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Having never heard PMC speakers and doing a little reading about them and youtubing a few clips of them in action, one of the overwhelming attributes that users seem to mention is the extended bass.

 

Is it a prominent feature, does it add an extra dollop to every recording? Due to where I live and the way I live I have grown used to small bookshelf speakers, ported front or back, with a frequency response of 55Hz or 65 or even 70Hz and never found them wanting as long as the bass was well formed and contoured and not some anonymous blot on the lower end.

 

Sansui Acoustic Suspension 2 ways probably get down into the 45Hz zone, but being a sealed (almost sealed being near to 50 years old) box the same kind of extension that is spoken here about the PMC speakers doesn't seem to be the case.

 

So at low to moderate volumes is the bass still prominent or am I imagining that incorrectly, is it well integrated and not obtrusive? All the clips I checked out on Youtube with 21 and 22 standmounts seem to have music tracks with highlighted bass lines.

 

Can someone please give me an idea as the overall sonic image the PMC standmounts present? Have I got the wrong end of the stick?

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On 12/07/2017 at 8:02 PM, Phototropic said:

I ended up having a crack at making my own stands, taking inspiration from the good old threaded rod audio stands you see kicking around, total cost of $80.
I'm sure there are plenty of people ready to pipe up telling me they won't sound as good as store bought stands but  with 6mm thick steel on top and plenty of mass i think they work a treat and bring something a bit different to the table.

20170712_192603.jpg

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20170712_200106.jpg

 

Congrats and well done on the stands, they look like they belong with those speakers not to mention the pro finish. And all that for only $80?

 

As for sound quality I think most would be hard pressed to hear that much of a difference.

 

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I listened to the large floor standing PMC through McIntosh pre/power combo. I found the bass was tight and very controlled. But not overly thumping, but compared to the sonus Faber Olympica the SF were well ahead in bass. Both in depth and volume. PMC was king for mid range and highs. 

 

But alas that is my opinion. And truth be told I am a bit of a bass junkie. GUILTY as charged.

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20 hours ago, Hertzgeek said:

I listened to the large floor standing PMC through McIntosh pre/power combo. I found the bass was tight and very controlled. But not overly thumping, but compared to the sonus Faber Olympica the SF were well ahead in bass. Both in depth and volume. PMC was king for mid range and highs. 

 

But alas that is my opinion. And truth be told I am a bit of a bass junkie. GUILTY as charged.

It's great to do comparisons like this, but I'd be careful about a broad generalisation concerning bass performance of the PMCs.  Amplifier and room position make such a big difference to the bass performance in side-by-side comparisons.  If you're serious about these speakers give em a go with a decent solid state amp.  Nothing against tube amps... but in my experience they won't bring out the best bass performance PMC speakers.

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25 minutes ago, Stereophilus said:

It's great to do comparisons like this, but I'd be careful about a broad generalisation concerning bass performance of the PMCs.  Amplifier and room position make such a big difference to the bass performance in side-by-side comparisons.  If you're serious about these speakers give em a go with a decent solid state amp.  Nothing against tube amps... but in my experience they won't bring out the best bass performance PMC speakers.

 

Agreed, even though they were side by side with even distances off the wall some are better suited to that set up. Honestly though I was to a point of picking hair's between the two. Both were phenomenal in their own way.

 

If you are sitting at home with them I am very sure your happy, if only they made the PMC to look a little better. Getting them past wife approval could be tough.

 

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My PMC Twenty5.22 pair arrived today. Wow. I would say that FOR THEIR SIZE the bass is tremendously deep. Not at all overpowering or slow. Lots of texture and detail. Voices are sublime. Wonderful soundstage. I may not emerge from the listening room until 2018.


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My goodness they're sensitive to placement! So responsive to small adjustments. It'll be a joy finding the sweet spot.


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It turns out that in my room, PMC's recommendation for placement (toed in to meet 50cm behind your head) is just perfect.


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On 19/07/2017 at 8:55 PM, AussieMick said:

My PMC Twenty5.22 pair arrived today. Wow. I would say that FOR THEIR SIZE the bass is tremendously deep. Not at all overpowering or slow. Lots of texture and detail. Voices are sublime. Wonderful soundstage. I may not emerge from the listening room until 2018.


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I was never really a big believer in the whole "It takes x amount of hours for a speaker to open up" but in the case of the PMC's, or at least the Twenty5.22's it actually rings true.
My initial thoughts when i first set them up was they didn't sound as good as what i heard in store, they were a bit unexciting to be honest.
Fast forward a few weeks and i was being delivered wow moments over and over.

In comparison, a few years ago i bought a pair of B&W 804 D2's, which are a full tower, 4 x bass drivers not to mention twice the price, since getting the PMC's i have barely touched the
B&W's and will likely sell them off to fund a pair of Twenty5.26's in the future.

The best is yet to come Michael!

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I was never really a big believer in the whole "It takes x amount of hours for a speaker to open up" but in the case of the PMC's, or at least the Twenty5.22's it actually rings true.
My initial thoughts when i first set them up was they didn't sound as good as what i heard in store, they were a bit unexciting to be honest.
Fast forward a few weeks and i was being delivered wow moments over and over.

In comparison, a few years ago i bought a pair of B&W 804 D2's, which are a full tower, 4 x bass drivers not to mention twice the price, since getting the PMC's i have barely touched the
B&W's and will likely sell them off to fund a pair of Twenty5.26's in the future.

The best is yet to come Michael!

Yes, definitely. I'm enjoying the journey in the meantime, though.


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I'm looking around and finding it VERY hard to find something better than the PMC's for the price.

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Agreed. My final listening session before purchase also included the Sonus faber Olympica I. No contest, even at $2k more.
Also in the mix was the Focal 1008Be. It's wonderful in so many ways! However, it doesn't go as deep, doesn't punch as well, and while it's close in terms of micro dynamics, doesn't come close in big dynamic swings. I suspect that's related to having less extension. That was a closer call, but it's still $1,400 more than the PMC. I reckon they've reset the bar.


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Voices via the Twenty5.22 are sublime. Amazing.


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They are very good at disappearing too. Great sound stage with a good amp.

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Okay, time for an update on the Twenty5.22's. They've now had the 50+ hours PMC recommend in order to get the moving parts loosened up and they're sounding settled in to my room.

Impressions tonight are of fabulous detail and really quiet backgrounds, like there's nothing coming out that isn't musical information. They do say they're aiming for ultra low distortion.

They're going deeper now, the bass filling out a little more and also it's now completely even.

Dynamics on the macro level are stunning. Every phrase played or sung has so much shape and character!

Instruments are fleshed out wonderfully. Wooden bodies, not just strings. Head and chests, not just vocal chords.

Sweetness! An initial treble stridency has disappeared. Still detailed, but integrated.

Overall, the speakers have disappeared on appropriate material, leaving only the music. Piano sounds fantastic. I've never heard just how amazing PF's The Wall is from a recording and engineering perspective.

I am a very, very happy man.


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By the way, running them from a Rega RP8/2M Black into a Graham Slee Reflex M and C.E.C TL5 transport, into Graham Slee Majestic preamp/DAC, onto Graham Slee Proprius monoblocks. All stuck together with, well...Graham Slee cables.

Yes 25W (25 Yorkshire watts!) drives and controls the PMC's bloody wonderfully.


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And they do serious wig out levels, too. They can certainly take a beating.


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Heard them at Carlton AV at 2 separate demos.  Not impressed. 

Sorry, just realized this thread is for PMC owners.  That's not me :offtopic:

Edited by generichs

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Heard them at Carlton AV at 2 separate demos.  Not impressed. 
Sorry, just realized this thread is for PMC owners.  That's not me :offtopic:

That's fair enough, I don't think one speaker can be all things to all people. What didn't you like? Or was it just not grabbing you? What did you prefer? Do you remember what amp was doing the driving? Always interested to hear another idea.
Mick


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The sound of these speakers are too dry, lean and colorless for me.  Maybe it is the electronics in the systems.  Devialet on one; ARC/Bryston I think on another and Rotel on the third.  No finesse in the sound.

 

I don't think it is just these speakers.  Recently I have heard other rated brands which sound similar.  The dry coloration is prevalent at the moment.   The latest B&W 800s are drier than their last versions.  You're supposed to be less colored with newer models. 

 

In box speakers that I've heard recently, I prefer Dynaudio, Wilson & Gaudier.  There are probably others, but they don't come to mind.

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I can see what you're saying. I'm also a fan of Dynaudio, having had dyn-cone based speakers for a long time, and also having enjoyed many other models I've heard.
At CAV I heard the PMC speakers with Acoustic Research electronics and loved the physical presence and vivid, expressive sound.
Just goes to show we should all be listening far and wide to hear what best floats our personal boats.


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Thought I would make a few comments now my Twenty5.22s have somewhere between 50 – 100 hrs on them.

 

Listening impressions are pretty much in line with @AussieMick post yesterday. I have been most impressed by what I think is best described as the ambience of the reproduction which Mick sort of eluded to. The sense of what was intended or inadvertently created at the recording stage through production and/or the recording method and environment. I know this is spruiked by PMC (among many others) but it stood out before the marketing planted any placebo seed. 

 

Some albums I’ve listened to have been ‘A Day At The Races’, an old pressing of ‘Rubber Soul’, ‘Pink Moon’, ‘Boys For Pele’ (Tori Amos), ‘Isle Of Manx’ (Harry Manx), ‘Trinity Session’ (Cowboy Junkies)  and even Miles Davis on Nils Frahm’s ‘Late Night Tales’. These pieces are quite different in terms of the ambience / setting the artist was in, or was trying to conure, at the time of recording. The PMCs reproduce this in a truthful and positive way IMO. For e.g. the impression of the Beatles thrashing it out in a 1960s studio was fantastic, as was the open church-like feel of the Trinity Session recording.

 

Playing around with toe-in I find less is more in my far from standard rectangular listening room. Giving them a bit more (~ 8%) the soundstage narrowed far too much to a point it was off-centre, and the imaging was unrealistic, compared to what I started at (~ 5%). Probably sacrificing a bit of detail (more listening required), slightly less angle again produced a deeper, wider and more believable soundstage, with well-spaced and very stable imaging. Listening to Trinity Session was excellent in this respect.

 

To put things into perspective I’ve come from Dynaudio X12s, which as good as they were, can’t be expected to have the same abilities as the much larger PMCs, and could be seen as a relatively low base. I also haven’t done a great deal of listening but am looking forward to it. As an interesting measure my (non-HiFi loving) wife used to always think that our system sounded ‘fine’ so didn’t see the value in upgrading. But since the 5.22s have been in action she is making regular comments on how great everything sounds and best of all is listening to more music again.

 

System wise the speakers are being driven by a W4S STi500 (yep Class D). Source wise is Aries Mini, or old Phillips CDP as transport, into Metrum Musette DAC, or vinyl via Technics 1200 Mk5 /Jelco/DV10x5, and Dynavector P75 phono stage. Stands are Apollo (500 mm) mass filled.

 

Here are a couple of iPhone pics. Not great with the sun and gloss black.

 

IMG_4734.thumb.JPG.d4e3034ca191a3ab7799164195889f1d.JPGIMG_4737.thumb.JPG.d930cb10dd456f5709349f0d4f6383ca.JPG

Edited by adamg

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Well I'm not a PMC owner - yet, but I have been very impressed with the Adam's Twenty5 .22.

 

Yes I/m ready to trade up from my loved Zu's sound - I must be ageing.

 

The question i'd like to ask is who has heard the twenty5 range for a comparison.

How to the .22 compare with the .24 - same size driver's

and then onto the .26's?

I have no issue with the .22 sound it's just I'm not into stands really.  I like the full box experience.

 

Any thoughts appreciated 

cheers Damo.

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I've heard the entire range a few times and for me the standouts of the range are the .22 and .26 in terms of balance. The .23 was warmer than the .22 but it had nowhere near the detail and openness.


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