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betty boop

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19 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Another factor is reliability. 

 

I am reminded of this as yesterday my Lithium battery pack for my drill - only used a half dozen times, completely failed.  The charger attempts to charge it, the gives an error saying the battery is faulty.  This is a battery tech that's supposedly done and dusted, yet they still fail.   

 

I worry that a new super battery needs to prove itself in the field.  Rechargeable batteries that fail have been pissing off consumers for decades.

I’ve never had battery issues with the Makita stuff I have bought, however I consider myself very lucky....    the 1st ever Makita drill was a 9.6v Nicad, remember those?  I had that drill to do 3 properties of projects and took it to work since then for installations where 100s of screws are removed and used!  Bought that in 1996 and one of the Nicads dies last year. That’s almost 24yrs of use! ..  The Mikita 18V lithium is 5yrs old and i now take that to work.   Batteries are a hit and miss,  some will last forever others not so great...it’s just a luck of the draw....   if you buy junk real cheap stuff that’s cheaply made for cost, I doubt they will last either....   

The Tesla batteries are from partnered with Panasonic and they warranty that for 8yrs, others can correct me if I’m wrong.   Panasonic manufacturer some of the best batteries in the world and they are class leaders for batteries and capacitors....   Toyota doesn’t even use Lithium ion on some of there hybrids and mainly go for the Nickel Metal Hydrides, they also warranty that for 8 yrs and will increase the warranty to 10yrs if you do a 12mth maintenance check!     Nickel Metal Hydrides now are way different to those of yesteryear where after a full charge will lose 50% in 24hours,  Nickel Metal Hydrides can sustain around 80% charge in 5 years....  very different to when they 1st came out....  if you don’t believe me have a look at the Panasonic eneloops  that come standard in typical Battery sizes...  These are cost effective environmentally friendly batteries that I know works....  They are well used in professional photography and I have them all around the house, never buy a AA or AAA battery again.

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1 hour ago, aussievintage said:

Another factor is reliability. 

 

I am reminded of this as yesterday my Lithium battery pack for my drill - only used a half dozen times, completely failed.  The charger attempts to charge it, the gives an error saying the battery is faulty.  This is a battery tech that's supposedly done and dusted, yet they still fail.   

 

I worry that a new super battery needs to prove itself in the field.  Rechargeable batteries that fail have been pissing off consumers for decades.

Any technology can fail, we've had wheels for thousands of years and still get punctures😀

Presumably, it's still under warranty

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2 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

Any technology can fail, we've had wheels for thousands of years and still get punctures😀

Presumably, it's still under warranty

I’m told that’s not a technology issue but a driver issue,  a Toyota rep said to me; who gets punctures these days, must be the driver not looking where those nails are!   🙄

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On 11/01/2020 at 7:02 AM, MrC said:

Will six times the energy storage translate into the distance we can currently drive on a tankful of petrol?  If it does then it could be a game changer .... 

Yes.

 

And currently they already do..

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On 11/01/2020 at 9:32 AM, MrC said:

<snips>Will six times the energy storage translate into the distance we can currently drive

Or the same range with one-sixth the weight and size? That would sure go a long way to decreasing the environmental impact of EVs gross vehicle weight.

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19 minutes ago, caminperth said:

Yes.

 

And currently they already do..

 

Ok ... sign me up.

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30 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

Or the same range with one-sixth the weight and size? That would sure go a long way to decreasing the environmental impact of EVs gross vehicle weight.

yep very interested in the prospect... I wonder if cost will be 1/6th as well. this could be a  VERY significant step forward for EVs. as weight, size and cost currently is a significant impost. am also thinking the performance impact ...one sixth the weight... just add lightness as colin chapman said :D 

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2 hours ago, GregWormald said:

Or the same range with one-sixth the weight and size? That would sure go a long way to decreasing the environmental impact of EVs gross vehicle weight.

This. Everyone thinks they need heaps of range as they don’t understand that standard power points will work just fine for most normal communing of 30-70km per day. 
 

Also imagine how fast they would be!

 

1 hour ago, MrC said:

 

Ok ... sign me up.

Second hand model S’s should be reaching close to affordable levels this year..

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On 12/01/2020 at 1:49 PM, caminperth said:

This. Everyone thinks they need heaps of range as they don’t understand that standard power points will work just fine for most normal communing of 30-70km per day. 
 

Also imagine how fast they would be!

 

Second hand model S’s should be reaching close to affordable levels this year..

Unless you need the hatch you might be better off waiting a couple of years and buying a second hand 3 when people start trading them for the new Y.  The S is a very big car for a commute and less efficient.  
 

I am sure there will be better new batteries in the future but the average household has 1.7 cars and most of those second cars would be for work, school, local trips. That is where a 30kWh or less second car could be the ideal 2020 EV use case. A 64kWh Kona starts from $59,990, and a 44kWh MG is $46,500 drive away, so a more modest 30kWh version could be $35k.  You can buy second hand at that price today but cars are not common enough for lots of people to take the plunge.

 

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On 11/01/2020 at 9:38 AM, aussievintage said:

Another factor is reliability. 

 

I am reminded of this as yesterday my Lithium battery pack for my drill - only used a half dozen times, completely failed.  The charger attempts to charge it, the gives an error saying the battery is faulty.  This is a battery tech that's supposedly done and dusted, yet they still fail.   

 

I worry that a new super battery needs to prove itself in the field.  Rechargeable batteries that fail have been pissing off consumers for decades.

I bought a Ryobi 36v trimmer and the charger or battery **** itself on the third charge. I exchanged it for an (albeit more expensive) Makita 36v job and use the 18v for a variety of needs. I think you get what you pay for. That said Ive had more good stories than bad with lithium batteries.

On 11/01/2020 at 10:20 AM, Addicted to music said:

I’ve never had battery issues with the Makita stuff I have bought, however I consider myself very lucky....    the 1st ever Makita drill was a 9.6v Nicad, remember those?  

Yes. I inherited two from my old man. Dont use them now but I used to.

On 11/01/2020 at 10:20 AM, Addicted to music said:

 

..  if you don’t believe me have a look at the Panasonic eneloops  that come standard in typical Battery sizes...  These are cost effective environmentally friendly batteries that I know works....  They are well used in professional photography and I have them all around the house, never buy a AA or AAA battery again.

I basically use these for all AA and AAA requirement.

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seems the next gen of the popular toyota / subaru 86/brz is to go with turbo power, I though posibility of some sort of hybrid / hyper version. or maybe even shot range electric, 

 

https://www.caradvice.com.au/819107/next-generation-toyota-86-and-subaru-brz-to-get-turbocharged-power-report/

 

but as they say 

 

"Don’t expect a hybrid version though, at least not yet. While hybrids are continuing to proliferate throughout the  Toyota range, the company believes its current-generation hybrid system is too heavy for performance vehicles."

 

and electric is too heavy for moment... but if lighter is possible in future it leaves door open...

 

"Said Naohiko Sato, chief engineer of the GR Yaris, “Right now, if we chose an electrified powertrain for a sports car, it would be heavier".

“We decided it’s not the right way to go right now. Maybe when the technology gets better and we have new technology allowing lighter powertrains, it could be good.”"

 

the opportunity certainly exists for a small light electric and affordable coupe ....as filled by petrol only 86 / brz at moment or say mazda mx5 convertible.... all in good time i am sure... maybe the one sixth sized battery when it is a reality...

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16 hours ago, betty boop said:

<snip> the opportunity certainly exists for a small light electric and affordable coupe ....as filled by petrol only 86 / brz at moment or say mazda mx5 convertible.... all in good time i am sure... maybe the one sixth sized battery when it is a reality...

Yes, weight is really important in sports cars. Duh!

That's how Porsche gets the performance--aluminium panels etc.

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The days of fire breathing smoke spewing everyday vehicles is over.  People need to get a grip.

 

My house is burnt down and I can't breath the throat tearing 'air' and here's someone shopping in a 'Black' edition Jeep 6.4Ltr thing at Woolies !

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3 hours ago, eman said:

'Black' edition Jeep 6.4Ltr thing

Most of these tanks are used for shopping and picking the kids up from school.

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There is a "battery breakthrough" news story about once every week these days. I wouldn't pay too much attention to them since most will lead nowhere and even if they do, it will take forever to get into production. For the time being the real gains will be the continual small incremental improvements Tesla and others have been making till now in cost, efficiency, size/density, and longevity. It's also wrong to compare the lithium battery longevity of a braindead wireless hand tool with the insanely complex battery management system in a modern EV. The latest ones are good for hundreds of thousands of kilometres. The guy who drove 1 million kilometres in his model S has changed his battery pack but the latest one he's on has done 500,000km.

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1 hour ago, Hazzzy said:

Most of these tanks are used for shopping and picking the kids up from school.

I know.

They need their heads banged together. Just send the bloody electric robot car.

 

Was thinking it might wake them up if *their* house got burnt down..... but probably not.

 

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5 hours ago, eman said:

The days of fire breathing smoke spewing everyday vehicles is over.  People need to get a grip.

 

My house is burnt down and I can't breath the throat tearing 'air' and here's someone shopping in a 'Black' edition Jeep 6.4Ltr thing at Woolies !

Very sorry to hear about your current circumstances.  We are a bit isolated from it all in Brisbane, although we will start noticing the impact soon in Woolies etc as the cost of these events reminds us of our link to our regions/country areas.

 

On the hybrid Toyota sports car topic; people have to demand the product. Toyota does not exist for the betterment of man kind.  Performance car people who think it is ok to remove the pollution gear from cars are out there ( and some are on here) and it’s part of the car culture .....for some.  What is annoying is Toyota saying it is not compatible.  What is KERs or ERS in F1 Mr Toyota.  
 

A Prius in 2009 weighed 1320kgs and now weighs 1390kg.  A 86 weighs 1250 to 1300kg. So a Hybrid does not have to bring an unacceptable weight penalty depending on your design brief.  It’s also possible to make a EV fun.

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No one wanting a Toyota 86 wants a flipping Prius. If they wanted a Prius they’d buy one !  Toyota are not only ones saying they aren’t there yet in the light sports electric car (that’s affordable). Vw have said same re their golf R which I’ve quoted man behind the golf R. In time both Toyota and Vw are saying they will. And am sure they’ll get there. We just aren’t there yet. If we were we’d be there :lol: 

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2 hours ago, betty boop said:

No one wanting a Toyota 86 wants a flipping Prius. If they wanted a Prius they’d buy one !  Toyota are not only ones saying they aren’t there yet in the light sports electric car (that’s affordable). Vw have said same re their golf R which I’ve quoted man behind the golf R. In time both Toyota and Vw are saying they will. And am sure they’ll get there. We just aren’t there yet. If we were we’d be there :lol: 

No, wrong.  There is nothing about EVs inherently, but the 86 lives in the world of vehicle tuners and Toyota wanted to sell the Prius to greenies....who now raid their piggy banks for a Tesla or Kona EV.

If the 86 was enhanced with an electric motor of the front to improve performance that would make a very interesting beast.  Think along the lines of the 308 hybrid (that I once got so excited about .....years ago now.  0- 60 was “under 4 seconds”....Model 3 does it in about 3.2). 

 

 

Edited by Briz Vegas

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Tesla 3 ? Kona ev ?

 

um no these are not a Toyota 86 or what all about.

 

the 308 hybrid ain’t it either. Doesn’t matter how excited get about it. Owned enough French cars myself. I can see where Toyota is coming from. I’ll leave it there, appreciate if don’t get what they say and feel folk should just buy a Kona ev or Tesla instead.

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https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mazda-favours-smaller-batteries-upcoming-evs

 

Interesting article why Mazda favours smaller battery for upcoming EVs....

 

“Mazda says it will never build a ‘big-battery’ electric car, because it believes such vehicles are less environmentally friendly than even conventional diesel-powered models, judged over a whole energy life cycle.

 

Speaking in Portugal at a prototype test drive of the upcoming MX-30electric car, Joachim Kunz, head of product development and engineering at Mazda Europe, said the firm has studied the CO2 emissions of building a vehicle “from extraction to disposal”.”

 

suspect this not “never” :D more current state ... can never say never about these things ....

 

not it to say their shorter range won’t have place ... as with Honda’s short range ev clearly playing to the city car space :)

 

 

 

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All I can say to mazda is "bollocks." Never is a long time; in this case it will only be as long as it takes for the public opinion and marketing to change its mind.

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8 hours ago, betty boop said:

such vehicles are less environmentally friendly than even conventional diesel-powered models, judged over a whole energy life cycle.

I keep hearing this about all sorts of supposedly green tech.  such as solar power generation as well

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51 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

I keep hearing this about all sorts of supposedly green tech.  such as solar power generation as well

Remember carbon footprint ?

 

i worked for a huge global giant and we were working on carbon neutral product, decided in end not make the claims as its all very dubious and non exact ... still ... the product still on market and very successfull in its own right ...no mention of carbon to be seen. Wiki not always great source but spot on below...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint

 

“In most cases, the total carbon footprint cannot be calculated exactly because of inadequate knowledge of and data about the complex interactions between contributing processes, including the influence of natural processes that store or release carbon dioxide. For this reason, Wright, Kemp, and Williams proposed the following definition of a carbon footprint”

 

anyways like bmw has done, glad Mazda are also considering full life cycle, they looking at environmental impact by looks and across full “energy” life cycle.... no carbon mentioned :D

 

 

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12 minutes ago, betty boop said:

Remember carbon footprint ?

 

Yes.  Of course you might be poisoning the environment with heavy metals and still be low carbon.

 

12 minutes ago, betty boop said:

anyways like bmw has done, glad Mazda are also considering full life cycle, they looking at environmental impact by looks and across full “energy” life cycle.... no carbon mentioned :D

 

I do prefer that way of looking at it.  

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