshing. Could not be happier with my Plinius. My twenty.23s are literally singing now that everything's is run/burnt in.

Contrary to what other people think, l think it is a match made in heaven. Maybe the Bryston's are a better match. But how much money would you have to spend to achieve that aim. When you do have a listen let me know.

 

I wouldn't think it's wrong actually. I spoke to my 'friend' who is very very deeply embedded into the audio industry and he is thinking along the same lines as me. 

 

1. I, being worth nothing own 4 systems and run in my humble home. What are the chances that CEO Peter worth $5, is going to have one system in his very boring lacking life. I think he might get the itch to try other gear.....Just perhaps.

 

2. How good would it look? Big story on CEO of PMC driving his listening system on lovely sounding Plinius gear. Hang on..... We use Bryston in our company.

 

And my thoughts. I don't think the step up to something like the 135w/ch - Bryston B1353 is going to gain you $4000 in sound improvement over the 200w/ch Plinius Hautonga. Maybe a different sound? I'll try to find out. And Plinius is a highly disliked brand 😋 so anyone choosing this brand to pair with their PMC's would have to have PMS. 

 

I've notified my high priced lawyers and intend to have some high level talks 🙃

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