PMC Speakers Owners & Discussion Thread

[RCADees]

9 hours ago, needlerunner said:

Hey mate. Thanks for asking.

The speakers have done around 80 hours and sounding better every day. Sound nothing like it when l first plugged them in. I was always a bit skeptical about break in/run in for components. But my experience has blown that myth out the water.

 

Have spent a lot of time with placement, and have found a compromise I'm happy with. I say compromise, because l have them only 18" of the wall. Would ideally love at least a metre. But alas, no more room. Got them toed in an inch. To me they sound really great now. Bass is great, vocals are crystal clear, plenty of height and depth.

Sound stage is pretty good, but at 5', could do with going to 6 to 8 feet, again though no room. Would put one speaker near a wall and the other would have a bookcase in front of it. So this is as good as it gets.

 

Love the Plinius. As good synergy with the rest of the system. The thing l like most is that on very low volume, Everything is clear and well pronounced.

 

I really jagged it considering that l had not heard the amp or the speakers, buying both blind. But mate couldn't be happier. Everything worked out really well.

Cheers

 

That is really great to hear. It seems like you finally found the sweet spot. 

I was a bit worried a while back because you sounded very disappointed so it is great to know that the running is absolutely necessary. It is a substantial investment and that shows how hard can be to get this done right even after so much research, listening to all sorts of opinions, demoing etc. 

It is awesome to have so much knowledge here from all those experienced PMC owners, yet it also proves that you will only really really know once you try the whole system at your place for x number of hours and this includes all of the possible variables including cables, system synergy, source, room etc

 

So we'll done! I can't wait to go through my own PMC adventure once I finally get my PMC Twenty5.22 in a few weeks. Happy listening!

 

 

[needlerunner]

That is really great to hear. It seems like you finally found the sweet spot. 
I was a bit worried a while back because you sounded very disappointed so it is great to know that the running is absolutely necessary. It is a substantial investment and that shows how hard can be to get this done right even after so much research, listening to all sorts of opinions, demoing etc. 
It is awesome to have so much knowledge here from all those experienced PMC owners, yet it also proves that you will only really really know once you try the whole system at your place for x number of hours and this includes all of the possible variables including cables, system synergy, source, room etc
 
So we'll done! I can't wait to go through my own PMC adventure once I finally get my PMC Twenty5.22 in a few weeks. Happy listening! [emoji4]
 
 

Thanks andpi.
The PMC forum consists of a great bunch of people. The assistance l have received has been invaluable. So thanks everyone.

I'm pretty sorted for cables. The interconnects l purchased 30 years ago where custom made and cost me $400 for 2 half metre lengths. Just had enough bend in them to connect. Real expensive back then. Nearly caused a divorce. Probably have to pay a fortune to get something better. Might dabble later, if l can snaffle a bargain in classifieds.

Down the track l might pick people's brains on what speaker cables they are using. Though that is a hard one. Can be expenses and also a gamble, as pretty hard to road test.

What l have done is ordered some Blue Jean interconnects from America for the tt. And the other day l ordered some Magami jumpers for the speakers. I know people have said stick to the jumper wires same as the speaker cable. But l couldn't help myself. Only $100 and wanted to find out for myself. Will keep people posted on that little experiment.

Good luck with your new speakers. Bet you are gagging for them. Don't forget they need lots of run in. Lol.

Cheers.

[RCADees]

37 minutes ago, needlerunner said:

Thanks andpi.
The PMC forum consists of a great bunch of people. The assistance l have received has been invaluable. So thanks everyone.

I'm pretty sorted for cables. The interconnects l purchased 30 years ago where custom made and cost me $400 for 2 half metre lengths. Just had enough bend in them to connect. Real expensive back then. Nearly caused a divorce. Probably have to pay a fortune to get something better. Might dabble later, if l can snaffle a bargain in classifieds.

Down the track l might pick people's brains on what speaker cables they are using. Though that is a hard one. Can be expenses and also a gamble, as pretty hard to road test.

What l have done is ordered some Blue Jean interconnects from America for the tt. And the other day l ordered some Magami jumpers for the speakers. I know people have said stick to the jumper wires same as the speaker cable. But l couldn't help myself. Only $100 and wanted to find out for myself. Will keep people posted on that little experiment.

Good luck with your new speakers. Bet you are gagging for them. Don't forget they need lots of run in. Lol.

Cheers.
 

Hey needlerunner, Excellent. The journey continues. Good luck with the cables. 

 

That seems like a lot of money for cables 30 years ago and I can understand the potential divorce part.

Precisely the reason why I don't have my PMCs yet! So I had to hold on, but certainly the fact that I am spending such a big amount on speakers almost caused an earthquake at home. 

 

I mean, people out there seem to think that it is absolutely normal to spend 30k on a car. Yet they look at us like mad people spending 5k on speakers. What a disgrace. 

To me a good hi-fi set up is more like a space ship which can transport you to a different time and space. That is priceless. 

 

So I will continue to wait for those PMC Twenty5.22 but soon they will be mine! 

[needlerunner]

7 hours ago, Andpi said:

Hey needlerunner, Excellent. The journey continues. Good luck with the cables. 

 

That seems like a lot of money for cables 30 years ago and I can understand the potential divorce part.

Precisely the reason why I don't have my PMCs yet! So I had to hold on, but certainly the fact that I am spending such a big amount on speakers almost caused an earthquake at home. 

 

I mean, people out there seem to think that it is absolutely normal to spend 30k on a car. Yet they look at us like mad people spending 5k on speakers. What a disgrace. 

To me a good hi-fi set up is more like a space ship which can transport you to a different time and space. That is priceless. 

 

So I will continue to wait for those PMC Twenty5.22 but soon they will be mine! 

Mate. Like the way you think.

I've lost 100k on car change overs the last 12 years. Did it arse about. My last set up was 30 years old.

My marriage much less.

Went through new cars every 2/3 years. Should have pumped it into HiFi. Sigh. 

Yes those interconnects were $1000 per metre. Hence getting the shortest possible. Think they were made from unicorn horn powder, fairy dust and Angel tears.

 

5pm here. Just sitting back having a red wine and listening to Steven Wilson.

 

[extract]

On 14/08/2019 at 11:53 AM, Andpi said:

I mean, people out there seem to think that it is absolutely normal to spend 30k on a car. Yet they look at us like mad people spending 5k on speakers. What a disgrace. 

To me a good hi-fi set up is more like a space ship which can transport you to a different time and space. That is priceless. 

In a way they are right to think like that since there's a much higher markup on speakers then a car of the equivalent value.  Speakers are just generally wooden boxes with some drivers/crossovers attached to them, whilst a car is made up of an engine, seats, wheels, tyres, chassis e.t.c 

 

[needlerunner]

2 hours ago, extract said:

In a way they are right to think like that since there's a much higher markup on speakers then a car of the equivalent value.  Speakers are just generally wooden boxes with some drivers/crossovers attached to them, whilst a car is made up of an engine, seats, wheels, tyres, chassis e.t.c 

 

Too true.

But we would be pretty stuffed without speakers (good quality). And anyway it's only money. We would only waste it on something else.

 

[audio_file]

14 hours ago, extract said:

In a way they are right to think like that since there's a much higher markup on speakers then a car of the equivalent value.  Speakers are just generally wooden boxes with some drivers/crossovers attached to them, whilst a car is made up of an engine, seats, wheels, tyres, chassis e.t.c 

That's not what all people pay for. Many people pay for the experience, or benefit it gives them. If you don't need to travel much a car will have a less perceived value for example. If a speaker helps to provide a wonderful experience, it has a higher value.

 

Of course some people also find more value in someone hand building a speaker than robots building a car.

[RCADees]

50 minutes ago, audio_file said:

That's not what all people pay for. Many people pay for the experience, or benefit it gives them. If you don't need to travel much a car will have a less perceived value for example. If a speaker helps to provide a wonderful experience, it has a higher value.

 

Of course some people also find more value in someone hand building a speaker than robots building a car.

Bingo!

It is the value placed on something. In my case our household didn't need a car so we just sold it five years ago and we couldn't be happier so I can now spend more on good speakers. 

But I can certainly understand someone who places more value on their car because perhaps it allows them to see their parents on the weekend. 

I place a lot of value on something made by hand with skill by someone who is happy doing what they do, working with good working conditions to assemble or make something special which I can take home and which will transport me to that magical place! Even though it is just a box with magnets inside.

To me is a box full of magic. 

 

This link in opinions from Carlton Audiovisual here in Melbourne is a good read, cheers. 

https://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/news/why-loudspeakers/

[needlerunner]

Bingo!
It is the value placed on something. In my case our household didn't need a car so we just sold it five years ago and we couldn't be happier so I can now spend more on good speakers. 
But I can certainly understand someone who places more value on their car because perhaps it allows them to see their parents on the weekend. 
I place a lot of value on something made by hand with skill by someone who is happy doing what they do, working with good working conditions to assemble or make something special which I can take home and which will transport me to that magical place! Even though it is just a box with magnets inside.
To me is a box full of magic. 
 
This link in opinions from Carlton Audiovisual here in Melbourne is a good read, cheers. 
https://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/news/why-loudspeakers/

Again. Spot on Aidio_file.

Hobbies are what makes us happy.

If l had a spare 100 grand, would l buy a new car. Nah. It would all go on HIFI, CDs and records. A shed load of audiophile records ...and quite possibly, a crate of Penfold Grange.

[needlerunner]

P.S. good article link by the way.
The boys at Carlton Audio are great people, especially Nick who gave me my great deal on my PMCs.

[RCADees]

43 minutes ago, needlerunner said:

P.S. good article link by the way.
The boys at Carlton Audio are great people, especially Nick who gave me my great deal on my PMCs.

Very much agree needlerunner, they have been pretty good to me in all my dealings with them. 

 

And yes, if it wasn't for their help with my PMC deal I couldn't even consider that awesome pair of speakers I am looking forward to. Special thanks to Magnus, Nick and Rab. 

[needlerunner]

Hi folks.

Decided to give bi-wiring ago.
Bought some bi-wire speaker cables from a lovely fella from SNA over the weekend.
They are still in transit. But am looking forward to see what they might bring to the party.

So as you know, l have a pair of twenty.23s.

What are other people's experience with bi-wiring. Will it be a subtly improvement, or more.

I found by just adding speaker jumpers improved the sound a good deal. So I'm expecting more from bi-wiring. They are used, but will they still need burning in?
Seeing that they are going into another system.

Interested to hear other people thoughts. But prefer it from people that have tried this experiment and their experience.

Cheers.

[audio_file]

39 minutes ago, needlerunner said:

Hi folks.

Decided to give bi-wiring ago.
Bought some bi-wire speaker cables from a lovely fella from SNA over the weekend.
They are still in transit. But am looking forward to see what they might bring to the party.

So as you know, l have a pair of twenty.23s.

What are other people's experience with bi-wiring. Will it be a subtly improvement, or more.

I found by just adding speaker jumpers improved the sound a good deal. So I'm expecting more from bi-wiring. They are used, but will they still need burning in?
Seeing that they are going into another system.

Interested to hear other people thoughts. But prefer it from people that have tried this experiment and their experience.

Cheers.

I used to get a more open treble and larger sound stage than with equivalent single wire cables, but at the same time I gained a better overall improvement using better single wires for the same price as the double wires needed for bi-wiring.

[needlerunner]

6 hours ago, audio_file said:

I used to get a more open treble and larger sound stage than with equivalent single wire cables, but at the same time I gained a better overall improvement using better single wires for the same price as the double wires needed for bi-wiring.

That was going to be my plan too, with Magami jumper cables that l have ordered. But these cables came up for a great price, so thought l would give them ago.

 

The speakers arrived this afternoon, so hooked them up straightaway.

Well wow. What a difference. The first thing l noticed was the improvement to bass. More pronounced. As is treble and voice clarity. It has a bigger sound stage too.

 

This may sound silly, considering these are PMC speakers. But it seem to have ironed out the rough edges.

Noticed a big difference on rock music. Which was my only whinge.

Now it sounds more rounded out and fuller.

 

These speakers have only done 10 hours. So room for further improvement.

 

Couldn't be happier.

 

I guess the PMC designers had something in mind when they put 4 posts on their speakers.

 

 

[budy]

On 24/10/2018 at 9:49 PM, synthz said:

It's been sitting in this Northline courier depot. There were a lot of issues with Grays Online and their chosen courier company, they don't talk to each other.

I had the same problem with Gray's/Northline Couriers delivering my PMC Twenty. 24's. Over a month! I thought I've been had. Finally arrived and it was worth the wait. Excellent speakers paired with a Hegel H300. I don't think I can achieve better. Back listening to music rather than trying to pick what is missing.

[oneflewnorth]

On 21/08/2019 at 2:34 PM, needlerunner said:

Hi folks.

Decided to give bi-wiring ago.
Bought some bi-wire speaker cables from a lovely fella from SNA over the weekend.
They are still in transit. But am looking forward to see what they might bring to the party.

So as you know, l have a pair of twenty.23s.

What are other people's experience with bi-wiring. Will it be a subtly improvement, or more.

I found by just adding speaker jumpers improved the sound a good deal. So I'm expecting more from bi-wiring. They are used, but will they still need burning in?
Seeing that they are going into another system.

Interested to hear other people thoughts. But prefer it from people that have tried this experiment and their experience.

Cheers.

I recently picked up a pair of Osborn datalink cables on SNA for my twenty.22's which are my first set of bi-wire cables. Really happy with the results. Granted, they are a "better" set of cables than what I was using but I have noticed a great improvement, almost like I've freed them. Whether that is the better quality cable or bi-wiring I don't know, previously I was just using the factory jumper bar.

[needlerunner]

1 hour ago, budy said:

I had the same problem with Gray's/Northline Couriers delivering my PMC Twenty. 24's. Over a month! I thought I've been had. Finally arrived and it was worth the wait. Excellent speakers paired with a Hegel H300. I don't think I can achieve better. Back listening to music rather than trying to pick what is missing.

Congratulations budy. Another happy little PMC camper.

 

A month to deliver. That's a bit rich.

Mine took 7 days through Toll Couriers.

 

Were they new or second hand. Not familiar with Gray's.

 

Anyway, keep us posted. This site goes through long periods of stagnation.

[needlerunner]

On 16/08/2019 at 11:58 AM, Andpi said:

Very much agree needlerunner, they have been pretty good to me in all my dealings with them. 

 

And yes, if it wasn't for their help with my PMC deal I couldn't even consider that awesome pair of speakers I am looking forward to. Special thanks to Magnus, Nick and Rab. 

Hi andpi.

Got your speakers yet. I'm thinking not, or you would be spruking long and hard. When are they arriving.

Just to rub it in, mine are sounding better everyday.

[needlerunner]

25 minutes ago, oneflewnorth said:

I recently picked up a pair of Osborn datalink cables on SNA for my twenty.22's which are my first set of bi-wire cables. Really happy with the results. Granted, they are a "better" set of cables than what I was using but I have noticed a great improvement, almost like I've freed them. Whether that is the better quality cable or bi-wiring I don't know, previously I was just using the factory jumper bar.

I know what you mean. I am hearing a big improvement. 

My expression was "smooth out the small rough edges. Yours is more apt, "freed them up". That's it in a nut shell.

 

I know some people advocate that a good quality single is better than a average quality bi-cable of similar cost. And l agree. But l wonder what a good quality bi-wire setup of a same cooperative quality as the single would bring.

 

Can't help thinking that the twenty's were set up for bi-wiring for a reason.

 

Anyway, I'm happy with my little experiment.

 

Cheers

 

 

[audio_file]

1 hour ago, needlerunner said:

Can't help thinking that the twenty's were set up for bi-wiring for a reason.

Maybe, then again PMC decided to remove Bi-Wiring capability from the Twenty5 series.

[Ittaku]

1 hour ago, needlerunner said:

I know some people advocate that a good quality single is better than a average quality bi-cable of similar cost. And l agree. But l wonder what a good quality bi-wire setup of a same cooperative quality as the single would bring.

If you do this experiment for yourself, I suggest you make sure the single cable is double calibre compared to each separate bi-wire component for it to be a fair comparison since one basically has double the cross-sectional area otherwise. I've done this experiment myself, and the two cables were indistinguishable.

 

The reason there are options for bi-wiring speakers is in the unlikely event you have the budget for separate amplifiers for each component. The reasoning got confused along with so many other cable discussions where things end up in science-free opinion-land where people insist it sounds better bi-wired to the same amp. Scientifically speaking, there's actually a reason that would sound worse than just using a double calibre cable that goes to both terminals, but it's very fine print and unlikely to be audible.

[needlerunner]

1 hour ago, audio_file said:

Maybe, then again PMC decided to remove Bi-Wiring capability from the Twenty5 series.

True. I guess we will never know.

I for one won't be spending any more money to find out testing the theory. Don't think l can better the sound much more with cables anyway.

 

Heading in another direction and see if l can improve the sound of my tt with a Mofi weight. That will probably start an whole new debate.

 

Cheers.

 

[needlerunner]

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

If you do this experiment for yourself, I suggest you make sure the single cable is double calibre compared to each separate bi-wire component for it to be a fair comparison since one basically has double the cross-sectional area otherwise. I've done this experiment myself, and the two cables were indistinguishable.

 

The reason there are options for bi-wiring speakers is in the unlikely event you have the budget for separate amplifiers for each component. The reasoning got confused along with so many other cable discussions where things end up in science-free opinion-land where people insist it sounds better bi-wired to the same amp. Scientifically speaking, there's actually a reason that would sound worse than just using a double calibre cable that goes to both terminals, but it's very fine print and unlikely to be audible.

I could see how that would work.

Not sure if the additional cost of that would gain you much more in sound quality. But then perhaps it does.

 

Same old, hey.

Like with anything in this hobby, it would have both it's advocates and detractors. 

 

Me, I'm going to stop (try to) tweaking and concentrate on just the music. FLW.

 

[needlerunner]

Hi I’m running PMC 25:23 floorstanders but they are quite small. Very easy to place and great sound.

Ditto.

The PMC owners thread is an invaluable source of knowledge and information.

I made my decision to buy a pair of PMCs based on information l gleamed from that site.

Couldn't be happier. Brilliant speakers.

[blakey72]

On 27/08/2019 at 10:03 PM, needlerunner said:

Ditto.

The PMC owners thread is an invaluable source of knowledge and information.
 

Just messaged a mod about this