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What if I am elderly and only drive on local streets to go to the RSL or Woolworths. They would already pay rates.  An old Leaf would be a perfect cheap to run car for the elderly.

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My EV journey has begun.  Picked up “Zephyr” last night at 6.30pm ( along with 5 other people getting their EV  at the same time). It’s my second car where I looked at the number plate and realised Qu

Now now there's no need for that. My smug look is because I can drag you off.

12 months plus of Tesla ownership after waiting a decade plus to own a truely practical EV.  How do I sum it up in one picture ....and I am not great with a camera.   ( photo: looking back from my dri

12 hours ago, Steam said:

How to help stall take up of electric cars.  Madness...

 

SA to Tax electric cars

 

How long before the other states see the $$$ and make the grab.  

 

Nightmare to implement so silly idea but so is fuel excise with some of it funding spending on roads.

 

The argument for both of course would be that the people using the roads are paying for them.

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On 07/11/2020 at 8:59 PM, proftournesol said:

Tesla's less obvious advantage is it's vertical integration, it means that they are in control of their own battery development and production, a very large advantage when it comes to integrating new technology. You can see the difference between the Model S, built from off the shelf pats largely, bought in from outside contractors in the traditional way, and the 3 and Y, both in their more sophisticated design and production, and integration. It's hard to do this with traditional procurement and supply lines

I thought Tesla bought their batteries from Panasonic

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1 hour ago, RockandorRoll said:

I thought Tesla bought their batteries from Panasonic

Some. There's a Panasonic battery plant integrated into the Nevada Gigafactory. Chinese made Tesla's use Chinese made batteries, and Tesla have bought American battery manufacturer Maxwell and are planning on building their own 3rd generation batteries, that'll increase the vertical integration.

Tesla Powerwalls and the industrial Powerpacks use a variety of manufacturers.

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18 minutes ago, Briz Vegas said:

Anyone tried the MG ZS yet? Its the $40k RRP EV we have needed for a while. Pano roof as standard, one spec.  We get a pretty decent deal I think.

 

Have to wonder what shortcuts the Chinese maker has taken and how long they will last.

I won't be rushing to get one.

 

We do need something that's not twice the ICE price.

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On 16/11/2020 at 6:54 AM, eman said:

Have to wonder what shortcuts the Chinese maker has taken and how long they will last.

I won't be rushing to get one.

 

We do need something that's not twice the ICE price.

Mazda CX-5 MAXX sport ICE $41,240.  MG is close enough to be a rival and it’s cheaper to buy and much cheaper to run. Does the same school run, looks similar, carries pretty much the same amount of junk, same SUV styling and it has a massive pano roof.  
 

Ah! you say, Mazda is all wheel drive.  I have an all wheel drive car. It’s done nothing of value. Give me a fancy interior/roof and no silly engine grumblings any day over 4wd.

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13 minutes ago, Briz Vegas said:

MG is close enough to be a rival and it’s cheaper to buy and much cheaper to run

 

Depends on one's definition of close enough.

 

It may well be cheaper to buy but one gets what one pays for and you wouldn't want to be trying to trade or sell an MG in 5 years time, whatever engine it had.

 

I will wait until Mazda releases their own EV.

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MG reminds me of my first sexual adventure.

No idea but if they keep poking around they might just crack something.

 

This is the company that only sold THREE cars on their first outing.

The rest were sitting in a warehouse on Parramatta Road.................then suddenly disappeared.....................to the crusher, I suspect.

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On 20/11/2020 at 6:14 PM, rantan said:

 

Depends on one's definition of close enough.

 

It may well be cheaper to buy but one gets what one pays for and you wouldn't want to be trying to trade or sell an MG in 5 years time, whatever engine it had.

 

I will wait until Mazda releases their own EV.

They have, and they can keep it.  .......ok, it’s not completely awful because Mazda know how to make a car, but it has many of the same drawbacks the Nissan Leaf had 7 years ago.  It’s just not a good EV.  For example, you can’t claim you used a small battery to save weight when the car is a heifer despite its modest battery.  Mazda know how to light weight, they just didn’t invest in the design.  For example, the overly long bonnet weighs a ton.  The bonnet on my Tesla weighs next to nothing.

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No comments on the EV tax? I guess if you don’t own one and you think they are the devils work then you will not care.

 

Does this put potential EV purchasers  off, or is it just me that thinks this isn’t fair...at this point in time.  I take the total tax bill approach,  I paid thousands in GST and luxury car tax.  My Tesla is bespoke thanks to being new technology and has a fancy roof but it’s not really luxury.  A BMW at the same price will have leather and almost everyone says they feel more premium if you ignore the engine bit. I think I have contributed my fair share to consolidated revenue.  Now someone wants me to pay $300 or $400 more every year.  I can find that money but it’s harder for me to say that fuel is much cheaper, just like I can’t say EVs are silent (in a motor drone sense) because of overseas noise maker requirements. 
 

I am in Queensland but I can see the writing is on the wall and I think it’s just another niggle that will put buyers off.

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They haven't indicated when it'll happen or how they could possibly implement it bit it'll pull the rug out of EV sales, especially in rural Australia. I have no problem with paying for road use but the problem is that fuel excise has been falling for 20 years as cars have become more fuel efficient. Implementation should be a part of overall reform of road and registration funding. It's a chance to incorporate a congestion charge, time of day charging and can then provide a price signal that doesn't disadvantage EV adoption at this stage. Every country that has taxed EVs at this early adoption stage has seen prices fall.

Personally, this'll cost me $2,000 a year

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16 hours ago, proftournesol said:

<emphasis added>They haven't indicated when it'll happen or how they could possibly implement it bit it'll pull the rug out of EV sales, especially in rural Australia. I have no problem with paying for road use but the problem is that fuel excise has been falling for 20 years as cars have become more fuel efficient. Implementation should be a part of overall reform of road and registration funding. It's a chance to incorporate a congestion charge, time of day charging and can then provide a price signal that doesn't disadvantage EV adoption at this stage. Every country that has taxed EVs at this early adoption stage has seen prices fall.

Personally, this'll cost me $2,000 a year

This is exactly what is needed (although unlikely as we're still paying to sustain our motor vehicle industry), but I thought political discussion was prohibited.:lol:

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6 hours ago, GregWormald said:

This is exactly what is needed (although unlikely as we're still paying to sustain our motor vehicle industry), but I thought political discussion was prohibited.:lol:

 

We don't have a motor vehicle industry.

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On 27/11/2020 at 10:48 PM, Briz Vegas said:

No comments on the EV tax? I guess if you don’t own one and you think they are the devils work then you will not care.

 

Does this put potential EV purchasers  off, or is it just me that thinks this isn’t fair...at this point in time.  I take the total tax bill approach,  I paid thousands in GST and luxury car tax.  My Tesla is bespoke thanks to being new technology and has a fancy roof but it’s not really luxury.  A BMW at the same price will have leather and almost everyone says they feel more premium if you ignore the engine bit. I think I have contributed my fair share to consolidated revenue.  Now someone wants me to pay $300 or $400 more every year.  I can find that money but it’s harder for me to say that fuel is much cheaper, just like I can’t say EVs are silent (in a motor drone sense) because of overseas noise maker requirements. 
 

I am in Queensland but I can see the writing is on the wall and I think it’s just another niggle that will put buyers off.

 

I didn't bother mentioning it as it kinda feels like shouting against the sea..

 

I've written to my local MP here in WA and reached out to other Greens MPs and EV organisations such as the Tesla WA club to see what else I can do. In short, a pretty average approach by what seems uneducated govt who would rather go with the lobby groups and invest in a "hydrogen solution" which doesn't exist. 

 

Either way, at the start this tax will bring in bugger all compared to what it costs to implement.

 

I thought I'd done my fair share so far - in the last 2 months purchasing a 3 and an X has cost me over 60k in taxes! (In after tax dollars of course!) Ah well, looks like I will be doing more soon..

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On 28/11/2020 at 12:48 AM, Briz Vegas said:

No comments on the EV tax?

 

I haven't been following it, but I assume it's got something to do with replacing fuel excise?   I would predict that the fallout from covid, and now this blow-up with China, will see all sorts of major changes to how we tax and promote or prop up our economy, aiming to be self-sufficient.  It may well have fall out in the energy sector, falling coal sales, swing towards renewables etc.   I am expecting interesting times ahead, and we will all suffer from the hip pocket in various ways.

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41 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

The revenue from fuel excise has been falling for 20 years, well before mass sales of EVs in Australia

 

Sounds like a good excuse to put it up again in form or another :) 

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My state MP says no plans for a EV tax in Queensland. Too early but a road tax at some point is inevitable due to falling excise.

 

I'm happy with that. EVs will not take off here properly until battery prices hit that magic $100 kWh. At that point it will be time for EV buyers to pay their fair share.

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I have been to a few motorway services in the UK and the busy ones in summer were pretty....very unpleasant to be honest.  Worlds worst loos, overcrowded, wall to wall fast food. I would not choose to stop there if I had any choice.
 

I can’t help think this early EV alternative is a bit rose tinted compared to a future reality inhabited by the “great unwashed” ( EV drivers can be oinks as well, by comparison Aussie country servos mostly seem to do their communities proud), but at least for now this new UK infrastructure is interesting and impressive.  As they say, it’s a far cry from a lone ....possibly broken 50kW charger under a single neon light isolated at the back of a supermarket car park, usually to avoid selfish or just unthinking diesel/petrol drivers from blocking it while they do a “ quick” shop. 

 

 

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Follow up on the EV forecourt / motorway services. Seems it does  work just fine when put to the acid test ( full capacity).  The video below does contain some people being possibly overly optimistic about the future and what they have achieved, but at the same time I don’t want to rain in their parade.  Lots of beards I notice 🙂 Nice start, lots more work to do.  

 

 

 (Should not be negative but I have not had a good day with humanity after watching someone in a Lexus casually run over an admittedly dumb bird on a local street for no good reason, Almost saw something similar happen to a cat on my morning walk but that animal was quicker off the mark.. Frankly, there are wonderful people in the world that are full of empathy and always happy to put themselves out ....... and then there are the other sort.  It’s a low speed environment, zero excuses.  It’s the little things that people do that makes society worth living in)

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1 hour ago, Briz Vegas said:

... I have not had a good day with humanity after watching someone in a Lexus casually run over an admittedly dumb bird on a local street for no good reason, Almost saw something similar happen to a cat on my morning walk but that animal was quicker off the mark.

and you just know that they'll treat people the same way.:sad:

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36 minutes ago, Bronal said:

Excuse the daft question, but what is the future for diesel-powered trucks and other heavy vehicles?

 

I’d say as battery technology and electric motor output increases over time all these heavy vehicles will be replaced EV, not as fast as other light vehicles but it will happen.

 

JDH
 

 

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They've been saying that for years but only the odd, really expensive one has materialised and then disappeared.

 

Initially, it will be a dump and run and instead of swapping trailers, they'll be swapping prime movers at a place like this.

 

https://www.logicwodonga.com.au

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2020 is drawing to a close and on the EV front this was predicted to be a breakout year. I think it has been, although in Australia the new players are only just starting to arrive. I thought I briefly saw a Taycan in traffic today based on the DRLs but my camera reveals is was a 911 turbo S. Nice, but ......  
 

Harry’s garage reviewed the ‘ game changing’ VW ID3 this week and once again  he seems to not understand EVs, and he drives a Jaguar I-Pace.  Harry complains about the ID3 ( mid sized battery) having a 288km real world range on a 1. cold 2.wet 3. highway road trip when the WLTP range is 400km.  WLTP is a lab based test for mixed driving.  It’s a comparison tool.  Personally I always look at battery percentage, not estimated range which, to be frank, is for dummies.

 

 

For me 288 km in worst case conditions is plenty, but I am spoilt. Last week I once again got 500km plus range thanks to pre-Christmas highway traffic and 32 degree heat ( 132wh/km and my battery is 25% bigger than the VW first edition). 


I think the big news for us this year was more highway chargers and the MG at $44k drive away for a solid quality product with lots of toys inside. China is on the nose at the moment unfortunately, but that is a government to government thing.  I can’t help but think that 2021 will see things move forward again, even if it’s just 3000 odd MG EVs on our roads.

CE2D596E-3EF8-4E9F-BF4D-B15932C04951.jpeg

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9 hours ago, Briz Vegas said:

I can’t help but think that 2021 will see things move forward again

 

A bit more help from our Federal Government would be good.

 

They don't seem to mind giving money to the oil companies .

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On 16/12/2020 at 8:44 AM, ArthurDent said:

 

A bit more help from our Federal Government would be good.

 

They don't seem to mind giving money to the oil companies .

I agree that Federal incentives would be good. Unfortunately, a leaked discussion paper reported by ABC indicates there is no reason to get our hopes up. Well worth a read: Australia's electric car strategy only doing 'the bare minimum', expert says of leaked draft

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On 15/12/2020 at 10:37 PM, Briz Vegas said:

 

Harry’s garage reviewed the ‘ game changing’ VW ID3 this week and once again  he seems to not understand EVs, and he drives a Jaguar I-Pace.  Harry complains about the ID3 ( mid sized battery) having a 288km real world range on a 1. cold 2.wet 3. highway road trip when the WLTP range is 400km.  WLTP is a lab based test for mixed driving.  It’s a comparison tool.  Personally I always look at battery percentage, not estimated range which, to be frank, is for dummies.

 

 

So what you're saying is don't get an electric vehicle if you drive on the highway, and it's cold and/or wet where you live?

 

Gotcha.

 

Economy figures for petrol engines can be matched, if electric vehicles can't get anywhere close to what they are advertised at, isn't that false advertising?

 

 

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6 hours ago, Monk said:

 

So what you're saying is don't get an electric vehicle if you drive on the highway, and it's cold and/or wet where you live?

 

Gotcha.

 

Economy figures for petrol engines can be matched, if electric vehicles can't get anywhere close to what they are advertised at, isn't that false advertising?

 

 

 

 

Exactly the same for solar arrays.

You buy a 6.5kw system and hope you get 5.0kw.....................maybe.

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2 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

 

 

Exactly the same for solar arrays.

You buy a 6.5kw system and hope you get 5.0kw.....................maybe.

Not true. We have a 6kW array and can get 6.5kW on occasion. Just depends on the sun angle (in Melbourne).

 

P.S. I'm all for a km based tax on cars. Based on weight only and not on fuel used. If it's used to pay for road use, then why not do it properly? Then those things that cause most of the road damage (large trucks) can pay for it...there was a big problem with one of the lanes on the Monash yesterday, where obviously, large trucks have been warping the tarmac.

 

Anyway, the tax could be on a log scale, based on weight of the vehicle (i.e small motorcycle = .2c/km, large one = .4c/km, small car = .8c/km, Tesla S/Mercedes C = 1.2c/km, 50 tonne semi = 4c/km). Trucks have to fill out a log book anyway, so you'd be able to use the weight of each trip to calculate the tax payable. And you wouldn't have to reduce the petrol excise either, as that would simply cause people to want to use less. And it would be across the board, so the implementation would be far more cost effective.

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15 hours ago, Monk said:

 

So what you're saying is don't get an electric vehicle if you drive on the highway, and it's cold and/or wet where you live?

 

Gotcha.

 

Economy figures for petrol engines can be matched, if electric vehicles can't get anywhere close to what they are advertised at, isn't that false advertising?

 

 

You didn’t read my post did you.  All you did was apply your own confirmation bias.

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10 hours ago, Cloth Ears said:

Not true. We have a 6kW array and can get 6.5kW on occasion. Just depends on the sun angle (in Melbourne).

 

P.S. I'm all for a km based tax on cars. Based on weight only and not on fuel used. If it's used to pay for road use, then why not do it properly? Then those things that cause most of the road damage (large trucks) can pay for it...there was a big problem with one of the lanes on the Monash yesterday, where obviously, large trucks have been warping the tarmac.

 

Anyway, the tax could be on a log scale, based on weight of the vehicle (i.e small motorcycle = .2c/km, large one = .4c/km, small car = .8c/km, Tesla S/Mercedes C = 1.2c/km, 50 tonne semi = 4c/km). Trucks have to fill out a log book anyway, so you'd be able to use the weight of each trip to calculate the tax payable. And you wouldn't have to reduce the petrol excise either, as that would simply cause people to want to use less. And it would be across the board, so the implementation would be far more cost effective.

 

 

And the state you live in, plus the connector!

 

https://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/solar-system-size-limits-by-network

 

I'm in NSW..............we have limits on a lot of things.

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On 18/12/2020 at 1:50 PM, Briz Vegas said:

You didn’t read my post did you.  All you did was apply your own confirmation bias.

 

The first and last paragraphs had nothing to do with the paragraph I quoted. 

 

I'm not sure about the third paragraph, I only really read random pages of this thread, so don't know what car you have, but you seem to be alluding to that you an ID3?  Although with a larger battery.  So I have no idea how that compares to what Harry drove, but again you seem to be saying you got a longer range with a bigger battery when it was hot.

 

So yeah, I don't know man, the fact you implied Harry was a dummy because he looked at the estimated range or something just rubbed me the wrong way, but can you point out my confirmation bias please?

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On 18/12/2020 at 9:02 AM, Cloth Ears said:

 

P.S. I'm all for a km based tax on cars. Based on weight only and not on fuel used. If it's used to pay for road use, then why not do it properly? Then those things that cause most of the road damage (large trucks) can pay for it...there was a big problem with one of the lanes on the Monash yesterday, where obviously, large trucks have been warping the tarmac.

 

Fuel excise doesn't pay for road use, it goes into Federal general revenue and is returned to the States general revenue. The new tax also won't be used for road repair or construction either. In any case, I pay 10% tax on every kW I draw from the grid already so the State Governments are proposing a tax to draw the energy as well as additional tax to use the energy. No matter, it'll kill EV sales for a few years, almost no money will be raised, not even $1 million in South Australia, that'll barely pay for a footpath. It's all about setting a precedent now whilst there's little political fallout, but it's the best chance to get this charge right, this is not the way to go about it

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