Denon AVR running 4ohm speakers

[Curto]

Hi all,

I just need a little advice on AVR selection.

I have a set of Whatmough magnum series speakers and want to upgrade my AVR.

I am leaning towards a used Denon AVR, but from what I can see they all (in my price range), pretty much list the ohm rating at 6~12 ohm.

My Whatmough's are rated at:

Front floor standing - 4ohm

Centre - 4ohm

Rears - 8ohm

Would the 4 & 8 ohm speakers be an issue on a 6~12 ohm rated amp?

Thanks in advance 😊

[betty boop]

its not so much the 4 ohm speakers you can get little pea pod 4 ohm speakers and they arent going to hurt anything !  

 

its the specific speakers, efficiency and the dynamic load. when running a home theatre system the big bonus is you can run a subwoofer. and I'd run  subwoofer I see no mention of it in your arrangement. and whamough make some excellent subwoofers. I am pretty sure they are a denon retailer as well, so worth popping in their store and they can make specific recommendation to suit your setup and suggest amp wise.

 

with denon avrs...you really get what you pay for. they have budget units which will struggle with anything elaborate in the speaker side but more suited to simple sub sat arrangements and then as you go up in range they re more capable to run some decent speaker sets off

 

if looking at something used ....consider something like the denon 4308...was a $5k avr superb quality ...will pick up around the $1k mark which is blindingly good value. it just won't pass 3D or 4K or anything but completely capable any otherwise. otherwise for 3D looking at newer units like the denon 4311 but it wasn't quite in the same league as the 4308...more like a replacement of the 3808 which was still a pretty decent unit.

[Curto]

Thanks al,

I am also in the market for a sub but I am also on a tight budget 😞

I am currently putting a REL T3 through its paces, and IMO it is quite a nice little sub for its size (and price).

I can't seem to find the specs for my actual M30 speakers but I have a feeling they run at an efficiency of about 87-88.

The 4311 looks like a great amp, but a quick look on Gumtree there is one listed for $2199 which unfortunately it's out of my budget at the moment 😞

I do like the idea of running hdmi cables and having the convenience of simple operation (I want to make it as easy as possible for the wife to use 😉).

My plan was to add a nice little AVR that would be an improvement over my current Sony unit and be able to add a decent power amp down the track.

I have seen a few Denon models that would be a great improvement on what I have with hdmi & pre-outs for future upgrades, but I am just not sure how a 6~12 ohm AVR will perform with my current speakers?

[betty boop]

4311 at 2199 is way too much. you could almost get them brand new for that. being a superseded model and now second hand would be closer to $1500 I would think as a fair price.

 

especially when consider you can pickup something brand new current model like the x4100 for fraction less than the 4311 on gum tree ! .

 

http://www.audiotrends.com.au/Denon_AVR_X4100W_.html?action=viewProduct&itemId=3005

 

something like the 4308 and 3808 as I mentioned can be real bargains too.  hdmi capable…as long as don't need 3D capability.

 

3808

 

here on ebay for $750

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DENON-s-AVR-3808-HD-HOME-THEATRE-RECEIVER-/181468871864?pt=AU_Electronics_Home_Audio_Tuners_Receivers&hash=item2a40633cb8

 

another nice unit the cambridge 651r here at clearance price, 

 

http://fanaticschoice.com.au/index.php/clearance-corner/cambridge-audio-651r.html

[walker1000]

I was using a Denon 2802 with a pair of Gale speakers which are 4 ohm and difficult to drive. I bought it 14 years ago and due to the 6-16 ohm rating had an in home demo as I wasnt convinced it would cope.

I played a few albums at very high levels to check the Denon was up to the task and it passed with flying colours.

Ive recently changed amps and speakers but it gave me 11 trouble free years.

[Curto]

Thanks for your help everyone, they say there is no such thing as a silly question, but I will give it a go 

 

I am looking at something simple (and cheap) to start with, like the Denon AVR-789 (spec sheet attached) which I can get for under $400 which would be a great improvement on my current Sony avr I am sure, with plans of later adding a decent 2 channel amp as I am about 90/10 music/movies.

 

As the AVR-789 doesn't seem to have pre-outs, could I use the Optical or Coax outputs to connect another amp, and if so which one would be better?

 

Also the AVR-789 is able to be bi-amped with an assignable amp, as my Whatmough fronts are bi-amp capable would that mean that they are getting twice the power of the standard wiring configuration?

And would that have any impact on volume levels in surround mode where I would have to turn the fronts down to balance with the rest of the speakers or am I just going to get better sound and/or less strain on the amp? 

 

AVR789_EA_leaf_rev2.pdf

[hochopeper]

I am not sure the optical/coax outputs work for all inputs (especially analogue or HDMI inputs) from memory of when I looked into their operation for my 3808. You'd want to read the manual closely to work it out.

[betty boop]

Thanks for your help everyone, they say there is no such thing as a silly question, but I will give it a go 

 

I am looking at something simple (and cheap) to start with, like the Denon AVR-789 (spec sheet attached) which I can get for under $400 which would be a great improvement on my current Sony avr I am sure, with plans of later adding a decent 2 channel amp as I am about 90/10 music/movies.

 

As the AVR-789 doesn't seem to have pre-outs, could I use the Optical or Coax outputs to connect another amp, and if so which one would be better?

 

Also the AVR-789 is able to be bi-amped with an assignable amp, as my Whatmough fronts are bi-amp capable would that mean that they are getting twice the power of the standard wiring configuration?

And would that have any impact on volume levels in surround mode where I would have to turn the fronts down to balance with the rest of the speakers or am I just going to get better sound and/or less strain on the amp? 

 

 

curto we have no idea what your sony avr is to comment if this is any better or not. the 789 was harvey norman price fighter. it is an older model too with hdmi v1.3 and basic audyssey hence the low price. personally I wouldn't see it as something you could use going forward with another amp, you can't use the coax or digital output for this, you need analog pre outs. as levels from digital outputs will be full rather than controlled by the volume control which makes kinda useless.

 

is your budget  $400 ? worth confirming then people could make appropriate suggestions

[Curto]

Thanks al,

 

I am not on a strict $400 budget, its just that I see quite a few used AVR's for around that price that I am sure would be a vast improvement on my current setup without going over the top.

I would love to add a $2000 AVR and I can see the value in it, but I enjoy being married so $400 odd is safe...lol  

 

My current setup is:

 

AVR:

Sony STR-DE485 (manual with specs attached below)

 

Blu-ray player:

Sony BDP-S580

 

Speakers:

Whatmough Magnum series (about 10 years old):

Fronts - 2 x M30 (4 ohms - recommended amp power 40-150 watts) Bi-amp capable

Centre - 1 x M10 (4 ohms - recommended amp power 40-100 watts)

Rears - 2 x M05 (8 ohms - recommended amp power 40-100 watts)

Not sure of efficiency of these speakers, I think around 88-89

 

Sub:

REL T3

Currently giving it a demo, its used and they are asking around $400 for it which seems fair imo? 

 

 

I mainly use my system for music and occasional movies (90/10 mix), so I am looking for something that would be a nice sounding musical amp (possibly bi-amp capable) that can handle the odd Blu-ray movie, which is why I am leaning towards the 8" sealed sub.

 

Any advise or recommendations are appreciated

SONY STR-DE485 Manual.pdf

Edited December 30, 2014 by Curto

[betty boop]

seems a fair price for the T3, and especially if used with a sub have no doubt the $400 denon is likely to be a good step up from the sony. with the blu-ray player you have its just screaming out to be hooked up via hdmi as well  

 

if looking for a more musical amp and budget can stretch further, there is a $2.5k arcam 380 avr going for $1350 that just got listed in our classifieds - don't think get any better than that and a huge bargain for a current model amp.

[TP1]

The  4 Ohm speaker load will be a problem if it is consistently at 4 or less ohms.  Denon and a few other AVR's do not handle low impedance's well.  But they usually have protection circuits built in that would trip in case of an overload.   When I used 4 ohm speakers with an AVR, the AVR  tripped occasionally at higher volumes. A separate power amp ( using the AVR as a preamp/processor) gives the best results - better SQ  too.

[Greygit]

Hi Curto,

 

I have the same speaker setup as you have - I've had mine since about 2001 -  and like you I've been very happy with the speakers. A couple of years ago I purchased a Denon 3310 AVR for home theatre work - from memory I think its rated at about 150 watts per channel. The only time I had struck a problem with the AVR was on a stinking hot day when the circuit protection cut in. I had the volume up quite high while watching a movie so guess it was a combination of things that brought it undone.

 

So not wanting to run into the same issue I went down a path of making a few changes that started with purchasing a Rotel stereo amp (1582 Mk2) and hooked it up to the AVR thru its pre outs. In turn the two fronts were connected to the Rotel. My aim was to take the load off the Denon. But as can happen, I then started to think more about the music side of things as I've been listening to my collection more often. In the end I bit the bullet and bought a pair of the Whatmough P33's (which I had been lusting after for many, many months) and their new centre with matching drivers to the P33's. Still biting the bullet I also ended up purchasing a Rotel CD and Pre Amp. As the 1582 has balanced and unbalanced connects, I use unbalanced for the AVR connection and the balanced for the stereo gear.

 

Outcome now has been that the Denon is never pushed hard and my music listening is oh so sweet!

 

Its a setup configuration you might want to consider as an option down the track.

 

Cheers,

 

James

[Curto]

Hi James,

 

Thanks for the info, sounds like a nice setup and I am jealous

 

I actually ended up picking up a NAD T775 AVR and adding a Richter sub, what an improvement!!! especially considering I got both of them for under $900. The sub is ok and seems to compliment the Whatmough's fine (imo), but the T775 is what made the big difference. I have lusted for a NAD for many years and am very happy with it (for now anyway ).

 

I don't want to add too much more at the moment because we are planning on building a new house and I haven't sorted out yet how I am going to set up the sound system.

 

As for going to a quality CD player, is there a noticeable difference compared to using the Sony blu-ray player for music as I do at the moment?

There seems to be quite a few NAD cd payers on the second hand market which I am considering giving a try, but just a little unsure if I would be wasting my time (and money)....

 

Cheers

[betty boop]

Hi James,

 

Thanks for the info, sounds like a nice setup and I am jealous

 

I actually ended up picking up a NAD T775 AVR and adding a Richter sub, what an improvement!!! especially considering I got both of them for under $900. The sub is ok and seems to compliment the Whatmough's fine (imo), but the T775 is what made the big difference. I have lusted for a NAD for many years and am very happy with it (for now anyway ).

 

I don't want to add too much more at the moment because we are planning on building a new house and I haven't sorted out yet how I am going to set up the sound system.

 

As for going to a quality CD player, is there a noticeable difference compared to using the Sony blu-ray player for music as I do at the moment?

There seems to be quite a few NAD cd payers on the second hand market which I am considering giving a try, but just a little unsure if I would be wasting my time (and money)....

 

Cheers

 

great to hear on the nad 775. good honest power and at bargain pricing. and excellent got a sub as well. yeah I'd go a cd player and hook up over analog. at the bargain cheap as chips prices can pick up second hand well worth the effort over the throw way analog stage you get with your average blu-ray player

[Greygit]

great to hear on the nad 775. good honest power and at bargain pricing. and excellent got a sub as well. yeah I'd go a cd player and hook up over analog. at the bargain cheap as chips prices can pick up second hand well worth the effort over the throw way analog stage you get with your average blu-ray player

Hi Curto - as Al says if you pick up a good second hand CD player it will be a big improvement in what comes out of your speakers compared to the BD player! Im constantly amazed at the amount of detail in recordings that l'm hearing now. Leave the Sony for HT duties and you wont look back.

James

[Curto]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice.

 

I had a look today and my blue-ray and it does have analogue audio outs, so I connected them up and did notice the difference   

 

The frustrating part is that if I run the NAD amp in ANALOGUE BYPASS mode (straight through bypassing the DSP), but then the sub doesn't active.

To get the sub to work I need to go into STEREO or any other DSP enhanced mode. I did have a play with speaker configurations but even with it turned on in the settings it wouldn't active......

 

Surely its possible to run a NAD amp in full analogue mode and still have the sub getting fed some power too??  

 

Any ideas?     

[betty boop]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice.

 

I had a look today and my blue-ray and it does have analogue audio outs, so I connected them up and did notice the difference   

 

The frustrating part is that if I run the NAD amp in ANALOGUE BYPASS mode (straight through bypassing the DSP), but then the sub doesn't active.

To get the sub to work I need to go into STEREO or any other DSP enhanced mode. I did have a play with speaker configurations but even with it turned on in the settings it wouldn't active......

 

Surely its possible to run a NAD amp in full analogue mode and still have the sub getting fed some power too??  

 

Any ideas?     

 

you need the processor for the sub to do the xover, delays etc just run it in stereo if need the sub