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Deep End DIY - My first speaker project


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Posted (edited)

Got through this mornings turning without any surprises...glued another three rings on to turn tomorrow. 

 

1972051854_IMG_6835(Custom).JPG.3cca612d63fe3b19a1e8f5e122143e36.JPG

 

At this stage I plan another two groups of two rings to finish the horn but to this point everything seems very stable and strong when spun up so depending on how tomorrow morning goes I may just throw on the final four and have all the turning for the first horn complete on Monday...a day early...if all goes to plan.  Hopefully a support roller will not be necessary to stabilise the horn when it is full size...they are a pain to get right. 

 

Edited by acg
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This happened today...   Just a crappy phone photo but omg... finally....

That was a lot of wood to cut from the last four rings and my arms certainly know they have been used...but job is done...first 100Hz Upperbas horn front has been turned...      

Sexy AF...       First upperbass horn is in da house!

4 hours ago, acg said:

The horn profile is tractrix...all the horns in thi project are tractrix. 

 

So how exactly are you going to turn a tractrix curve here?  Are you using a copy turning attachment kind of arrangement from that profile jig you had made?  I am more than curious.

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Have a look at this photo Red...

 

536872884_IMG_6831(Custom).JPG.65c550d57bd978c0b472f222bd082bda.JPG

 

You can see the tool that I have made for this job (copper and black in colour).  See those two little bolts at the back separated maybe 40mm centre to centre...those are the guides...and they are sitting against the edge of the template that will guide the final trim cuts.  So I calculated the tractrix horn profile to suit my project, put it into AutoCAD, designed the finishing tool with two guide bolts so I get the cutting angle correct at all times, and with these tool dimensions I offset the tractrix profile to suit (not a straight offset because of the two guide bolts on the tool), decided on 6mm thick steel for the template in a shape that would also reinforce/stiffen the table top and sent it of to be laser cut.  The template is designed so that the far right edge (as seen in the photo) must be perfectly aligned to the back of the lathe faceplate (so I can use a straight edge to align it) and with a short, circa 200mm straight section at the left side so I can align the template to the centreline of the spindle (it is hollow and I can use the tailstock live end at the far end of the lathe bar to align by sight). 

 

That is my copy tool and it let's me use a conventional square edge tool to rough out quickly and then a couple of finishing runs with the tool to bring it to the correct shape.

 

 

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Very clever - but jez - it does look really dangerous still.

 

Might a mini router mounted horizontal on your little topslide be safer?

 

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Posted (edited)

This is getting serious now...last four rings glued on for turning tomorrow some time...over one metre diameter.

 

 

1277851139_IMG_6836(Custom).JPG.2eb5bfa42bf35948a397c702482b1901.JPG

 

 

As of tomorrow all the ring groups for the second horn will be glued together which will save time each day when the first horn is all painted and off the lathe.

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Red MacKay said:

Very clever - but jez - it does look really dangerous still.

 

Might a mini router mounted horizontal on your little topslide be safer?

 

Perhaps, but a router will buck and bite and will take its pound of flesh if it gets a chance...I did consider this at the start but in the end prefer the lathe  Beauty of the lathe is that sanding is a doddle and happens in minutes not hours/days with the router.  Plus for painting you just set the lathe to slow and hold the spray stationary...very even coverage and very efficient (for a painting novice like me). 

 

Edited by acg
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3 hours ago, acg said:

 

Perhaps, but a router will buck and bite and will take its pound of flesh if it gets a chance...I did consider this at the start but in the end prefer the lathe 

 

 

No - I meant set up the router as the cutter for use WITH the lathe.  ie; us it on a sled on your template.

 

Good Luck tomorrow.  Include pics please.

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That was a lot of wood to cut from the last four rings and my arms certainly know they have been used...but job is done...first 100Hz Upperbas horn front has been turned...

 

696138454_IMG_6838(Custom).JPG.cee40ae5a569db452be76c7936df18ea.JPG

 

 

The rear shot does not do the thing justice but you can certainly see circa 85kg of MDF left in that half horn...

 

 

374565226_IMG_6841(Custom).JPG.ebc9ef76042c3642e5505cf3e42f4488.JPG

 

 

Natural shapes tend to appeal to people and stay 'classic' for a long time.  The outside curve of this horn reminds me of the small of a womens back...beautiful, and on purpose...

 

1229082648_IMG_6840(Custom).JPG.66cceefe73f9aa01ef16942c9f635b44.JPG

 

 

When cutting the mouth of the horn the angles were just right to send plenty of swarthe through the door and onto the bricks with some landing about 3m from point of departure.

 

1886973158_IMG_6839(Custom).JPG.43bc6e2d4102c3869cefaac660e36d73.JPG

 

In the end the lathe/horn stayed very stable and no rollers were needed to help keep things steady.  Now starts the bit I really do not like...prepping the horn for painting...fixing my mistakes and rigorously sealing that end-grain.  This will take longer than turning the thing in the first place, and the top-coats are all done and dusted within a few hours, but that prep arrrgghh.

 

Happy though, nothing broke and the next one is sitting there ready to turn as soon as this one is off the spindle and upstairs to meet its back half.

 

 

 

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Don't know precisely,  probably 120 - 180rpm....2-3 Hz

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That is a lot of work for a home setup 

Better you ( younger ) than me ( older gentleman) to start a new project 

 

Everything is doable with a little patience but what’s most important is the systematic setup prior to commencement 

 

As you know I follow your progress and you have ticked most of the setup issues that may plague other DIY projects

 

Don’t forget that you owe me a visit when you are in Brisbane 

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Thought it was finally time to put the DHT preamplifier in a box.  I've invested in some beautiful 10/210/310 tube which carry the original globe shape from the 1920/30's.  They are so beautiful and to think I am holding something in my hand that is about 90 years old.  Here are some of them fresh off the tube tester (they all test well!!).  Look at those very early girls with the larger glass...so pretty...

 

1228544559_Myprecious.jpg.874d096c6bf9f8bab52b0054008b5853.jpg

 

Although 10's are quite non-microphonic, globe tubes tend toward microphony, so I have gone overboard with the preamp chassis design to be extremely heavy and have both horizontal and vertical vibration isolation built into it just like the amplifiers on the horn stacks.  DHT's are very prone to noise on the filaments so the power supplies need to be absolutely first rate and the whole thing needs to be laid out with plenty of room and a lot of forethought so things don't hum or buzz or generally pick up interference from elsewhere or within the circuit itself.

 

Initially I was working towards a two box setup:  one for power supply; one for the preamplifier itself.  In the end I decided that because of where the preamp will sit within the room and the possibility that it may go on the floor or on top of a cabinet that one box would be better.  Here it is...

 

Chassis1.jpg.851818a6cc9c0da21d8fb98f425817b1.jpg

 

It is bloody big.  Certainly taller than I originally hoped and also a but larger in footprint.  Oh well, it is either jamm stuff in there a bit too tight and compromise the circuit, leave out the vibration isolation, split it into two boxes (which is a bigger footprint again) or put up with it.  Let's face it...everything else in the room is enormous so it is not like it will be alone.  A single, simple LCD display with everything controlled from the remote control.  Even the power switch will be a foot pedal just like the amplifiers...I love those foot pedals!

 

Out back are six source inputs and the stereo pair outputs with everything paralleled in RCA and BNC connectors.  The BNC point down at 45 degrees because the cables I have here have heaps of external shielding and weigh a lot...easier on the connectors if most of their load is removed by pointing them down.  

 

1075849398_Chassis2.jpg.8c605f2fb51278078d25b07fdd0a1edf.jpg

 

 

The base containes the pneumatics, AC power transformers (x5), input selector, control circuits and the in/out cable connections.  Four of the power transformers actually hang from the next level but are included in this sketch...

 

Chassis4.jpg.7a16554fc4484672760b8916fb5000fd.jpg

 

On top of the base is the actual amplifier circuit, which all sits on the horizontal and vertical isolation so is very mobile (wobbly).  Just a handful of wires will make their way up into the isolated area.  The tubes are at the intersection of two thick steel walls for ultimate rigidity and weight.  The tube socket may or may not end up sitting on some little isolating pads of cork or sorbothane...I'll let me ears decide.  The end result should be the tube coupled to a whole lot of weight which is highly damped and vibration isolated at about 4Hz or perhaps a little lower...

 

Chassis3.jpg.f5ff1f386244f419d0cb4a59cd518c0d.jpg

 

 

As you can see the preamp is completely dual mono from start to finish and sensitive components are well shielded from interference.  It is my all out attempt for the best result I can manage from the circuit.  There is even extra room in there to trial some different power supplies at some stage.  All up there are 13 pieces of iron and just two tubes in the preamp.  It has 8x gain and should be somewhere near 0.01% THD at 4Vrms output.  When it is all boxed up I will measure all those things and post them here.

 

Chassis5.jpg.823805406e6a3f9c1b75368ddaf18619.jpg

 

 

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I'm using a mu follower which preserves all of the gain.   You must be using an output transformer.

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Yep.  For my application where I need low output impedance and all the gain the 10 can offer I think it is the best method.  Could go a two stage preamp to really boost the gain and then sort the output impedance with an output transformer and the Slagle Autoformers but I am pretty sure that keeping it simple will give the best results in this application.  Might be tricky to keep THD to reasonable levels with a two stage DHT preamp...and the extra room required for another 6 to 8 pieces of iron...wow...the chassis would be high-rise.

Edited by acg
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  • 2 weeks later...

LCR RIAA build underway

 

Also happening is a lot of planning for the LCR Phonostage build.  My mate Pete in the UK has designed and built a handful of them with each a refinement in circuit and parts and by all accounts they sound magnificent for the people that now own them.  Thankfully Pete has not only shared the circuit with me but we have adapted it to hopefully suit my specific needs.  Tubes are E810F first stage, wired in pentode, and a D3a second stage wired in triode.  Preceding it is a Dave Slagle (Intact Audio) silver SUT potted in beeswax in heavy mu-metal cans which is wound specifically to suit my MC Anna cartridge and this phonostage.  Power transformers and chokes by Black Art and Intact Audio, 80% nickel anode choke for the E810f and an 80% nickel output transformer for the D3a.  We adjusted the second stage circuit a little especially so that the 80% nickel OPT could be used in place of a 49%.  Dave reckoned it could be done and it has.  I adore nickel core transformers...they should not sound better but they just do.

 

LCR refers to the passive Inductance/Capacitance/Resistance filter used to perform the RIAA EQ.  Most inexpensive phonostages have an active filter in the feedback loop of a gain stage.  Philosophically, this does not suit me, plus they seem to be limited in sound quality.  Passive RC filters can be used between gain stages, but again, I am after the ultimate...this is an all-out and nothing-left-on-the-table design and build.  My TT/arm/cart is wonderful and I wish for the finest phonostage to complete the vinyl system.  Passive LCR with tubes it is, very similar to Thrax, Ypsilon, Ares Cerat, Tomas Mayer etc..

 

The job of the phonostage is perhaps the most difficult in the audio chain.  With MC carts, it recieves signals of just 0.2mV and must amplify that about 5000x to get to circa one volt output, 10,000 times for two volt output.  At the same time it needs to apply the RIAA correction to bring the frequency response of the system back to flat and keep signal-to-noise ratio under control...a huge ask.  First amplification stage is super important and there is no doubt in my mind that a step up transformer (SUT) is the best and only reasonable way to go.  This takes the voltage from 0.2mV to perhaps 6mV.  Then the E810f ups the signal a bit more, we lose about 20dB in the passive LCR filter and then the D3a amplifies again for a final output of about 1V...just enough for my system.

 

Most passive LCR filters are designed for a 600ohm input and output impedance.  This is a difficult load for most valves (and many opamps too) because a very low output impedance of the previous stage is necessary which limits the tubes that can be used.  The filter to be built here has a high and constant input impedance of about 10kOhm which means there is a freedom to choose better vacuum tubes...aha...and also because the the filter will be better 'driven' by the gain stage preceding it along with smaller capacitor values in the signal path.  All this gives opportunity for better sound quality.

 

So, the build will have a LOT of iron, 19 transformers is total:  5 power transformers; 6 chokes in the power supply (LCLCLC filter) including four 49% nickel chokes; a pair of 80% nickel anode chokes for the first stage; a pair of 80% nickel 1:1 output transformers to push the signal to the preamps.  This means a lot of real estate if you want to lay things out for minimum interference which means two big heavy boxes.

 

The power supply will likely sit on the floor under the turntable and has inbuilt vibration isolation down to about 8Hz.  It needs longer legs/feet to separate it from the carpet...

 

PSU3.jpg.8aa9ad2e0e72dda6d57b96057c468cf9.jpg

 

With the lid off you can see the simple nature of the unregulated power supply.  Two cables will snake up to the phono amplifier chassis:  one carrying B+ and one carrying filament DC.  Captive power lead, a ground lift switch just in case and a foot pedal to turn it on and off, just like the amplifiers and preamplifier...I love foot pedal switches!

 

PSU1.jpg.8cb15c95bf8e778c341dbc640125e455.jpg

 

The phonostage itself is a very simple industrial look just like the rest of my gear...four tubes on top with the phono cable from the arm plugging into the top as well...

 

230831713_LCRRIAA1.jpg.0a4bcd0c987d0dddb46b11758a4009ea.jpg

 

 

Horizontal isolation is built in and this chassis is designed to sit on top of one of my pneumatic vibration isolation platforms.  Output is either BNC or RCA...

 

1531901092_LCRRIAA2.jpg.0e53b33c20dd3fd9d61dad4d2c0a332e.jpg

 

Inside is also simply laid out in an over-the-top fashion.  Low level inductors amplify everything they receive including radiated noise so I have gone to special lengths to minimise this parasitic influence by encasing everything internally in steel sarcophogi.

 

173477772_LCRRIAA3.jpg.172aaac73cc070742c0a18b8bf5e93e1.jpg

 

This is an actual LCR filter about to go into an RFI proof box...

1616751509_LCRFilter.jpg.045a2a8818f1e1477e2c5933c68989c8.jpg

 

...in the sketch below you can see the RFI box further encased in 6mm and 4mm steel...

 

360413304_LCRRIAA4.jpg.7eee7f07f937d8254f4cb9bdccab14c0.jpg

 

The SUT, which deals with the smallest signals is already potted into heavy (2mm thick) mumetal cans, but I will further encase that in 6mm steel (white cylinder in image below)...

 

 

1315021571_LCRRIAA5.jpg.51ab01b041fd4a58bbcb63f694f3d028.jpg

 

For quite a simple circuit there is quite a bit to putting it into a pair of chassis' to my satisfaction!

 

 

 

Edited by acg
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The first horn is more or less primed and ready for the top-coat.  Sort of.  Had an error of judgement this week that three small blemishes would not sand out this weekend and more undercoat would be required but with due application all three said blemishes have disappeared.  This leaves me short...

 

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You see there is this problem that I knew all along I would have...see how the horn is 'painted' onto the lathe faceplate...

 

20210207_112547.thumb.jpg.67b7a8723136e48df5fa4ccb39549576.jpg

 

...this is untidy and requires remediation.  The intention is to cut the paint right at the join, unbolt the horn from the faceplate, get longer M10 bolts and then re-attach the horn to the faceplate but with a gap between the wood and the steel.  Obviously, with the horn now a little precarious I will not want to spin the thing back up to cutting/sanding speed but I reckon I can balance it enough to spin at the lowest speed which will allow me to apply topcoat when the time comes.  With a small gap there I can tidy up the undercoat where it will be cut with some hand sanding.  That is the plan.

 

Turns out my pessimism regarding the three blemishes had led to neglecting a visit to my favourite fasteners store during the week to get longer M10 bolts and appropriate nuts so I've hit a road-block and will not get to paint these black today.  Refuse to go to Bunnings for them.  Probably for the best...it is a little warm today and the paint does not go on well when it is starting to dry between the nozzle and the wood.

 

Till next weekend...or perhaps during the week if I can sneak some time.   As you might be able to see I've removed one of the M10 bolts to take downtown during the week for a longer variant.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 21/08/2020 at 10:15 AM, acg said:

 

Yeah, it is a bit lot like that now.  Even with a drop down screen I could not get a larger picture and have both seats see all of it past the speakers.  Those 1m diameter horns at the front hide a lot of potential screen real estate, and because I listen in nearfield I am very close to the speakers...too close for a screen in-between.

 

 

On the subject of that other thread, the JBL surrounds have arrived and I have lumped them into their respective corners.  Am waiting for some long balanced interconnects to arrive (hopefully Monday) so they can be hooked up and I can do a bit of listening.  Will make up some wall mounts to get the speakers high up into the ceiling corners.  Was concerned about their size and colour but I think they will work well.  Black in those corners is not a disruptive as I thought it might be.

 

 

 

993384913_JBLRight.jpg.e7378a543af12955daeb8d3db9cf5d62.jpg

 

 

 

557737937_JBLLeft.jpg.e0e3770117cbdc5a4febb9cdd4b6a12d.jpg

 

 

 

Yeah, look at all the Qld winter light out those windows.  Had a winter dust storm yesterday...yes, in winter.

Can I ask, what model these JBL surrounds are?

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  • 1 month later...

@:) Go Away (:

 

Went to the cinema yesterday with my young son to watch Godzilla V Kong and the sound compared to what I have at home was complete crap...thought my ears were going to start bleeding...not really but you get what I mean.  Take home message is that those JBL's make really good surround speakers when paired to some big front horns like mine.

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1 minute ago, acg said:

@:) Go Away (:

 

Went to the cinema yesterday with my young son to watch Godzilla V Kong and the sound compared to what I have at home was complete crap...thought my ears were going to start bleeding...not really but you get what I mean.  Take home message is that those JBL's make really good surround speakers when paired to some big front horns like mine.

Thought the same at my local Dendy cinemas watching the Joker movie

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59 minutes ago, acg said:

@:) Go Away (:

 

Went to the cinema yesterday with my young son to watch Godzilla V Kong and the sound compared to what I have at home was complete crap...thought my ears were going to start bleeding...not really but you get what I mean.  Take home message is that those JBL's make really good surround speakers when paired to some big front horns like mine.

I am actually on my way now to watch the Godzilla vs Kong. 
 

I bet the LSR708p sounds just awesome. I had been debating on getting the Passive version LSR708i or the LSR708p, but the passive ones require external crossover and active ones are out of my reach.
 

For now, I have placed an order for JBL LSR308 to see how they go for me.

Edited by :) Go Away (:
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12 hours ago, acg said:

@:) Go Away (:

 

Went to the cinema yesterday with my young son to watch Godzilla V Kong and the sound compared to what I have at home was complete crap...thought my ears were going to start bleeding...not really but you get what I mean.  Take home message is that those JBL's make really good surround speakers when paired to some big front horns like mine.

You were correct.

 

First movie in almost 2 years at cinema and it was utter crap. The movie it self was really terrible and the sound wasn't what I remembered from this cinema. There was no clarity, the bass was all over place and didn't dig deep, the experience just wasn't good at all. I feel like I wasted good time of my life that could have been spent well watching a movie at home.

 

I had seen the Captain Marvell and Avengers Endgame in that same cinema, and I had happy memories of it sounding really good, but this time it just sounded crap. Makes me think the movie itself isn't mixed well.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sexy AF...

 

IMG_7001.thumb.JPG.43eff6718d752cb0321a96bd3326adac.JPG

 

 

First upperbass horn is in da house!

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My mate Dave wondered over and we lugged the front half of the UB horn upstairs.  Definitely a two man lift...almost a three.

 

Then we had to figure out a way to lift the 70kg+ back half onto the front half without flattening some fingers...

 

IMG_6994.thumb.JPG.16e69fbe3703ffcf718d4949fd06ce91.JPG

 

Got there though.  Here is Dave installing the M10 threaded rods to keep the pair together...

 

IMG_6995.thumb.JPG.94a10896775a64fda1edaada44a14e04.JPG

 

Then on with the driver...

 

IMG_6997.thumb.JPG.366f334201f7c18e59c0881d89b01d61.JPG

 

Back chamber ready to go...

 

IMG_6998.thumb.JPG.253f4e1e8238b1154f3cb8f107fdd2f0.JPG

 

Then all together...never mind the greasy handprints...

 

IMG_6999.thumb.JPG.5741a398ebb07c588b8422cd4ba4fc8c.JPG

 

 

Will be quite a bit of tuning of the backchamber to get things right, but I am very happy.  Put the second front-half on the lathe in the dark tonight and will get to turning it in the next few days I hope.

 

 

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Very nice, amazing mate. Such an amazing job, blows me away the amount of work you’ve put in and the quality and attention to detail is out of this world.

I have to come for a listen one day. ?

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That big horn really pulls it all together ?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Quick progress has been made!  Wait what?  Is this the right thread?  haha.

 

1811059221_IMG_7004(Custom).JPG.7cb0d7a3c425a15f2c408bf7e84ab136.JPG

 

Following all the excitement of completing one Upperbass Horn, great progress has been made on the second.  Four early mornings starting in the pre-dawn glow (no shed lights) to cut it into shape on the lathe...maybe 9 hours total...then a couple of days to putty up all the overly agressive scrapes and holes in the thing...say 3 hours sanding and bogging...then a couple of days to get six coats of undercoat on that dastardly end-grain MDF, two hours total.  So, once I was set up properly, it has taken 14 hours of actual work to get this horn from MDF rings to primed.  This is by far the fastest horn to get to this stage so I must have actually learned something along the way of turning and painting 14 different things on the lathe for this project.  A big help has been the use of a different cutting tip which although it is slower, when used properly it leaves a nice easy to finish cut surface...big difference!

 

The paint seems to have gone on nicely.  It will need a week or so to dry properly then I will sand it back and see what I have got.  Probably will require another half dozen coats of primer followed by more sanding but odds are good that it will more or less be ready for the black top-coat in a few weeks.  Fingers crossed to having it upstairs in about four weeks.

 

And then the system is more or less complete.  Apart from system tuning, some electronics work and final room treatment.  Can't wait.

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25 minutes ago, acg said:

Quick progress has been made!  Wait what?  Is this the right thread?

 

Very good - spot on there!

 

This is such good news.

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Posted (edited)

@BioBrian, I sorta have to rush now.  With one un-tuned UB horn in action and the other UB channel just a 8" driver sitting on a cardboard box the sound is certainly not what it could be, but boy oh boy does the UB horn bring some dynamics and energy!  Visceral like having a real drum kit in the room plus it seems to have tamed some room modes, which is an unexpected but very welcome bonus.  

 

EDIT:  Oh, and I should mention that it is completely and utterly inert.  Just with the back of the hand 'feel' test no vibration can be detected at any part of the horn even at crazy volume...mission achieved.  Lighter, less comprehensive UB horns I have listened to vibrate like crazy, particularly at the mouth.  So relieved after all this effort.

Edited by acg
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6 hours ago, acg said:

it seems to have tamed some room modes, which is an unexpected but very welcome bonus. 

 

You already have bass coming from multiple sources, so I expect 'the unexpected' would only get better.

 

6 hours ago, acg said:

boy oh boy does the UB horn bring some dynamics and energy!  Visceral like having a real drum kit in the room

 

I could use some of that! The drivers look to have fairly large magnets. Are voice coils large too?

 

What's the rear enclosed volume, and how is it adjustable?

 

6 hours ago, acg said:

it is completely and utterly inert.  Just with the back of the hand 'feel' test no vibration can be detected at any part of the horn even at crazy volume...mission achieved.

 

I'm not surprised, given its colossal mass and stiffness, but the sad audiophile part of me wants to give a weentzy thankyou to the random bits of bog that staunchly prevent the proliferation of rampant resonances... Funny that in French Horns, Trombones etc, we design in the horn resonance, and in hifi we design it out.

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13 hours ago, BioBrian said:

I could use some of that! The drivers look to have fairly large magnets. Are voice coils large too?

 

136248485_FaneStudio8MSpecs.jpg.84e50d6e8eb596fe9735db05d8333fcd.jpg

 

These drivers are long out of production but are still sought after for people building circa 100Hz horns.  I have a pair each of 16ohm and 8ohm variants and would love to find another pair of 16ohm if anybody had some...

 

 

13 hours ago, BioBrian said:

What's the rear enclosed volume, and how is it adjustable?

 

Will determine that when I get around to measuring the horn in the room.  Options include a stiff expanding foam that I cut to shape with a knife or I can glue/screw in more rings of wood to lessen the volume.  Assuming of course that it is not already undersized (made an educated guess really) which would be quite inconvenient having to get handy with a hammer and chisel or even return the backchamber to the lathe to make more room.  Hopefully it does not come to that.

 

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  • 1 month later...

This happened today...

20210528_185505.thumb.jpg.c50c4f8f0958e81f29545aab0b2b414b.jpg

 

Just a crappy phone photo but omg... finally....

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9 minutes ago, acg said:

This happened today...

20210528_185505.thumb.jpg.c50c4f8f0958e81f29545aab0b2b414b.jpg

 

Just a crappy phone photo but omg... finally....

I agree!

 

OMG! and I can only see a pic xD

 

It straight away made me think of this!

dude.jpg.b686218b4e91ec281daa4aae2f54d3df.jpg

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It certainly does that...a truly visceral playback...

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1 hour ago, acg said:

This happened today...

20210528_185505.thumb.jpg.c50c4f8f0958e81f29545aab0b2b414b.jpg

 

Just a crappy phone photo but omg... finally....

 

Wow!  What are they?  :)

 

Andy

 

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OMG.... I'm so glad I can't hear these. It would make me unhappy with my system for the rest of my life!  ;)

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