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DC1138

Integrated Amplifier for Ascension Speakers

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Sounds strange. I have a Quasimodo and it is nothing like what you have experienced.

Out of curiosity, have you checked the relative polarity of the speakers? Perhaps try reversing one set of speaker leads at one end and see if that makes things better or worse.

Regards,

SS

you mean running on speaker with red going to black and black to red ?

 

I hooked up my old ken-wood 16 band graphic equalizer and  I left the bass at mid point and dropped everything else way down to the bottom. 

 

 

just need to listen to a few cd and see if how goes.  already sounds better with the decent bass improvement tho

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Is it brand new or second hand, if second hand have a chat with @@tagstrip about it

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you mean running on speaker with red going to black and black to red ?

 

I hooked up my old ken-wood 16 band graphic equalizer and  I left the bass at mid point and dropped everything else way down to the bottom. 

 

 

just need to listen to a few cd and see if how goes.  already sounds better with the decent bass improvement tho

 

Using you old ( or any ) equaliser is not a realistic cure to your problem.

 

I have owned a Quasimodo amplifier and I tend to agree with what you have experienced, albeit to a far lesser degree. It is a very good amplifier but is tonally lean and is also needs careful system matching. If you have speakers and other components which lean to the bright side of neutral the Quasi will tend to highlight this.

 

Unfortunately there isn't a lot you can do about it but check all your speaker connections and try some decent quality copper speaker and IC cable. This doesn't mean megabuck cable at all, just something like the Aurealis or Audio Principe cables. The quasi will respond well to these and even if you end up using another amplifier it won't be money wasted.

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What source are you using?

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you mean running on speaker with red going to black and black to red ?

Yes. If the relative polarity or relative phase between the speakers is reversed for some reason, the bass will disappear, the sound stage will collapse and just sound very wrong. It's an easy thing to check and easy to eliminate as a potential cause.

Regards,

SS

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What source are you using?

 

PC to tubemagic d2 Dac

 

Is it brand new or second hand, if second hand have a chat with @@tagstrip about it

 

Its brand new.

Richard has already contacted me and offered a full refund. 

 

I moved the Quasimodo into a bedroom (about 1/3 or less the size of the lounge room - with mattresses on each side of the walls and a thick rug on the floor and cloths hanging behind listening position) connected it up to the Celestion Ditton 66s (PC as the source into a Beresford Caiman Dac)

 

I have everything flat and the sound is a huge improvement. a tad bright here and there(probably depending on how it was mastered) bass is there (could do with a tad bump(personal preference)- most songs sound great tho.

Over all a much more musical and magical sound. very clear and can hear every detail in the song but still enjoy the music. Its has actually bought the music alive and has a nice energy to the sound now. Its unlike any thing I have heard before.

 

Bass is a lot better in this room, I once tried the Ascensions in that room with the eight deluxe(everything on flat and no loudness button on) and the bass was over whelming-maybe to much)

after moving the Ascensions into the larger lounge room and connecting it to the 717 its sounded good but the loudness button was needed to give the bass some feeling to the music. (I like to feel the bass, tight bass is nice but I like to feel it not just  hear it.)

 

At this point I am thinking the Quasimodo being a bit brighter then the vintage amps and more dynamic really didnt like the room(the lounge room is tiled,lots of glass and about 5 by 7 meters in size. the room probably sucks the bass up or over enhances the highs as when I was turning the Quasimodo volume up it just made the highs overwhelming and bright.

I even tried some techno music and it wasn't working at all. just did not sound how techno should sound.

 

When I was listening to music in the lounge room I was skipping the songs, in the bedroom I am listening to each song and its hard to stop.

Bit disappointing that the lounge room didn't work.

 

Tomorrow I might drag the ascensions into the smaller room and see how that goes.

 

 

 

Yes. If the relative polarity or relative phase between the speakers is reversed for some reason, the bass will disappear, the sound stage will collapse and just sound very wrong. It's an easy thing to check and easy to eliminate as a potential cause.

Regards,

SS

I don't think that is the case as the cables are all correctly wired.

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Could the amp just need some time to brake in

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Could the amp just need some time to brake in

I dont know. Thought that was a myth. How long is brake in time? I could try running it for a while in the bedroom then move it to the lounge room after a few weeks and listen to see if sounds better.  

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Guest Muon

Not a myth, but I couldn't give a time frame on an amp I don't know.

 

So speakers are new and so is the amp?

 

Edit: I would give both as much run time as practical.

Edited by ortofun

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Not a myth, but I couldn't give a time frame on an amp I don't know.

 

So speakers are new and so is the amp?

 

Edit: I would give both as much run time as practical.

Speakers are a few weeks old, there metal tweeters but dont sound hard or too bright unless pushing the volume alot. the dac and sansui amp should both be warm in sound and helped soften the sound a little. The tubemagic dac is new also but have at-least 50 hours on it.

Could be a case of the speaker, new amp and that room that just arnt working. But I'll give the amp some time before shifting it make to the larger room.

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Guest Muon

Agreed, can be that combo'  Hope it gets better for you.

 

I only just saw this thread now, but the first amp that came to mind by rep' was one of Hugh Deans Naska 80's

 

Edit: Also if you are using stranded speaker cable, try some solid core copper ones, maybe borrow a set from someone...might help a little.

Edited by ortofun

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Sounds like your main room is going to be the tricky one to tame the highs.

I doubt the amp will break in that much to transform that room. :(

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Guest Muon

Try placing a blanket over that big sheet of glass also (TV)

 

A tube pre driving a neutral to warmish power amp, like the Naska?

 

Just tossing around ideas :(

Edited by ortofun

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When you initially tried the Summoners, were they placed in the same spot that you had the Celestions in? The room has a massive influence on the sound, so if they were not in the same spot, you will definitely hear differences. If moving the same setup into a different room drastically changes the sound, then the room/positioning is the cause.

Cheers,

SS

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Guest Muon

Time for acoustic treatments I guess.

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Sounds like your main room is going to be the tricky one to tame the highs.

I doubt the amp will break in that much to transform that room. :(

 

Yeah the room might not be worth the effort as the house is a rental and I dont see room treatmeant working to well in the room. probably more better of an idea to keep the vintage amp in the lounge room. 

 

When you initially tried the Summoners, were they placed in the same spot that you had the Celestions in? The room has a massive influence on the sound, so if they were not in the same spot, you will definitely hear differences. If moving the same setup into a different room drastically changes the sound, then the room/positioning is the cause.

Cheers,

SS

 

I have just finished putting the Summoners in the smaller room in the same place as the Celestions and running them with the Quasimodo amp. Together they are are lot brighter and lively then I am use to. Very crisp and detailed but some times (depending on the song) harsher (a bit ear piecing highs - which is my only complaint). It brings the music to life and might take a little while to get use to the differences between the Quasimodo and the more vintage sounds. The Celestions with the Quasimodo did not sound as bright but still had the detail.

Very impressive sound and like having a bit of verity. 

 

Might swap the dacs around a bit and see what sound I prefer. 

 

Bass is great now and seems more balanced with everything else.

 

I also tried playing music with everything flat on the Sansui with the Summoners in the larger room and it sounded dead also. This combo is no where near as bright as the Quasimodo and Summoner combo tho.

Edited by DC1138

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I have also compared the studio 60s to the summoner with the Quasimodo (with music).

The studio 60s sound good, mid range and base are good but the Summoners is like lifting a veil, the music comes alive and is a lot more clear,defined, full bodied and a tad more punchier.

Overall the Summoners are the better speaker.

Edited by DC1138

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Hi Dwayne.

It's good to see that you are starting to experiment with different combinations and room positioning etc.

Many years before coming up with the Quasimodo amplifier design, I used to build speakers (well over 100 different designs!). The thing that started me off on the whole do it yourself audio kick was the annoying fact that the commercial speakers that I bought from the Hi Fi shop (remember them anyone?!) never sounded as good at home on the same source device and amplifier. I figured out that it was the room / speaker interface that was the problem! So I started building my own speakers, and the rest, as they say, is history!

Now some 40 years later, I have done with building speakers and would rather leave that side of it up to Edward's expertise.

Ed is an extremely clever and gifted audiophile with a great ear for music, and works into the wee small hours almost every day building those rather tasty speakers of his.

Both the Summoners (and the Quasimodo) will sound progressively better with use.

I never get to hear a well run in Quasimodo that is now using the very latest circuit configuration 'cos I never have them any more than a few days and they are packed up and sent off :(

Just keep on experimenting with speaker positioning and also listener positioning- yes really!  Sitting in a "bass null" point in a bright room will make almost any system sound "thin" especially with an amp without tone controls such as a Naim, Exposure, Naksa or a Quasimodo etc.

The room is a vital part of the whole system, and must be taken into the whole scheme of things appropriately or audio bliss will never be obtained no matter how much money is spent.

Don't give up- it will be worth it! :party 

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Dwayne,

 

Try investing in a good quality rug or two to reduce the harshness created by the tiled floor. The gear you have will smooth out a little over a few months and become more consistent, but the essential character won't change.

 

There are a few threads on SNA with members expressing similar problems as yours. Don't be disheartened. You have some very good equipment and just need to be patient with room 'treatment' and experimenting with positioning.

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Thanks for the encouraging posts. I'll see how room placement and some room treatment goes. Ill give it a few months to burn in.

 

I have rugs in both rooms, not really very think tho. in the larger room the room has a few glass tables.  I could always give Edward a call and see if he can help with adjusting the tweeter crossover to reduce the brightness.I find metal dome tweeter are always  too bright/harsh and irritating to listen to long term.. I could also add a active subwoofer to balanced the sound and takes some of my attention away from the over-bright treble. currently the sound has beautiful tone at lower volume, but as soon as i turn up the volume the treble is too harsh. 

ATM the  the treble sometimes sounds disconnected from the rest of the music and ATM Cables are copper not silver 

 

Ive found a review of Ascension speakers that are also saying a similar thing to what I have experience. 

http://ozpaul-ozblog.blogspot.com.au/2008/05/my-new-ascension-speakers.html

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The metal tweeters your refering to look like the foundtek cd3.0 ribbon tweeters which i also have and have no problems what so ever with them on a rega mira 3

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Hi Dwayne.

Edward will probably be able to help tame down the treble in the speakers, but do your Ascensions use ribbons as the photos in the link show soft dome tweeters.

I could "mellow out" the Quasimodo amp as well if you wished, but you are a bit far away to do that easily, but also, if the tweeters are ribbons, they can take quite a while to sweeten up.

It could be, that with several years of listening to old classic amps which can sound somewhat "soft", that you have developed a preference for this kind of sonic flavour.

I have sold a total of three Quasimodo amps to a professional sound engineer down Melbourne way, and he's totally in love with 'em, but some folks like a more "romantic" sound that is akin the that which you seem to prefer. Most recording engineers love to hear details of every thing going on in the mix revealed to the max!

I admit that I am a bit of a "detail freak" and love to hear absolutely every bit of percussive detail and space around instruments and hear breathing and vocal inflections in well recorded music- I want it all, in other words.

But we all have different preferences and tastes, which is what makes this whole audio pursuit somewhat, um... interesting?! :rolleyes:

I remember listening to a classic old Quad 2 and thinking how soft and vague it seemed to sound, and was glad to sell it off. It was better after a recap , but still just too wooly sounding for me.

I preferred the Rogers Cadet amp to the Quad though, but both were tube amps of a similar vintage.

The old NAD 3020 amps and the7020 receivers have a soft- ish sweet delivery, but I do rather like them when recapped and they still are very "easy on the ear" which you would rather like, I think.

I do have a recapped NAD7020 here if you are interested- its sound quality would be right up your street, so to speak.

If you shifted to a different house with radically altered room acoustics, things may change- for the better, hopefully. Room acoustics can sometimes be a real pain in the proverbial- believe me, I know!

If you really do not like the Quasimodo amp, and you would be the first one ever, then inform me and I will give you a refund once I receive it back. I will have to raid the Other Half's "piggy bank" to do so, but she's o.k. with that- ain't she lovely! :love

I have hatched a "cunning plan" (apologies to Black Adder!) for a Quasimos design for lovers of smooth mellow sound in the future- stay posted on good 'ol Stereonet :cool:

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Hi Dwayne.

Edward will probably be able to help tame down the treble in the speakers, but do your Ascensions use ribbons as the photos in the link show soft dome tweeters.

I could "mellow out" the Quasimodo amp as well if you wished, but you are a bit far away to do that easily, but also, if the tweeters are ribbons, they can take quite a while to sweeten up.

It could be, that with several years of listening to old classic amps which can sound somewhat "soft", that you have developed a preference for this kind of sonic flavour.

I have sold a total of three Quasimodo amps to a professional sound engineer down Melbourne way, and he's totally in love with 'em, but some folks like a more "romantic" sound that is akin the that which you seem to prefer. Most recording engineers love to hear details of every thing going on in the mix revealed to the max!

I admit that I am a bit of a "detail freak" and love to hear absolutely every bit of percussive detail and space around instruments and hear breathing and vocal inflections in well recorded music- I want it all, in other words.

But we all have different preferences and tastes, which is what makes this whole audio pursuit somewhat, um... interesting?! :rolleyes:

I remember listening to a classic old Quad 2 and thinking how soft and vague it seemed to sound, and was glad to sell it off. It was better after a recap , but still just too wooly sounding for me.

I preferred the Rogers Cadet amp to the Quad though, but both were tube amps of a similar vintage.

The old NAD 3020 amps and the7020 receivers have a soft- ish sweet delivery, but I do rather like them when recapped and they still are very "easy on the ear" which you would rather like, I think.

I do have a recapped NAD7020 here if you are interested- its sound quality would be right up your street, so to speak.

If you shifted to a different house with radically altered room acoustics, things may change- for the better, hopefully. Room acoustics can sometimes be a real pain in the proverbial- believe me, I know!

If you really do not like the Quasimodo amp, and you would be the first one ever, then inform me and I will give you a refund once I receive it back. I will have to raid the Other Half's "piggy bank" to do so, but she's o.k. with that- ain't she lovely! :love

I have hatched a "cunning plan" (apologies to Black Adder!) for a Quasimos design for lovers of smooth mellow sound in the future- stay posted on good 'ol Stereonet :cool:

Hi Richard. I am pretty sure they are ribbon. I expressed to Edward that I was worried about having ribbon tweeters before I bought them. He said he could do soft dome if I wished. I said Ill give the Ribbon a go as he said he could help me make adjustments if they were to bright.

Yeah we all have different tastes and that does make it interesting aswell adding perspective. I am finding having something more different to what I previously had to be both interesting and curious how my music sounds now. I think having a more layed back system and another system that is a bit more brighter and detailed a good choice. The combo of the Quasimodo and the Summoners can sound magical and sounds best with energetic music.(from what I have heard so far)

I think your correct about the sonic sounds I have become adjusted to.

I think If I could knock down the highs a bit I would be very happy, I am loving the clearness and detail just some notes are too much. Its not bad at lower levels.

Ill give it a month and see if I can adjust to the new sound and if the equipment works its self out abit. I not a music / sound engineer and listen to music by what sounds good to myself. I dont need to go to a consert or live venue when i can try and get the sound I like at home. But your right if its metal tweeters probably wont be much change or take a while.

I have changed the dac to the tube magic dac and its help some what. the caiman dac was extremely detailed tho.

Thanks for the offer about the refund and the 7020. I'll let you know about the 7020, I love vintage nad and might get you to restore my sansui 717 first tho. I'll stick with the Quasimodo amp and try to get it to work. Its pretty good in the bedroom atm. Might get a Quasimodo for the lounge room designed for a smoother sound in the future. sounds like a good idea.

Edited by DC1138

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The summoners you have most definitely have the ribbon tweeter (http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/79043-dc1138s-gettoblast/) theres a link for your showcase thread. They can take quite a while to smoothen out edward modded my aaron towers with all new crossovers and ribbon tweeters and at first it was a little bright but they now have around 2 months of them makeing noise for around 2-4hrs a day as they are allways on and they have smoothend out allot and now i love the sound

Edited by howze

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I'll keep that in mind. Might just use the amp and speakers for tv watching for a few months and see if they sound better.if it doesnt ill swap the speakers back to the celestrons. Not really an enjoyable experience atm. Edward called me to help make some adjustments to help with bass increase and trebel reduction. Seemed to help a bit. But still like nails on a chalk board and being bombarded by sound. I gave my friend a listen to the setup and she said it sounds uncomfortable. So far the vintage amp with modern speakers and modern amp with vintage speakers has sound best. Seem to complent each other better. I dont think

the Quasimodo is bright probably more natural. Ribbon tweeters could be creating the brightness with the combo. Its great at low to moderate volumns tho. At noon on the volumn its sounds over bright and harsh. Between zero volumn and noon is nice.

Very bright, clear, dynamic, detailed and sharp. but feels souless and empty a bit.

Over emphasis the guitars, bells and sparkels. Probably sound good if you like metel maybe also.

The only way I can get it to sound good for how I like it is with the graphic equaliser.

Thats in the small room with mattresses on the walls. Still a little bright but its now sounding pretty good to me.

post-149872-0-47509100-1427887575_thumb.

Edited by DC1138

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