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6 minutes ago, eman said:

So that makes electric VW  ID quoted earlier at 40k GBP only about $70k AU?

 

What a bargain !

(What a racking joke).

 

as i posted earlier will be somewhere about there ... around $67k possibly... and yeah for what its s ...thats a bit out rageous... keeping in mind in uk they do get cash backs and such..to ease the pain... but so are joys of the early adopter if wanting to live on the bleeding edge ... makes the little mini electric look like a bargain... though its priced about twice what likely should be ! for type car it is as well... :D

 

 

3 hours ago, betty boop said:

Don’t think that much... cheapest Tesla in Vic is $74k on road ...

 

mini electric is 60k on road ...

 

so if prices in between like in uk makes Vw id3 at $67k ???

 

which is still crazy as been able to pick up a optioned gti or base golf R for $50k!

 

prices going up for everything I guess... especially new models even Tesla 3 took price hike of $6k and that’s before on roads :)

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My EV journey has begun.  Picked up “Zephyr” last night at 6.30pm ( along with 5 other people getting their EV  at the same time). It’s my second car where I looked at the number plate and realised Qu

Now now there's no need for that. My smug look is because I can drag you off.

12 months plus of Tesla ownership after waiting a decade plus to own a truely practical EV.  How do I sum it up in one picture ....and I am not great with a camera.   ( photo: looking back from my dri

25 minutes ago, eman said:

So that makes electric VW  ID quoted earlier at 40k GBP only about $70k AU?

 

What a bargain !

(What a racking joke).

 

You've  obviously missed the point of my post.

 

I'll simplify it for you.

 

UK pricing for VW cars bears no relation at all to what they cost here.

 

Edited by ArthurDent
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23 hours ago, eman said:

Frankly haven't been thrilled by any vehicles out of China. Won't be rushing to get a first gen one of those.

Most but not all Volvos are made in China. China doesn't need to mean crap.

 

Coming from a cycling background well over 90% of carbon fibre frames and components have always been made in China (or Taiwan), but that is where the expertise is. Sure there are budget or no name branded frames coming from China too, but I would avoid them like the plague.

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29 minutes ago, betty boop said:

as i posted earlier will be somewhere about there ... around $67k possibly... and yeah for what its s ...thats a bit out rageous

Early adopters (yes I'm looking at you @betty boop with your AV gear :thumb:) are always forced to lube up and bend over to get the latest and greatest. Then prices plummet as the tech matures. My first DVD player cost $1400 back around 1997. What would that be in today's $$$ and it is worth nothing.

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39 minutes ago, blybo said:

Early adopters (yes I'm looking at you @betty boop with your AV gear :thumb:) are always forced to lube up and bend over to get the latest and greatest. Then prices plummet as the tech matures. My first DVD player cost $1400 back around 1997. What would that be in today's $$$ and it is worth nothing.

oh yeah ive paid a small fortune over years with hifi and av gear... DVD player...blu-ray...uhd... though am not so sure we are seeing much price drop anymore in the AV ...look how much my marantz processor replacement has gone upto its current replacement a $8k thing now days which is crazy !  :D uhd players havent come down at all either in 5 years... quality still costs ...or prices of everything is just going up and up ! crazy ! 

 

definitely still agree pay a price for latest greatest... and yeah draw line at cars :D not paying 2x plus on something like that for privilege especially when potentially $50-$100k items ... am in for long run so can happily own my current car another 8 years with very low continued cost of ownership ... so happy to keep doing that while electric cars sort self out.. we will have 1st gen likely 2nd gen in that time from some makers.... given model runs usually 4 years or so...some brands only do new models every 7-8 years... we might replace our family car with something suitable in that time... but again wont be paying this early up for anything, maybe still in some years time...

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All valid points Betty, but for  me the time was right for an EV.  Still young enough to enjoy a nice car with performance pretensions but old enough to get affordable insurance, had. been waiting decades to get into a practical all purpose EV and finally had a no compromise option, had to pay through the nose for it but didn’t have to go into debt for it ( timing, timing, timing), got a “launch edition” spec bargain ( performance for long range price).

 

For my decision to make any sort of sense I need to still be driving it in 15 years time, but that’s entirely possible and I will officially be old at that point.  I also get to drive what I consider to be a future minor classic car from new. My only fear is long  term future support for all the tech, but honestly, if it all falls in a heap I am happy to have got in early enough to still be an early adopter.

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Looks like Mini e is an efficient little beast.  You get 160km range at 120km/hr and 235km at 90km/hr.  That is Ioniq/Model 3 ( benchmark) efficiency levels even at high speed. Given highway traffic in my area you would be lucky to average anywhere near 90km/hr on a trip up or down the coast. It’s still a bit compromised for  range but for the fun factor it could almost be forgiven.  NRMA in NSW are putting in a network of chargers at 150km intervals.  You would also need base mini 1  spec because the launch the addition is way too expensive for a 30kW usable battery.


I had a laugh at Bjorn’s space test.  The car is tiny but he has fun trying to make it work. I like the green on this car but maybe a white roof and white bonnet stripes to make it look feisty ( photo for illustration purposes only).

 

3E2A4899-4DDE-4BCB-A9BC-B6D98F638548.png

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hehe i like how he couldn't open the hood :D its a bmw silly... have to pull the hood release twice :D 

 

yeah you wouldn't be buying the mini for lugging banana boxes ! i see its now last on the list literally for space ! the egolf strangely not much better with only 2-3 boxes more in space ... strange....

 

the boot on the mini looks smaller than on the fiat 500 ! :D which is saying something... i see they have dispensed with even the spare wheel... talk about space saver lets dispense with that too to save space :D though its common kinda thing now days...

 

the range on the mini will be fine for city car I think.... and as chargers become more common should take folk further ... though am not sure folk be too keen to want to be stopping for a charge every 150km or so...

 

all will improve in time am sure ...battery density might mean even less weight/space for battery size ... or just increase in size a tad....

 

still think mini is it probably THE small electric car to buy on aussie market and be that ways for a while ... till Peugeot and like come along... if they do...

 

good on bmw to make it a local option this early in the piece....

 

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oh wow ! now this is interesting.... 

Electric Volvo P1800 could be the start of a retro revolution

https://www.caradvice.com.au/869055/electric-volvo-p1800-could-be-the-start-of-a-retro-revolution/

r04lrsg146ilswgwt5df.jpg
 

no tail pipes....

qpze2cytdtienf67eerx.jpg

 

could just be a birthday special...but gee love those classic P coupe's I wish they'd make a return ...though no doubt volvo will price them well out of reach just look at the electric polestar thats priced way past tesla 3 ! 

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and no surprise renault is locally axing its zoe electric car here...

 

Id say its a shame but really it's been a non event in a shopping trolley of a car that was selling at what was a silly price... it waste even available for public purchase at one point ! not sure even seen one on the road....

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/renault-say-it-s-here-to-stay-as-sales-halve-in-five-years-123981.html?

 

"The French car maker will streamline its range, axing the Clio city hatchback and Zoe electric car – and keep the Megane RS hot hatch as the only passenger-car options – and instead focus on the fastest growing segments of the market: SUVs and vans."

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11 hours ago, betty boop said:

and no surprise renault is locally axing its zoe electric car here...

 

Id say its a shame but really it's been a non event in a shopping trolley of a car that was selling at what was a silly price... it waste even available for public purchase at one point ! not sure even seen one on the road....

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/renault-say-it-s-here-to-stay-as-sales-halve-in-five-years-123981.html?

 

"The French car maker will streamline its range, axing the Clio city hatchback and Zoe electric car – and keep the Megane RS hot hatch as the only passenger-car options – and instead focus on the fastest growing segments of the market: SUVs and vans."

The problem with Zoe was a mix of half hearted support, the unfortunate nature of the Australian market and the slightly hobbled tech.  If Renault did a Suzuki Jimni EV type product there would be a niche that would pay the premium.  It would need fast charging and a unique selling feature like four wheel drive via dual motors, even if they were relatively tiny motors. You would probably need a 50 kW pack as well.
 

 I am starting to wonder about the MG ZS as well because it’s a me too two wheel drive soft roader with a discounted petrol brother. It’s fine for the UK market but Australian’s want something more outdoorsy. I little rock crawler, even with 250 highway km capability, might excite fisherman and women.  Offer accessories like a solar shade structure that can trickle charge your car or just run a tiny fridge via the traction battery while you are at your campsite.  It might rarely get used but people would pay the premium.

 

“Getting warmer” might be this.

 

Edited by Briz Vegas
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1 hour ago, Briz Vegas said:

The problem with Zoe was a mix of half hearted support, the unfortunate nature of the Australian market and the slightly hobbled tech.  If Renault did a Suzuki Jimni EV type product there would be a niche that would pay the premium.  It would need fast charging and a unique selling feature like four wheel drive via dual motors, even if they were relatively tiny motors. You would probably need a 50 kW pack as well.

Just reminder having a product isn’t enough ... though Renault Nissan scalded twice now a leaf they couldn’t sell and a Zoe that wouldn’t ! 

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one of best little driving cars out there the e208.... range is about only criticism it seems... also looks a really nice interior... and feels quite normal apparently and great in driving ! 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Briz Vegas said:

What can I say...

 

 

'They' will stick lights all over EVs when they're affordable.  It will be the 'newdoof'.

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19 hours ago, betty boop said:

 

one of best little driving cars out there the e208.... range is about only criticism it seems... also looks a really nice interior... and feels quite normal apparently and great in driving ! 

 

 

Want one.  I’m greedy. Wouldn’t mind an Alpine as well, but that’s not green, available as a manual, nor going to fit in my one car garage.  I was so glad when I found out that Tesla do a smallish steering wheel in the 3.  I loved the wheel in my 308 and the relaxed low position. The Zoe wheel  by comparison was like driving a bus.....relatively.
 

The curious thing about EVs is that smaller does not necessarily mean more frugal. The Mini E manages to do both but it’s in the ioniq/Model 3 class.  E208 is thirsty and does not make best use of its 50kWh. With Model 3 you get decent room for 4 or even 5 adults.  Even in my 308 I was apologising to my adult rear seat passengers. In a Model 3 you have to put up with them ogling the panno roof and the novelty of it all.  Space  is not a discussion point.  You can have your cake and eat it....but I still like small. Pugs.

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1 hour ago, Briz Vegas said:

Want one.  I’m greedy. Wouldn’t mind an Alpine as well, but that’s not green, available as a manual, nor going to fit in my one car garage.  I was so glad when I found out that Tesla do a smallish steering wheel in the 3.  I loved the wheel in my 308 and the relaxed low position. The Zoe wheel  by comparison was like driving a bus.....relatively.

I think i posted an article there will e-v-e-n-t-u-a-l-l-y be an alpine electric :D according head of renault ... but when that is goodness knows especially given way contracting in this market ! 

 

1 hour ago, Briz Vegas said:

The curious thing about EVs is that smaller does not necessarily mean more frugal. The Mini E manages to do both but it’s in the ioniq/Model 3 class.  E208 is thirsty and does not make best use of its 50kWh. With Model 3 you get decent room for 4 or even 5 adults.  Even in my 308 I was apologising to my adult rear seat passengers. In a Model 3 you have to put up with them ogling the panno roof and the novelty of it all.  Space  is not a discussion point.  You can have your cake and eat it....but I still like small. Pugs.

in the review it seems weather dependant as well...reviewer sayings its pretty carp in cold weather .... as for car size most cars not talking mini size but most can take 4 folk pretty easily...hence even for family car we are happy with our mazda 3 so large seating limo definitely not on my list :D 

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Regarding range impacts, I have not noticed this but in Queensland rain is rare until Late. Spring and that’s hailtime, not a risk I am wiling to take if I have a choice.

 

Now for some Chinese Norwegian techno. (with Dynaudio cameo).

Roads in the future, I can see it now.  Reminds me of a holiday to Asia.

 

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11 hours ago, Briz Vegas said:

Regarding range impacts, I have not noticed this but in Queensland rain is rare until Late. Spring and that’s hailtime, not a risk I am wiling to take if I have a choice.

hey briz, no dont expect you guys see what we do ....zero to sub zero overnight with pretty frosty days last couple :D . definitely still looks like 2 different approaches here.. mini ... small light, smaller battery pack for city run about.... vs Peugeot larger battery pack more to lug around for adding range....

 

I've found below re range and bmw mini with regards weather .... looks like highway as per review as well of the peugeot does hit range more ... though id say for an inner city car none of these are really i would suggest are a real issue...

 

https://ev-database.org/car/1163/Mini-Cooper-SE

 

Real Range between 130 - 280 km
City - Cold Weather 180 km
Highway - Cold Weather 130 km
Combined - Cold Weather 155 km

 

theres also mild weather ....

City - Mild Weather 280 kmHighway - Mild Weather 170 kmCombined - Mild Weather 215 km

 

and the clarification of conditions,

Indication of real-world range in several situations. Cold weather: 'worst-case' based on -10°C and use of heating. Mild weather: 'best-case' based on 23°C and no use of A/C. The actual range will depend on speed, style of driving, weather and route conditions.

 

Honda e by comparison ... errgh ! 

Honda eHonda e 15 km less range 30% slower acceleration 8% less energy efficient 27% slower fastcharging

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Peugeot had the VLV 50 mile electric car in 1942. I have ridden a bike faster (40 vs 36km/h....on the flat...ish, wind was probably behind me) but that was the tech almost 80 years ago. 

ED3145BD-084C-41A5-9769-1D8CEA827AEC.jpeg

Edited by Briz Vegas
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5 hours ago, betty boop said:

hey briz, no dont expect you guys see what we do ....zero to sub zero overnight with pretty frosty days last couple :D . definitely still looks like 2 different approaches here.. mini ... small light, smaller battery pack for city run about.... vs Peugeot larger battery pack more to lug around for adding range....

 

I've found below re range and bmw mini with regards weather .... looks like highway as per review as well of the peugeot does hit range more ... though id say for an inner city car none of these are really i would suggest are a real issue...

 

https://ev-database.org/car/1163/Mini-Cooper-SE

 

Real Range between 130 - 280 km
City - Cold Weather 180 km
Highway - Cold Weather 130 km
Combined - Cold Weather 155 km

 

theres also mild weather ....

City - Mild Weather 280 kmHighway - Mild Weather 170 kmCombined - Mild Weather 215 km

 

and the clarification of conditions,

Indication of real-world range in several situations. Cold weather: 'worst-case' based on -10°C and use of heating. Mild weather: 'best-case' based on 23°C and no use of A/C. The actual range will depend on speed, style of driving, weather and route conditions.

 

Honda e by comparison ... errgh ! 

Honda eHonda e 15 km less range 30% slower acceleration 8% less energy efficient 27% slower fastcharging

Those cold weather figures are seriously reductions.

Problematic for lots of Northern hemisphere markets I would have thought.

Not too much bother for much of Aust but I'm in Canberra these days.

 

EDIT.
Actually don't mind the Honda e. Reflects the early Civics I think.

Is that another EV we won't be seeing here ?

Edited by eman
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On 28/07/2020 at 6:42 PM, betty boop said:

just look at the electric polestar thats priced way past tesla 3 ! 

I think it measures up okay with the performance 3 on price, and no doubt better put together and MUCH nicer interior. I prefer the looks personally and am probably biased as I've been so impressed with the day to day living with my Volvo interior which shares a fair bit of DNA with the Polestar. The Polestar 2 will be high on our short list as replacement for the wife's S3. We like cars with stiff suspension, that seems to be the only criticism of the Polestar by reviewers so far.

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1 minute ago, blybo said:

I think it measures up okay with the performance 3 on price, and no doubt better put together and MUCH nicer interior. I prefer the looks personally and am probably biased as I've been so impressed with the day to day living with my Volvo interior which shares a fair bit of DNA with the Polestar. The Polestar 2 will be high on our short list as replacement for the wife's S3. We like cars with stiff suspension, that seems to be the only criticism of the Polestar by reviewers so far.

am sure it does measure up well, bu that was my point, we have no interest in spending ~100k on a family car :D 

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On 07/08/2020 at 5:34 AM, Briz Vegas said:

The EV for people that think they don’t want an EV?

Oh I'd have 1 if price was reasonable. Would solve my towing issues and be a great weekend warrior 4WD/camping weapon. I hope in 15 years or so when I'm ready to do my big lap we'll have sufficient battery density and charging infrastructure to make something like a Rivian viable. I wonder how long it will be till technology lets somebody produces a solar roll up tarp

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30 minutes ago, betty boop said:

am sure it does measure up well, bu that was my point, we have no interest in spending ~100k on a family car :D 

If anything like Volvo, RRP has little in common with driveaway price. I saved around 20% and got a 1.9% finance deal. Made it significantly cheaper to own than my SS Commodore despite $8k higher purchase price

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6 minutes ago, blybo said:

If anything like Volvo, RRP has little in common with driveaway price. I saved around 20% and got a 1.9% finance deal. Made it significantly cheaper to own than my SS Commodore despite $8k higher purchase price

oh yeah am sure dealer rrp is long ways from what actually pay, no different in the brands eg bmw audi vW and such. no one pays rrp. but that might only bring price on par with tesla (where everyone pays rrp) but can't see it dropping much even its its 20% off a upwards of $100k price its still not remotely in realm of family car for us... we look at in the 30-40k there-abouts :) like our mazda 3 sp25 that cost us $30k ...different market segment thats all.

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7 minutes ago, betty boop said:

we look at in the 30-40k there-abouts :) like our mazda 3 sp25 that cost us $30k ...different market segment thats all.

different strokes for different folks. Just like your M140 is way more than 40k. My wife is also running a business so gets tax concessions

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1 hour ago, blybo said:

Og I'd have 1 if price was reasonable. Would solve my towing issues and be a great weekend warrior 4WD/camping weapon. I hope in 15 years or so when I'm ready to do my big lap we'll have sufficient battery density and charging infrastructure to make something like a Rivian viable. I wonder how long it will be till technology lets somebody produces a solar roll up tarp

FYI, there's already a round Australia EV charging route, all 3 phase, it was organised by the AEVA and the first EV lap was completed by a 70 year old lady from Mt Isa in a Model S, so you could do it tomorrow, it may not take you where you exactly want to go, but I'm sure that there are now more charging options that when it was announced 3 years ago.

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30 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

so you could do it tomorrow,

towing a 3.5 tonne van? What is technically achievable and what is viable are 2 very different things. Now that does not mean I want somebody to go and build infrastructure just for my needs. I just hope it is there in 15 years time. I feel COVID may have put things back by a good 5-7 years at least, especially if requiring gov funding.

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5 hours ago, blybo said:

towing a 3.5 tonne van? What is technically achievable and what is viable are 2 very different things. Now that does not mean I want somebody to go and build infrastructure just for my needs. I just hope it is there in 15 years time. I feel COVID may have put things back by a good 5-7 years at least, especially if requiring gov funding.

No, you are unlikely to do it towing a 3.5 ton van. You could probably do most of it, not all of it. You can do all of it if you aren't towing. 

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On 07/08/2020 at 7:03 PM, proftournesol said:

You can do all of it if you aren't towing. 

With 2 people in the car and the usual gear you would take for a long holiday like a couple of bikes on the roof or on a towball hitch? I read the article, she was driving a Model S, so 450km-ish range solo, and still had to limit speed across the Nullabor to increase range and arrived with 16km of range left at one charging stop. Many other impractical charging moments in WA too. It's not even practical in that car with no passengers, never mind somebody wanting to do "the big lap", which usually involves towing something or a big heavy overland expedition 4wd with roof top tent.

 

Once again I want this to happen, so don't take my comments as overly negative, but I don't see it as doable any time soon, just because somebody was prepared to go out of their way and put up with major charging issues, just to prove is was possible. Our big lap will include many places inland like Karijini National Park and Uluru as well.

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11 minutes ago, ArthurDent said:

You nearly had me there 😉

 

130km/hr limited class win.

Dang..... I thought it was exceptional.

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6 hours ago, blybo said:

With 2 people in the car and the usual gear you would take for a long holiday like a couple of bikes on the roof or on a towball hitch? I read the article, she was driving a Model S, so 450km-ish range solo, and still had to limit speed across the Nullabor to increase range and arrived with 16km of range left at one charging stop. Many other impractical charging moments in WA too. It's not even practical in that car with no passengers, never mind somebody wanting to do "the big lap", which usually involves towing something or a big heavy overland expedition 4wd with roof top tent.

 

Once again I want this to happen, so don't take my comments as overly negative, but I don't see it as doable any time soon, just because somebody was prepared to go out of their way and put up with major charging issues, just to prove is was possible. Our big lap will include many places inland like Karijini National Park and Uluru as well.

I've done those holidays, 2 people in the car, bikes on a rear hitch. Range is reduced, of course, but I managed a trip over the Victorian Alps to Bairnsdale (gee, that sounds exotic these days). There are also far more charging options now that even when she did her trip, and in a year's time, there'll probably be double that again.

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looks like lucid airs range has surpassed tesla with their new sleek thing passing the 500 mile mark with 517 miles....

 

https://mashable.com/article/lucid-air-electric-vehicle-range/

 

blueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.co

good to see some long range efforts going on... carrs like that will certainly serve our big brown land well...

 

apparently starts at ... $60k usd

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