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I've owned 3 Citroens but they have become boring appliances since they became a part of PSA. They've even dropped hydropneumatic suspension.

Tesla is the innovative car maker that Citroen used to be

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My EV journey has begun.  Picked up “Zephyr” last night at 6.30pm ( along with 5 other people getting their EV  at the same time). It’s my second car where I looked at the number plate and realised Qu

Now now there's no need for that. My smug look is because I can drag you off.

12 months plus of Tesla ownership after waiting a decade plus to own a truely practical EV.  How do I sum it up in one picture ....and I am not great with a camera.   ( photo: looking back from my dri

Getting ready for the weekend today so I had the car plugged in.  I checked the cumulative fuel economy for the first 9 months of Model 3 performance ownership (18 inch wheel spec).

 

I am averaging 144Wh per km which equals an average range of 500km or 314 miles per 100% charge. I have only ever needed to charge to 90% and the lowest I have gone is in the 20% range because.....I tend to over plan rather than under plan. 
 

The EPA economy spec on this car is ....310 miles of autonomy. Try achieving that (EPA economy) in a BMW M3.  I mostly drive smoothly and somewhat conservatively without hypermiling, but I am also rarely second away from stop lights for some reason.

 

 Interestingly the most efficient EVs are the sleek ones with a low Cd  ( Ioniq/model 3) not the small ones (Zoe/Mini/308).

 

I would be interest to hear from other EV owners on here.  What are you getting with typical use. Is it good, bad or meh?

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30 minutes ago, Briz Vegas said:

Getting ready for the weekend today so I had the car plugged in.  I checked the cumulative fuel economy for the first 9 months of Model 3 performance ownership (18 inch wheel spec).

 

I am averaging 144Wh per km which equals an average range of 500km or 314 miles per 100% charge. I have only ever needed to charge to 90% and the lowest I have gone is in the 20% range because.....I tend to over plan rather than under plan. 
 

The EPA economy spec on this car is ....310 miles of autonomy. Try achieving that (EPA economy) in a BMW M3.  I mostly drive smoothly and somewhat conservatively without hypermiling, but I am also rarely second away from stop lights for some reason.

 

 Interestingly the most efficient EVs are the sleek ones with a low Cd  ( Ioniq/model 3) not the small ones (Zoe/Mini/308).

 

I would be interest to hear from other EV owners on here.  What are you getting with typical use. Is it good, bad or meh?

Yours is very good. I'm a lead foot and hammer mine though so there's no point comparing. I get basically double the consumption you get at 280Wh/km (in a model S P100D.)

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I get around 160- 180 Wh/km in summer, 200Wh/km in winter. Battery heating uses a lot of power in winter, especially now that I'm not doing any Hume Hwy commuting so most of my trips are short. It's barely got over 12 degrees here for the last 2 weeks, 7 degrees today

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Not really fair to compare a Victorian EV to a Brisbane one, which makes it somewhat weird that there are probably 3 times as many EVs in southern capitals.  I have now seen an S and X and about 5 model 3s in my adjoining outer eastern suburbs, 2 of which may not have been local local.

 

I was somewhat surprised to achieve EPA economy despite not using my car for a regular commute in stop start traffic, which is the EV sweet spot.  
 

The cheapest 50km or 60km daily commute car ( would need to be a 2 car household) in Australia would have to be a second hand import Nissan Leaf, but a quick check in car sales has surprised me at the prices.  You are looking at $18k for an eight year old locally delivered example with the early dodgy battery tech. It’s definitely the cheapest to run $18k commuter car by a country mile, but you would be better off grabbing a 2015/16 with the better battery for low $20k. It’s the city commute king. If only they came in frog green. 🙂

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wow this is amazing... bmws 1st electric car that was released in 1972 in time for the olympics....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_1602_Elektro-Antrieb

 

The 1602 Elektro-Antrieb used one 32 kW (43 hp) electric motor, front-mounted driving the rear axle. It has a claimed top speed of 100 km/h (62 mph) and acceleration of 0 to 30 mph (0 to 48 km/h) in 8.0 seconds. The 1602 elektro is unique in the fact it has a front engine, rear wheel drive layout.

 

The battery has a total capacity of 12.6 kWh electric vehicle battery these batteries can be charged or replaced with a freshly charged pack, the battery pack weighed 350 kg (772 lb)

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/133336/concept-we-forgot-bmw-1602e/

 

 

image.png

 

image.png

never made to production for commercial release, the models they made were just used as support vehicles  and such for the olympics it seems...

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the VW ID3 will indeed spawn a few versions across VW group.... seat/skoda/audi ...

 

1st up we have the Seat el-born hot hatch ...

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/seat-el-born-now-electric-cupra-hot-hatch

 

01_cupra_el_born_3_4_front-h.jpg?itok=CJ

 

love the interior... why can't VW do interiors like this ? 

03_cupra_el_born_interior_dashboard-h.jp

 

04_cupra_el_born_interior-h.jpg?itok=-Nc

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, betty boop said:

the VW ID3 will indeed spawn a few versions across VW group.... seat/skoda/audi ...

 

1st up we have the Seat el-born hot hatch ...

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/seat-el-born-now-electric-cupra-hot-hatch

 

01_cupra_el_born_3_4_front-h.jpg?itok=CJ

 

love the interior... why can't VW do interiors like this ? 

03_cupra_el_born_interior_dashboard-h.jp

 

04_cupra_el_born_interior-h.jpg?itok=-Nc

 

 

 

Because the steering wheel is on the wrong side 😂😂

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Polestar 2 reviews have started to filter through.  What Car? are more of a shopping trolley review site that compares cup holders, which makes theIr comments all the more interesting in this instance. Polestar’s ( Volvo) claim was that they had a drivers car. Implying they could better their American tech company rivals driving experience.  Errr, no, this review says it comes an ok second on everything but premium looking old school conservative design (even has a reassuring “transmission” hump).

 

Model 3 is more nippy, 300kg lighter, better handling and steering, longer range ( on smaller battery), rides better, more room, and has superior charging / infrastructure.  So Polestar is for people that specifically don’t want a Tesla 3 or Y, or don’t like the styling of same.  People still buy and drive lesser cars in droves all the time, but it’s interesting how this demolishes the arguments of the rabid “Tesla is utter garbage, and real car companies will crush them” brigade. ( yes, there are some annoying Tesla is perfect people as well)

 

 

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WARNING: banned content.  The advertisement below was banned in France because it implied that cars might not be a positive for climate change.  “Like Totally”....pun intended. (Total oil are a French company).

 

 

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12 hours ago, Briz Vegas said:

WARNING: banned content.  The advertisement below was banned in France because it implied that cars might not be a positive for climate change.  “Like Totally”....pun intended. (Total oil are a French company).

"The company’s first TV advertisement was banned in France for its negative portrayal of car traffic and pollution. "

 

And yet they're all over vehicle emissions to reduce pollution in certain regions with restricted travel zones and the “CRIT’Air sticker”.

 

Very strange, maybe not for the French though 😉

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grrr another SUV, but at least its not a behemoth and its actually coming here :D 

 

some circus news in that it is 75mm lower than the regular x3 ! also keeping decent boot etc. laos interestingly no rare earth materials ! and 30% improvement in efficiency !!! good to see the progress :)

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2021-bmw-ix3-electric-suv-goes-official-due-in-australia-next-year-123913.html?

 

 

2021 BMW iX3 electric SUV goes official, due in Australia next year

BMW has unveiled its first pure electric SUV – and its first new electric vehicle in seven years.

"The BMW iX3 midsize SUV is due on sale in Europe later this year before it arrives in Australian showrooms mid-2021.

Unlike previous zero-emissions BMW models, the BMW iX3 shares its underpinnings with the conventional petrol- and diesel-powered X3 that has been on sale in Australia since late 2017.

The iX3 debuts the fifth-generation of BMW’s eDrive electric drivetrain technology, also set to underpin next year’s electric i4 liftback and iNext SUV.

One powertrain configuration will be offered at launch, featuring a lithium-ion battery pack mounted low in the floor with a usable capacity of 74kWh (or 80kWh gross).

It feeds drive to a single electric motor mounted on the rear axle producing 210kW of power and 400Nm of torque.

BMW claims a 0-100km/h time of 6.8 seconds – about half a second slower than the 185kW, petrol X3 xDrive30i – towards an electronically-limited top speed of 180km/h.

The aforementioned electric motor is claimed to be 30 per cent more efficient than any other e-motor produced by the BMW Group, and does not feature rare-earth materials in its construction.

There’s no word of a dual-motor, all-wheel-drive model in the pipeline, despite the fact that all of the BMW iX3’s main competitors – Audi e-tron, Mercedes-Benz EQC, Jaguar I-Pace and Tesla Model Y – offer all-wheel drive as standard or as an option.

BMW says the iX3 has a driving range of 460 kilometres on Europe’s WLTP (real-world) test cycle. On the more lenient NEDC laboratory test – equivalent to the system used in Australia – the claimed driving range increases to 520km.

Should you run out of power, you’ll be able to recharge the iX3’s sustainably-constructed battery up to 80 per cent capacity in 34 minutes on a 150kW DC fast-charger. Adding 100km of WLTP-rated range takes as little as 10 minutes, the company says.

Also available is an 11kW AC charging via a home wallbox."

 

 

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looks like VW has trade marked the e - version of some of their long standing classics...

 

in 

 

e-Beetle, e-Karmann, e-Kübel, and e-Golf Classic

 

"suggesting a range of fully-electric retro models could be under development."

 

or could just mean they dont want anyone else to steal them :D what i love is the VW chairman on record saying if they do beetle it will be like the original ... rear wheel drive ! :) 

 

https://www.caradvice.com.au/866717/volkswagen-e-beetle-and-e-karmann-names-trademarked/

 

Volkswagen has previously indicated it plans to build an electric version of the modern Kombi – as a van and a people mover – as the company looks to its past to map out its future.

CarAdvice reported in 2017 and again in 2018 on an electric VW Beetle. Herbert Diess, now VW chairman, told British car magazine Autocar in late 2017: "If we wanted to do a Beetle, electrically it would be much better than [the last Beetle] model, much closer to history, because it could be rear-wheel drive".

 

The VW e-Karmann also appears to be resurrecting the moniker of the VW Karmann Ghia, a two-door sports car based on the original Beetle's platform and produced from 1955 to 1974.

Karmann refers to the German coachbuilder responsible for producing the body of the car, while Ghia refers to the car's designer – Italian company Carrozzeria Ghia. It's likely the trademarked e-Karmann name omits Ghia as the company is still in operation, with the Karmann business closing its doors in 2010.

The e-Kübel name is reference to the Type 181, better known as the VW Thing.

 

Volkswagen may also be planning another retro model. The e-Golf Classic could refer to a new retro model paying homage to the first generation of VW Golf models, with the render above coming from a Russian car news website Kolesa suggesting a retro electric Golf model in 2019.

All four models could be based on Volkswagen's MEB electric 'skateboard' platform. The 'skateboard' concept allows car manufacturers to fit a number of different bodies on top of a common vehicle 'platform', saving substantial costs.

 

 

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Don’t bother with all the other “ car” reviewers, listen to Uncle Bjorn.  The number of car journalists out there that think they can review an EV after reading the press release and focusing on Apple car play .....it does my head in.

 

This guy is the expert end user. 100%.  Case in point.  This is a proper preview of the Nissan Ariya and how it should perform in the real world ( preview caveats aside). Good stuff.

 

 

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I don't mind the car or his reviewing style for what is a features rundown. I  guess we'll have to wait  to find out how it drives. I do see one problem though for the Ariya which is common to performance EV's and that's the weight. 2200kg for the quick AWD version. You're going to feel that in corners.

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2200kg.  Ouch.  polestar is similar, 2150kg.. 

 

A petrol 2020 Peugeot 208 is 1080kg, the e208 is 1530kg with a 50KW battery.  Interestingly that would mean a Model 3 would weigh about 1180kg as a petrol car.  
 

Right now I think a 50kW battery is the sweet spot for an EV drivers car.  Decent range and not too heavy. 

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2 minutes ago, Briz Vegas said:

2200kg.  Ouch.  polestar is similar, 2150kg.. 

 

A petrol 2020 Peugeot 208 is 1080kg, the e208 is 1530kg with a 50KW battery.  Interestingly that would mean a Model 3 would weigh about 1180kg as a petrol car.  
 

Right now I think a 50kW battery is the sweet spot for an EV drivers car.  Decent range and not too heavy. 

batteries certainly adding weight...

 

the fiat 500e is lighter at 1355kg

but non electric fiat 500 i had only weighed 865kg... :D (so does that mean 490kg of batteries ! 😮 

 

the mini electric is also 1365kg so also relatively light for an EV..

the non electric version is 1145kg :)  (is that 220kg of batteries)

 

 

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Would like to see the pricing for Fiat 500e here but actually sceptical we'll see it. Any news on it getting here?

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, eman said:

Would like to see the pricing for Fiat 500e here but actually sceptical we'll see it. Any news on it getting here?

 

 

 

 

no news...

 

here again the e version is about twice price of the petrol version here ..

 

https://www.caradvice.com.au/833086/fiat-500-electric/

 

"Pre-sales in the UK begin today. The Fiat 500 Convertible Convertible ‘La Prima’ launch edition is priced at £29,000 (AU$52,300). By comparison, a 2020 Fiat Club Convertible comes in at AU$27,250 before on-road costs."

 

and thats without australia tax... or whether even going to get here.

 

my thoughts given demand in europe where fiat 500 is huge... it will sell there... given small volumes are they may not bother... but thats just me speculating ... they have nearly 700million euro - 1B dollars to recoup though  for what was a completely new ground up effort...so will have to cost quite a bit new to recoup....

 

seemingly price of the 500e if came here be line ball with the mini...not sure how that will go down.... mini name caries more here.... the fiat has a decent range 320km...but heavy batteries which hits performance .... 0-100 in 9 sec vs much shorter range of the mini which is half that an optimistic 160km ! but its a bit quicker 0-100 7.2sec keeping a bit more of its mini heritage as we have seen in review posted here...

 

mini more the inner city car here... fiat 500e more the car you'd take further afield....?

 

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1 hour ago, betty boop said:

no news...

 

here again the e version is about twice price of the petrol version here ..

 

https://www.caradvice.com.au/833086/fiat-500-electric/

 

"Pre-sales in the UK begin today. The Fiat 500 Convertible Convertible ‘La Prima’ launch edition is priced at £29,000 (AU$52,300). By comparison, a 2020 Fiat Club Convertible comes in at AU$27,250 before on-road costs."

 

and thats without australia tax... or whether even going to get here.

 

my thoughts given demand in europe where fiat 500 is huge... it will sell there... given small volumes are they may not bother... but thats just me speculating ... they have nearly 700million euro - 1B dollars to recoup though  for what was a completely new ground up effort...so will have to cost quite a bit new to recoup....

 

seemingly price of the 500e if came here be line ball with the mini...not sure how that will go down.... mini name caries more here.... the fiat has a decent range 320km...but heavy batteries which hits performance .... 0-100 in 9 sec vs much shorter range of the mini which is half that an optimistic 160km ! but its a bit quicker 0-100 7.2sec keeping a bit more of its mini heritage as we have seen in review posted here...

 

mini more the inner city car here... fiat 500e more the car you'd take further afield....?

 

Silly extra money for the 'e' version. $50k AU for a 500.  Why !??

Not paying that much.

I'd gamble on an air cooled Leaf first.

Limited range of the mini means not getting out of town at all in Oz, maybe different in Europe.

 

Don't really need to submerge myself in all things electric right now but....... If I'm going to look at getting one......

 

I see Marc has an 'electrics'  forum in his signature.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, eman said:

Silly extra money for the 'e' version. $50k AU for a 500.  Why !??

yeah when consider the $50k could buy 3 fiat 500s i had ... and still leave some cash spare :D  is the electric car using 3 times the earths resources and why costs so much ...suspect not... lot of R&D and investment to recoup... but no doubt its those batteries for the 320km range...

 

6 minutes ago, eman said:

I'd gamble on an air cooled Leaf first.

unfortunately one of those is no cheaper though....

 

6 minutes ago, eman said:

Limited range of the mini means not getting out of town at all in Oz, maybe different in Europe.

agree...though for say my wife if she didnt drive the family car ....it would do... though it would not make a very good family car ... like our fiat 500 the kids would refuse to sit in the back :D 

 

7 minutes ago, eman said:

Don't really need to submerge myself in all things electric right now but

am happy on the side lines to see how things turn out and what comes... all in good time I say...

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5 hours ago, betty boop said:

yeah when consider the $50k could buy 3 fiat 500s i had ... and still leave some cash spare :D  is the electric car using 3 times the earths resources and why costs so much ...suspect not... lot of R&D and investment to recoup... but no doubt its those batteries for the 320km range...

 

unfortunately one of those is no cheaper though....

 

agree...though for say my wife if she didnt drive the family car ....it would do... though it would not make a very good family car ... like our fiat 500 the kids would refuse to sit in the back :D 

 

am happy on the side lines to see how things turn out and what comes... all in good time I say...

At least the Leaf looks like you've got a bit more for the money.

 

I was counting on waiting about another 5 yrs but now my 5m long 'big wagon for a big country' is permanently in the city after all the bushfire bullshit.

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10 hours ago, betty boop said:

yeah when consider the $50k could buy 3 fiat 500s i had ... and still leave some cash spare :D  is the electric car using 3 times the earths resources and why costs so much ...suspect not... lot of R&D and investment to recoup... but no doubt its those batteries for the 320km range...

It's a reflection of the high cost of battery manufacturing for FIAT and the limited ability of their suppliers to scale as demand grows from manufacturers. This is where Tesla has first mover advantage, they produce as many batteries as everyone else combined so their costs are dropping faster. It either means product with better price or better range than a competitor.

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24 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

It's a reflection of the high cost of battery manufacturing for FIAT and the limited ability of their suppliers to scale as demand grows from manufacturers. This is where Tesla has first mover advantage, they produce as many batteries as everyone else combined so their costs are dropping faster. It either means product with better price or better range than a competitor.

I'd like Tesla to make a proper 'compact' but they're stuck in the American Bigger is Better routine unfortunately. Look at the size of that stupid 'truck' thing. Bigger than a twin cab step side F150.

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29 minutes ago, eman said:

I'd like Tesla to make a proper 'compact' but they're stuck in the American Bigger is Better routine unfortunately. Look at the size of that stupid 'truck' thing. Bigger than a twin cab step side F150.

Agree Tesla is clearly working in another realm .. re fiat 500 not sure we will even get it ! But I saw video on it and gosh it looks fantastic ! New ground up design it’s not like mini that’s been made electric ... i’d wait if can cars like new Peugeot.  gosh we are talking French and Italian cars :D but they make the Nissan look so old hack ... in a conventional car form rather than anything whacky electric !!! But then the Nissan to us very much in that form it’s possibly the steady reliable well known ...with track record ... devil we know !  I’d just wish it’s new gen would come but too far out if considering now 

 

right now in small really mini is it... or konaev but that’s a very overpriced cheap car at basis if it !

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a couple of videos on the fiat 500e

 

this one is just a lot of phots video

 

this one is interesting to se what went into its making ... fiat clearly taking 500 very seriously .. they dont want it to be an electric appliance...

 

It makes it clear that following in its predecessor’s highly successful footsteps was difficult and allowed for zero missteps. 

Looking at the new all-electric Fiat 500, you might start to think that the automaker was a bit lazy in redesigning it. At first glance, it looks a whole lot like the gasoline-burning car before it, but as is so often the case in life, that first appearance can be deceiving.

Fiat was kept afloat by the 500 it launched way back in 2008, a model which was so good and popular that it’s still in production today with minor updates. In fact, it will be kept in production in parallel to the new electric model just because there’s still demand for it.

 

 

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Ok. I want a Fiat 500e. (In Jaffa orange).

I don't need it now, which is just as well, (& I'd rather it not cost $50k).

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, eman said:

I'd like Tesla to make a proper 'compact' but they're stuck in the American Bigger is Better routine unfortunately. Look at the size of that stupid 'truck' thing. Bigger than a twin cab step side F150.

Tesla will, there's a small car designed by Tesla China that's likely to find a market there and in Europe. As soon as battery costs reach price parity, you'll see it. Tesla are many years ahead of other manufacturers in cost and battery availability. Porsche has sole 6 thousand odd Taycans in the last quarter, constrained by battery availability

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2 hours ago, proftournesol said:

Tesla will, there's a small car designed by Tesla China that's likely to find a market there and in Europe. As soon as battery costs reach price parity, you'll see it. Tesla are many years ahead of other manufacturers in cost and battery availability. Porsche has sole 6 thousand odd Taycans in the last quarter, constrained by battery availability

Frankly haven't been thrilled by any vehicles out of China. Won't be rushing to get a first gen one of those.

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https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/volkswagen-id3-1st-edition-not-cheap

 

yikes vw  ID3 not going to be cheap ! Seems in uk it dits above mini and Honda ev and Tesla but still ends up 40000 gbp ! 
 

not sure what that would make it here ? Peoples car ? 

 

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16 minutes ago, betty boop said:


https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/volkswagen-id3-1st-edition-not-cheap

 

yikes vw  ID3 not going to be cheap ! Seems in uk it dits above mini and Honda ev and Tesla but still ends up 40000 gbp ! 
 

not sure what that would make it here ? Peoples car ? 

 

It would make it stupidly overpriced.

100k after currency and taxes?

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52 minutes ago, eman said:

It would make it stupidly overpriced.

100k after currency and taxes?

Don’t think that much... cheapest Tesla in Vic is $74k on road ...

 

mini electric is 60k on road ...

 

so if prices in between like in uk makes Vw id3 at $67k ???

 

which is still crazy as been able to pick up a optioned gti or base golf R for $50k!

 

prices going up for everything I guess... especially new models even Tesla 3 took price hike of $6k and that’s before on roads :)

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No other manufacturer can currently make batteries cheaper than Tesla, in volume. If they are going to be cost competitive at the moment, it'll only be if they come with a smaller pack or cut costs elsewhere

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In the meantime my cheap giant old wagon runs problem free and hauls furniture about internally for weather, damage and theft protection.

 

No incentive for me to buy overpriced electric even though I'm interested....

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2 hours ago, proftournesol said:

No other manufacturer can currently make batteries cheaper than Tesla, in volume. If they are going to be cost competitive at the moment, it'll only be if they come with a smaller pack or cut costs elsewhere

 

What we need is some companies making 3rd party batteries in "bulk", and manufacturers buying from them.  Maybe even lends itself to some standardisation?

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2 hours ago, eman said:

It would make it stupidly overpriced.

100k after currency and taxes?

I wouldn't go on UK pricing for VW's.

 

A current Mk 7.5 GTI including on roads lists for 33.5k pounds in the UK.

 

That's aud$60,000

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31 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

What we need is some companies making 3rd party batteries in "bulk", and manufacturers buying from them.  Maybe even lends itself to some standardisation?

lot going on in batteries ... eg GM with their pouches and working on 60% was it better energy efficiency... ? so a bit happening with competition forcing advances...

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41 minutes ago, ArthurDent said:

I wouldn't go on UK pricing for VW's.

 

A current Mk 7.5 GTI including on roads lists for 33.5k pounds in the UK.

 

That's aud$60,000

So that makes electric VW  ID quoted earlier at 40k GBP only about $70k AU?

 

What a bargain !

(What a racking joke).

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