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25 minutes ago, needlerunner said:

People on this site have given you good sound information, based on their own experiences. Now it's up to you to, to what you do with it.

Hopefully I haven't come across as ungrateful for that information - the conclusion you've summarized wasn't immediately apparent to me (possibly I'm just dense) hence the additional queries.

 

On the face of it, the answers were at odds with one another:

 

- those are enough watts

- those are not enough watts

- those aren't sufficient quality watts

 

From your summary what I'm getting is "whether the amp is good enough depends on your personal definition of 'good enough', and it's possible that your taste might overshoot your wallet where PMC amplification is concerned, but no, nothing is going to blow up if you use those speakers with that amp". If I have that right it makes sense and seems reasonable. Pretty much the same story with my KEF stuff. Thank you for the help! 

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28 minutes ago, twofires said:

 

Hopefully I haven't come across as ungrateful for that information - the conclusion you've summarized wasn't immediately apparent to me (possibly I'm just dense) hence the additional queries.

 

On the face of it, the answers were at odds with one another:

 

- those are enough watts

- those are not enough watts

- those aren't sufficient quality watts

 

From your summary what I'm getting is "whether the amp is good enough depends on your personal definition of 'good enough', and it's possible that your taste might overshoot your wallet where PMC amplification is concerned, but no, nothing is going to blow up if you use those speakers with that amp". If I have that right it makes sense and seems reasonable. Pretty much the same story with my KEF stuff. Thank you for the help! 

Hi mate. I wouldn't be so worried about watts with driving PMC's, they aren't hard to drive. It's more about getting the right amp to match. Anything from 50-75w/ch will happily drive the PMC's to very loud levels. I ran mine on a Exposure 2010 (50w/ch) and a 2010S2 (75w/ch) and had no troubles at all. I went to the Plinius (200w/ch) and the sound changed slightly (not greatly louder) but as said more headroom. 

 

The louder passages just seemed to be a little louder and more controlled. I could live with either Exposure amp but the Plinius came along so I grabbed it.  There is nothing wrong with Marantz gear and it will drive PMC's no problem at all. Nothing will blow up or walk out in protest 😜 You will just find a better match may gain you sound improvements. Shoot away if you have more questions (but don't ask me as I'll give you a bum steer!) :) 

Edited by blakey72

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Edited by blakey72

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1 hour ago, blakey72 said:

There is nothing wrong with Marantz gear and it will drive PMC's no problem at all. Nothing will blow up or walk out in protest 😜 You will just find a better match may gain you sound improvements.

Thanks mate. It's always difficult to tell what is going to get on with Marantz - it's definitely not a neutral amp. Forceful if a bit loose in the bass, and a bit of hair in the upper mids/lower treble. Like @needlerunner says, I'm just going to have to have a listen and find out.

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1 hour ago, blakey72 said:

Anything from 50-75w/ch will happily drive the PMC's to very loud levels. I ran mine on a Exposure 2010 (50w/ch) and a 2010S2 (75w/ch) and had no troubles at all. I went to the Plinius (200w/ch) and the sound changed slightly (not greatly louder) but as said more headroom. 

Hi Twofires,

Yes, I was a bit worried that I would have issues with the Rega Brio-R, PMC Twenty5 .22 combination but I was pleasantly surprised. I am very satisfied with the result, it gives me the sound I want and to me and my humble ears the combination shines.

Based on more watts those speakers can give much more, but I will do it later when I get the funds and the desire to do so because when I turn my system on as it is, it just gives me a smile. :)

I could have waited to have more money for the amp as well, and this was my initial plan, but I am glad I didn't follow and just did it.

So go for it and enjoy it, when the time comes do improvements, at your own pace.

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You can always have more watts, more current, more power, better quality watts.......But what are you willing to pay...

 

 

My 35w/ch Sansui AU-4900 (1977) sounds damn amazing on my 'hard to drive' Usher S-520's!

Edited by blakey72

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17 minutes ago, Andpi said:

I could have waited to have more money for the amp as well, and this was my initial plan, but I am glad I didn't follow and just did it.

So go for it and enjoy it, when the time comes do improvements, at your own pace.

New amp when I'm 45 then? I'm not the most patient fella, but we'll see how I go!

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This guy is very good at describing the PMC sound.

 

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17 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

You can always have more watts, more current, more power, better quality watts.......But what are you willing to pay...

 

 

My 35w/ch Sansui AU-4900 (1977) sounds damn amazing on my 'hard to drive' Usher S-520's!

Yeah, I'll admit I did look at a 500wpc Musical Fidelity online for far too much money earlier today thinking "what if?", but there comes a point you have to stop playing leapfrog. 

 

As for your Sansui, I've been reading SNA long enough to know Sansuis are special and Sansui watts are made of pixie dust and moonbeams. 🤣 

 

Seriously though, Sansui amps are on a long list of things to try at least once. A very, very long list. 

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6 minutes ago, twofires said:

Yeah, I'll admit I did look at a 500wpc Musical Fidelity online for far too much money earlier today thinking "what if?", but there comes a point you have to stop playing leapfrog. 

 

As for your Sansui, I've been reading SNA long enough to know Sansuis are special and Sansui watts are made of pixie dust and moonbeams. 🤣 

 

Seriously though, Sansui amps are on a long list of things to try at least once. A very, very long list. 

You don't have to pay much for the magic. Around $300-$350 will get you something like a AU-2900-3900. Try something in that era for the warm relaxing Sansui sound. Mine below

 

1002563874_Sansui2.jpg.488c3eb54dec8722f0c4d55520d1d059.jpg

 

Or you can go the whole hog. Also mine below

Alpha907.jpg.19f5de29466e89bf6eee030981f715f2.jpg

Alpha907-3.jpg.7721c5b2d7e169219f695ddfd1784206.jpg

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1 minute ago, blakey72 said:

You don't have to pay much for the magic. Around $300-$350 will get you something like a AU-2900-3900. Try something in that era for the warm relaxing Sansui sound. Mine below

 

1002563874_Sansui2.jpg.488c3eb54dec8722f0c4d55520d1d059.jpg

 

Or you can go the whole hog. Also mine below

Alpha907.jpg.19f5de29466e89bf6eee030981f715f2.jpg

Alpha907-3.jpg.7721c5b2d7e169219f695ddfd1784206.jpg

Love a tidy under-the-hood shot. No idea what I'm looking at from an engineering standpoint, but it looks fantastic. 😍

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I've got PMC Twenty5.26's and have tried a vast number of amps before settling on Musical Fidelity Nu Vista 600.

I tried a couple of 100 watt amps, even though well respected just didn't have the current delivery the 26's required, I auditioned a Plinius Hautonga 200/8 at Class A audio, not bad but you felt the speakers were capable of a lot more.

My budget was 5-6k so couldn't really go up the Plinius chain,  ventured to CAV where the Musical fidelity M6si was next. Once again not bad, but not convincing, good in a nutshell but not very,  so decided to try out the Nu Vista and an Audio Research pre power just shy of 30k. We used the Marantz SA-10 as the front end.

 

Oh my, don't be fooled into thinking these speakers don't require this level of quality because they do, they're so transparent and in their element, especially with the Audio Research pair revealing all the vividness and textures of a higher end speaker. 

The timing of the A/R was first class, matching the tempo of the twenty5.26's to a tee., but alas I couldn't go  there at that price and settled for the Nu Vista which was still a wonderful pairing, tonally in particular, albeit  not as fleet footed.

So basically my experiences differ from some, even though not hard to drive, the 25.26's benefit enormously with mega watts and current.

 

cheers Frank.

 

 

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4 hours ago, blakey72 said:

I wouldn't think it's wrong actually. I spoke to my 'friend' who is very very deeply embedded into the audio industry and he is thinking along the same lines as me. 

 

1. I, being worth nothing own 4 systems and run in my humble home. What are the chances that CEO Peter worth $5, is going to have one system in his very boring lacking life. I think he might get the itch to try other gear.....Just perhaps.

 

2. How good would it look? Big story on CEO of PMC driving his listening system on lovely sounding Plinius gear. Hang on..... We use Bryston in our company.

 

And my thoughts. I don't think the step up to something like the 135w/ch - Bryston B1353 is going to gain you $4000 in sound improvement over the 200w/ch Plinius Hautonga. Maybe a different sound? I'll try to find out. And Plinius is a highly disliked brand 😋 so anyone choosing this brand to pair with their PMC's would have to have PMS. 

 

I've notified my high priced lawyers and intend to have some high level talks 🙃

Looks like you and me Blake against the rest of the nay sayers. But we know a good thing when we see (hear) it don't we mate. Do your Sherlock Holmesey thing. Be interested in what you dig up.

 

I've decided to cancel my litigation. I might lose and have to forfeit my Plinius to you in damages.😢

 

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Never auditioned a MF with the pmc's. Never actually heard a mf to be honest. Great that you found a lovely match Frank, there would be/is different/better matches for different ears for sure. That's two different new amps to try. 

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23 hours ago, blakey72 said:

1002563874_Sansui2.jpg.488c3eb54dec8722f0c4d55520d1d059.jpg

This one looks so nice... It reminds me of when I was 17 years old and a much older friend of mine took us to his place after a drunk night out to check out his dad's Sansui amp. I remember so much that he just said "my dad likes to play it loud". And then we played Level 42 until early in the morning...

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7 minutes ago, Andpi said:

This one looks so nice... It reminds me of when I was 17 years old and a much older friend of mine took us to his place after a drunk night out to check out his dad's Sansui amp. I remember so much that he just said "my dad likes to play it loud". And then we played Level 42 until early in the morning...

Love these stories. Here's some more pics:

4900-1.JPG.1c099650241765f8a7661f2d69b06153.JPG4900-3.JPG.aa626d19a4f9963ae7f2bc3a7dada7f4.JPG

 

Caps and a few mods have been done.

Sanasuiarvo.jpg

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@blakey72that AU 907 looks beautiful, a credit to you for keeping it in impeccable order, love the internals, also reminds me of an old friend who upgraded to a full on Sansui set up some 40 years ago and how great an early Cold Chisel sounded on it.

So much nicer than me and my mates poxy Teacs and Yammies.

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1 minute ago, maximus said:

@blakey72that AU 907 looks beautiful, a credit to you for keeping it in impeccable order, love the internals, also reminds me of an old friend who upgraded to a full on Sansui set up some 40 years ago and how great an early Cold Chisel sounded on it.

So much nicer than me and my mates poxy Teacs and Yammies.

Thanks very much mate. I just love it. So much vintage brawn, just a tank! They didn't hold back when making these. Yes I spoil it a bit, no dust gathers there haha

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20 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

Thanks very much mate. I just love it. So much vintage brawn, just a tank! They didn't hold back when making these. Yes I spoil it a bit, no dust gathers there haha

Never liked Japanese amps or speakers. Found to my ears they sounded overly bright. Never heard a Sansui amp. But have only ever heard good things about them.

 

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The two Sansui set ups I heard from the day weren't bright, very balanced and pleasing on the ear, I remember them vividly, we played stacks of vinyl via a Sansui turntable, never too foward, just right, very musical comes to mind.

Makes you wonder where they'd be today if they didn't fold.

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Yes the older 70's "black face' models were far from bright. Very pleasing to listen to, almost valve like sound. The Alpha 907 has a different sound again. Not bright, very balanced and just an effortless sound. It just has so much juice it taunts the speakers (170w/ch) sounds more though.

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Hi Blakey72,

Thanks for sharing your beautiful Sansui amps, very nice indeed. Very lucky. Out of curiosity, how does an old Sansui play with PMCs?

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Edited by Andpi
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Well my time as a PMC owner has come to an end for now, it was quite the learning experience I must say so I thought it worth while to pass on what I learnt in the hope that it helps someone else maximise there speakers more quickly than I managed to!

 

I came to PMC speakers through owning a Bryston b135 2 amp and reading all the stories of what a great match Bryston and PMC are together.

 

I bought a pair of twenty 22's from Carlton AV at their excellent runout price, living in the Canberra area there was no way to audition but at that price it was worth the risk.

When I got them setup although I loved the definition of the soundstage they had some issues that made it hard to settle with them.

 

The bass seemed undefined and bloated, the sound was thin to my ears (I have seen this mentioned in reviews) and they were brighter than I like.

The bass was the easiest fix, I had to move them further into the room (than I would have preferred) away from the wall and get the toe in just right, as the book says, pointed slightly wide of my shoulders worked best for me.

 

I was using my existing stands and I now believe these were contributing to the thin sound.

I wanted to raise the speakers so that the tweeters were at ear height so did some research and found ISOPAD-PRO8 isolation pads online that would do the trick.

They got the tweeters where I wanted them but the difference that isolating the speakers from the stands made amazed me.

If you have bookshelf speakers and are not using the PMC stands I highly recommend some form of isolation, you don't need to spend much money and it made all the difference, they let the speakers sing and filled out the sound nicely.

 

I was still concerned with the brightness though so thought now it is time to try bi-wiring.

This is where fate kicked in and brought my PMC journey to a possibly premature end.

After a month the cables had not arrived so I enquired and found due to a large influx of orders mine had been overlooked in the rush.

No problem I said, hold the order for now and I would have a go at selling them.

After a month on SN there was no interest so I went ahead with the cable order, and wow, if you have bi-wire speakers then please bi-wire them.

As others on here have found, I can heartily recommend the Osbourn Datalink cables, they smoothed out the sound nicely and I was hearing beautiful music at last.

 

As I so often do with cars and motorcycles, when I get something working really well I somehow end up selling it!

Out of the blue I suddenly got 2 enquiries to my expired ad, one with a fair offer, so they have now moved on to a new home where I hope they give a lot of enjoyment.

 

Yesterday I reinvested some of that money into the STAX setup that was offered by Soul Superfly, he kindly played some tunes for me on his immaculate Quad ESL-57's, what a treat!

 

Last week end I went to Melbourne for the hi-fi show and on Sunday we went to Carlton AV for a further fix!

Paul was very generous with his time with us and I got to hear the Dynaudio Special 40's (which I expected to blow me away) head to head with the PMC Twenty5.22's.

Although my Dyn owning friend preferred the Special 40's I was very impressed with the 5.22's and could be tempted back by them in the future :)

 

 

Cheers

 

Glenn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20190825_150152.jpg

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22 minutes ago, Cappy 63 said:

Well my time as a PMC owner has come to an end for now, it was quite the learning experience I must say so I thought it worth while to pass on what I learnt in the hope that it helps someone else maximise there speakers more quickly than I managed to!

 

I came to PMC speakers through owning a Bryston b135 2 amp and reading all the stories of what a great match Bryston and PMC are together.

 

I bought a pair of twenty 22's from Carlton AV at their excellent runout price, living in the Canberra area there was no way to audition but at that price it was worth the risk.

When I got them setup although I loved the definition of the soundstage they had some issues that made it hard to settle with them.

 

The bass seemed undefined and bloated, the sound was thin to my ears (I have seen this mentioned in reviews) and they were brighter than I like.

The bass was the easiest fix, I had to move them further into the room (than I would have preferred) away from the wall and get the toe in just right, as the book says, pointed slightly wide of my shoulders worked best for me.

 

I was using my existing stands and I now believe these were contributing to the thin sound.

I wanted to raise the speakers so that the tweeters were at ear height so did some research and found ISOPAD-PRO8 isolation pads online that would do the trick.

They got the tweeters where I wanted them but the difference that isolating the speakers from the stands made amazed me.

If you have bookshelf speakers and are not using the PMC stands I highly recommend some form of isolation, you don't need to spend much money and it made all the difference, they let the speakers sing and filled out the sound nicely.

 

I was still concerned with the brightness though so thought now it is time to try bi-wiring.

This is where fate kicked in and brought my PMC journey to a possibly premature end.

After a month the cables had not arrived so I enquired and found due to a large influx of orders mine had been overlooked in the rush.

No problem I said, hold the order for now and I would have a go at selling them.

After a month on SN there was no interest so I went ahead with the cable order, and wow, if you have bi-wire speakers then please bi-wire them.

As others on here have found, I can heartily recommend the Osbourn Datalink cables, they smoothed out the sound nicely and I was hearing beautiful music at last.

 

As I so often do with cars and motorcycles, when I get something working really well I somehow end up selling it!

Out of the blue I suddenly got 2 enquiries to my expired ad, one with a fair offer, so they have now moved on to a new home where I hope they give a lot of enjoyment.

 

Yesterday I reinvested some of that money into the STAX setup that was offered by Soul Superfly, he kindly played some tunes for me on his immaculate Quad ESL-57's, what a treat!

 

Last week end I went to Melbourne for the hi-fi show and on Sunday we went to Carlton AV for a further fix!

Paul was very generous with his time with us and I got to hear the Dynaudio Special 40's (which I expected to blow me away) head to head with the PMC Twenty5.22's.

Although my Dyn owning friend preferred the Special 40's I was very impressed with the 5.22's and could be tempted back by them in the future :)

 

 

Cheers

 

Glenn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20190825_150152.jpg

Good luck with what ever you go with Glen. I too, recently bi-wired my twenty.23s. I couldn't believe the difference that it made. It wasn't a night and day difference. But they did smooth the thin bass out and give it more punch, and everything else seemed to project better. Like you, I'm not sure if these are my end game speakers. But l do like them, they do seem to work well in my smallish room. Will Probably keep for a couple of years and then re-evaluate. Who knows, maybe the twenty five series, that l have yet to hear. And they do have an agent in Perth. But I'm also thinking  Spendor or Harbeths. Even ATCs, if l can get passed the look.

 

 

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