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nissan is just about giving away the leaf now. still expensive. but you get at zero deposit and zero interest rate. am sure some will take up the offer. its a nice looking car, just expensive still ! 

 

http://www.nissan.com.au/Cars-Vehicles/LEAF/Offers?utm_source=Columbus%20AU&utm_medium=NATIONAL_GENERIC&utm_content=SOCIAL&utm_campaign=2014-decembercloserlook

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My EV journey has begun.  Picked up “Zephyr” last night at 6.30pm ( along with 5 other people getting their EV  at the same time). It’s my second car where I looked at the number plate and realised Qu

Now now there's no need for that. My smug look is because I can drag you off.

My Model S turns 4 tomorrow. It's done 157,000km It's 70% supercharged I lost 10km of range in the first few months, as happens to everyone. I've lost no range since. My 2015

Takes a whole new meaning in "fill her up". The charging dock must be purchased separately, ya think with this new concept they in included that in the price. Like HC2007 says, the hybrid is still the way to go, 170km is for yummy mummies taking the kids for school. :D

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At this stage and for reasons of practicality I reckon a Hybrid is still a better bet. I am sure with the passage of time, "all electric" will become more common.

 

IMO, the GM Volt and the Mitsubishi PHEV are the two standouts ATM. Both make the most sense for anyone who ventures away from a power point, but does lots of city kms. Of the two, the Volt looks like very poor value for money. For my part, as a mostly city driver, I would fill the fuel tank once or twice PA using either vehicle and, with a garage roof loaded with PV cells, could, conceivably pay nothing for electricity. Running costs should prove to be extremely low.

Edited by Zaphod Beeblebrox
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IMO, the GM Volt, the Mitsubishi PHEV are the two standouts ATM. Both make the most sense for anyone who ventures away from a power point, but does lots of city kms. Of the two, the Volt looks like very poor value for money. For my part, as a mostly city driver, I would fill the fuel tank once or twice PA and, with a garage roof loaded with PV cells, could, conceivably pay nothing for electricity. Running costs should prove to be extremely low.

 

not sure on the mitsubishi, but the volt too has very poor perceived value. I've posted before where at a holden dealer they had one there (only one on the lot) and they were happy to consider any offer on. said managers special and must go ! this was a large deer ship too.

 

good to see nissan going on the front foot to improve the value equation. whats at their disadvantage is volume though, with such small volumes of them selling I can imagine getting them to meet ADRs and all the costs to develop them for "australian conditions" probably not helping the equation.

 

most of the companies though still seem to be going hybrid rather than pure electric. wonder what will take to change that scenario.

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http://myelectriccar.com.au

 

interesting website that one. 

 

one area that seems to be going along in the back ground is electric conversions. when I visited my local epson service centre a couple of years back they were already doing conversions of little hatchbacks with electric motors. they had one on the show room floor and videos showing in operation...

 

http://electronflow.com.au

 

theres many others too, a quick google will show many doing this kind of thing around australia

 

http://zeva.com.au/Projects/RX7/

 

RX7_big.jpg

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Nissan apparently over-estimated the demand for the Leaf here and all the models for sale are 2011 Leafs as they won't import more until the old stock has sold. There's apparently a new leaf coming with a claimed 250km range but no idea of a timeline for it.

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most of the companies though still seem to be going hybrid rather than pure electric. wonder what will take to change that scenario.

 

Battery capacity and charging facilities, 160Km out of a tank is not good even for a little car.  Where are the charging facilities in the carparks? The only charging facility for the Volt is in Port Melbourne outside Holdens HQ.    Hybrids will still be around for a while.

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Nissan apparently over-estimated the demand for the Leaf here and all the models for sale are 2011 Leafs as they won't import more until the old stock has sold. There's apparently a new leaf coming with a claimed 250km range but no idea of a timeline for it.

 

ouch, i wonder how many prospective buyers will realise this. as people know car resale with dealers and wholesale is dependant on compliance (build date) rather than date registered. resale will take a big hit just buying what is effectively a 3-4 year old car. once the 2015 leaf launches, resale would plummet even further ! can imagine why nissan are deals on these !

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Battery capacity and charging facilities, 160Km out of a tank is not good even for a little car.  Where are the charging facilities in the carparks? The only charging facility for the Volt is in Port Melbourne outside Holdens HQ.    Hybrids will still be around for a while.

 

true I haven't seen charging stations around at all. not like san fran quite some years ago where even ferry stations had charging points. but then san fran is electric car and hybrid car central ! 

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one thing I notice, reading profs thread on the tesla. is they are installing charging stations which is good. but I do hope charging stations are generic. i.e. will do any electric car. otherwise this could be like the smarphone debacle where governments can't get them to standardise. meaning countless chargers and cables get thrown away by people when they update/change phones, plus multiple chargers in a hoese hold of mixed brands. and in the electric car situation would mean duplication of charging points around the country from each brand unless their receptacles and charging needs are compatible. could be a lot of wasted cost and infrastructure.

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Infrastructure for EVs is very very poor here. It'll be interesting to see which standard wins out here, mostly we have Type 1 or 2 low powered chargers here with European connectors, Tesla use their own proprietary connectors and much higher power (>100A ) chargers. The fact that they are free use for Tesla owners may limit the incentive to install compatible commercial chargers that are pay for use.

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Infrastructure for EVs is very very poor here. It'll be interesting to see which standard wins out here, mostly we have Type 1 or 2 low powered chargers here with European connectors, Tesla use their own proprietary connectors and much higher power (>100A ) chargers. The fact that they are free use for Tesla owners may limit the incentive to install compatible commercial chargers that are pay for use.

 

pity on the proprietary connectors they're definitely following the apple model. one way might have been for instance to use credit cards as authorisation for charges…if you are a tesla owner you get charged nothing, anyone else gets charged the requisite amount, i.e. only the charge you take. we could see electric charging points popping up in car parks everywhere…giving car park owners revenue and incentive to fit charging points and slowly replacing and taking revenue away from petrol stations… (though coles and WW would probably do their best to stop that ! ) though never know if they're smart enough you might see the coles little red electric car and little red electric charger pop up ! :D 

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Tesl are definitely following the Apple model although to their credit they have opened up their patents to encourage use of their charging technology. The problem with the existing Chargepoint chargers is that they recharge too slowly for cars like a Tesla, it's fine for small battery capacity cars like a Leaf but a Tesla would take all day to recharge at one, hence the high power Tesla superchargers that will totally recharge an 85kWhr battery in an hour. In real life of course a full charge will be much quicker as a battery will rarely be totally discharged.

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nissan is just about giving away the leaf now. still expensive. but you get at zero deposit and zero interest rate. am sure some will take up the offer. its a nice looking car, just expensive still ! 

 

http://www.nissan.com.au/Cars-Vehicles/LEAF/Offers?utm_source=Columbus%20AU&utm_medium=NATIONAL_GENERIC&utm_content=SOCIAL&utm_campaign=2014-decembercloserlook

That's a zero comparison rate. Beware!

 

https://www.carloans.com.au/guides/0-zero-percent-car-loans-the-truth/

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true its probably the same as any other finance offers from the likes of box movers, where the penalty is no negotiation on price. i.e. you prob pay 10% more for the car which covers the finance cost as in the example in the link ! .

 

I suppose it makes it an easy commitment initially for people buying in but you pay longer term.

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Tesl are definitely following the Apple model although to their credit they have opened up their patents to encourage use of their charging technology. The problem with the existing Chargepoint chargers is that they recharge too slowly for cars like a Tesla, it's fine for small battery capacity cars like a Leaf but a Tesla would take all day to recharge at one, hence the high power Tesla superchargers that will totally recharge an 85kWhr battery in an hour. In real life of course a full charge will be much quicker as a battery will rarely be totally discharged.

 

understand if the teslas need a larger charge requirement. but usually if you have higher charge capacity lower charge users should be able to use the same units to charge...ie it would just draw less charge. so pity if tesla are not making their units universally compatible. as they are they creating unnecessary need for duplication.  

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understand if the teslas need a larger charge requirement. but usually if you have higher charge capacity lower charge users should be able to use the same units to charge...ie it would just draw less charge. so pity if tesla are not making their units universally compatible. as they are they creating unnecessary need for duplication.  

Yes, why can't we have just one standard for once?

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not sure on the mitsubishi, but the volt too has very poor perceived value. I've posted before where at a holden dealer they had one there (only one on the lot) and they were happy to consider any offer on. said managers special and must go ! this was a large deer ship too.

 

good to see nissan going on the front foot to improve the value equation. whats at their disadvantage is volume though, with such small volumes of them selling I can imagine getting them to meet ADRs and all the costs to develop them for "australian conditions" probably not helping the equation.

 

most of the companies though still seem to be going hybrid rather than pure electric. wonder what will take to change that scenario.

 

The relative prices of the different vehicles demonstrate with absolute clarity, exactly what is wrong with the Volt:

 

Holden Volt RRP: $59,990.00

Holden Cruze (which is what the Volt really is) RRP: $24,090.00

 

Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV RRP: $52,490.00

Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire Petrol RRP: $44,485.00

 

The PHEV is VASTLY better value for money, based on the original vehicle it is based on.

 

Looking at the potential fuel economy makes the PHEV an even better proposition. Then, of course, is the love affair Australians have with SUV type vehicles.

 

It seems to me that Mitsubishi have read the market perfectly. 

 

Holden appear to be greedy. I don't really know. 

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only thing is the volt is very highly spend, leather and goodies and interior and all. but yeah poor value in the eyes of the beholder...who can still see the holden cruze that it really is :)

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A good start to making them more popular would be to make them look like normal cars instead of cartoony Barbie cars.

But they're heading a bit in the right direction now.

Same with a lot of the hybrid cars.

The Prius looks like a concept car from the 60's or something....

Yuk.

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I think the Leaf is a great little car for what it is. Nissan have sold more than 150,000 of them which is quite impressive. The issue we have locally is pricing and lack of incentives to purchase an electric car.

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An interesting article on the electric revolution

 

​In just 15 years, the world as we know it will have transformed forever. The â€‹age of oil, gas, coal and nuclear will be over. A new age of clean power and smarter cars will fundamentally, totally, and permanently disrupt the existing fossil fuel-dependent industrial infrastructure in a way that even the most starry-eyed proponents of ‘green energy’ could never have imagined. 

These are not the airy-fairy hopes of a tree-hugging hippy living off the land in an eco-commune. It’s the startling verdict of â€‹Tony Seba, a lecturer in business entrepreneurship, disruption and clean energy at Stanford University and a serial Silicon Valley entrepreneur.

Seba began his career at Cisco Systems in 1993, where he predicted the internet-fueled mobile revolution at a time when most telecoms experts were warning of the impossibility of building an Internet the size of the US, let alone the world. Now he is predicting the “inevitable” disruption of the fossil fuel infrastructure.

Seba’s thesis, set out in more detail in his new book Clean Disruption of Energy and Transportation, is that by 2030 “the industrial age of energy and transportation will be over,” swept away by “exponentially improving technologies such as solar, electric vehicles, and self-driving cars.”


Tremors of change

Seba’s forecasts are being taken seriously by some of the world’s most powerful finance, energy, and technology institutions.

Last November, Seba was a keynote speaker at JP Morgan’s Annual Global Technology, Media, and Telecom Conference in Asia, held in Hong Kong, where he delivered a stunning presentation on what he calls the “clean disruption.”

Seba’s JP Morgan talk focused on the inevitable disruption in the internal combustion engine. By his forecast, between 2017 and 2018, a mass migration from gasoline or diesel cars will begin, rapidly picking up steam and culminating in a market entirely dominated by electric vehicles (EV) by 2030.

Not only will our cars be electric, Seba predicts, but rapid developments in self-driving technologies will mean that future EVs will also be autonomous. The game-change is happening because of revolutionary cost-reductions in information technology, and because EVs are 90 percent cheaper to fuel and maintain than gasoline cars.

The main obstacle to the mass-market availability of EVs is the battery cost, which is around $500 per kilowatt hour (kWh). But this is pitched to fall dramatically in the next decade. By 2017, it could reach $350 kWh—which is the battery price-point where an electric car becomes cost-competitive with its gasoline equivalent. 

Seba estimates that by 2020, battery costs will fall to $200 kWh, and by 2024-25 to $100 kWh. At this point, the efficiency of a gasoline car would be irrelevant, as EVs would simply be far cheaper. By 2030, he predicts, “gasoline cars will be the 21st century equivalent of horse carriages.” 

It took only 13 years for societies to transition from complete reliance on horse-drawn carriages to roads teeming with primitive automobiles, Seba told his audience.

Lest one imagine Seba is dreaming, in its new quarterly report, the leading global investment firm Baron Funds concurs: “We believe that BMW will likely phase out internal combustion engines within 10 years.” (Investors at rival bank Morgan Stanley are making a similar bet, and are financing Tesla.)

Two days after his JP Morgan lecture, Seba was addressing the 2014 Global Leaders’ Forum in south Korea, sponsored by Korean government ministries for science and technology, where he elaborated on the prospects of an energy revolution. Within just 15 years, he said, solar and wind power will provide 100 percent of energy in competitive markets, with no need for government subsidies.

Over the last year Seba has even been invited to share his vision with oil and gas executives in the US and Europe. “Essentially, I’m telling them you’re out of business in less than 15 years,” Seba said.

SOLAR PANEL COSTS ARE NOW 154 TIMES CHEAPER THAN THEY WERE IN 1970

Revolutionary economics of renewables

For Seba, there is a simple reason that the economics of solar and wind are superior to the extractive industries. Extraction economics is about decreasing returns. As reserves deplete and production shifts to more expensive unconventional sources, costs of extraction rise. Oil prices may have dropped dramatically due to the OPEC supply glut, but costs of production remain high. Since 2000, the oil industry's investments have risen threefold by 180 percent, translating into a global oil supply increase of just 14 percent.

In contrast, the clean disruption is about increasing returns and decreasing costs. Seba, who dismisses biomass, biofuels and hydro-electric as uneconomical, points out that with every doubling of solar infrastructure, the production costs of solar photovoltaic (PV) panels fall by 22 percent. “The higher the demand for solar PV, the lower the cost of solar for everyone, everywhere,” said Seba. “All this enables more growth in the solar marketplace, which, because of the solar learning curve, further pushes down costs.”

Globally installed capacity of solar PV has grown from 1.4 GW in the year 2000 to 141 GW at the end of 2013: a compound annual growth rate of 43 percent. In the United States, new solar capacity has grown from 435 megawatts (MW) in 2009 to 4,751 MW in just four years: an even higher rate of 82 percent.

Meanwhile, solar panel costs are now 154 times cheaper than they were in 1970, dropping from $100 per watt to 65 cents per watt.

What we are seeing are exponential improvements in the efficiency of solar, the cost of solar, and the installation of solar. “Put these numbers together and you find that solar has improved its cost basis by 5,355 times relative to oil since 1970,” Seba said. “Traditional sources of energy can’t compete with this.”



A great delusion?

Other experts disagree. Renowned scientist Vaclav Smil of the University of Manitoba has studied the history of energy transitions, and argues that forecasts of an imminent renewable energy revolution are deluded. It took between 50 and 75 years for fossil fuels to contribute significantly to national energy requirements, in circumstances where technology was cheap and supplying baseload power (operating 24 hours continuously) was not a problem. So the idea that renewables could be scaled up in decades is fantasy, he argues.

Similarly, Australian sustainability expert Prof Ted Trainer of the University of New South Wales and the Simplicity Institute argues that renewables cannot cope with demand in industrial consumer societies. “The raw cost of PV is not crucial,” Prof Trainer told me. “Even if it was free it cannot provide any energy at all for about 17 hours on an average day, and in Europe there can be three weeks in a row with virtually no PV input.” 

Trainer also flagged-up ‘energy return on investment’ (EROI)—the quantity of energy one can get out compared to how much one puts in: “EROI for PV is around 3:1. It hardly matters what it costs if it’s down there.”

THERE ARE 300,000 SOLAR INSTALLATIONS IN THE US RIGHT NOW. BY 2022, THERE WILL BE 20 MILLION

Fossil fuel ostriches

“What the skeptics don’t understand is, when disruption happens, it happens swiftly, within two decades or even two years,” Seba told me. “Just ask anyone at your favorite camera film, telegraph, or typewriter company.” Kodak, a photography giant in 2003, filed for bankruptcy in 2012, as the digital photography revolutions swept away dependence on film. We’ve seen parallel disruptions with smartphones and tablets.

Seba’s main answer to Smil is to highlight the folly of extrapolating the potential for future energy transitions from the past. New clean energy industries are utterly different from old fossil fuel ones. It’s as if saying the industrial revolution could never have happened based on studying the feudal dynamics of pre-industrial societies.

Costs of solar are not just decreasing exponentially, they will continue to do so due to increasing innovation, scale, and competition. “There are 300,000 solar installations in the US right now. By 2022, there will be 20 million solar installations in the US,” Seba predicts.

As a rule, Seba said, when a technology product achieves critical mass (historically defined as about 15-20 percent of the market), its market growth accelerates further, and sometimes exponentially, due to the positive feedback effects. In hundreds of markets around the world, unsubsidized solar is already cheaper than subsidized fossil fuels and nuclear power. A new Deutsche Bank report just made headlines at the end of October for predicting that solar electricity in the US is on track to be as cheap or cheaper than fossil fuels as early as 2016.

Seba also dismisses concerns about baseload, pointing me to the new Solar Reserve110 MW baseload solar plant in the Nevada desert, running on molten salt storage, that will power Las Vegas at night.

Meanwhile, increasing efficiencies and plummeting costs of lithium ion (li-on) batteries are already making night-time residential storage of PV and wind power cost-effective. Every year, li-ion battery costs drop by 14-16 percent. By 2020, experts believe that li-on will cost around $200-250 per kilowatt per hour (kWh) in which case, according to Seba: “A user could, for about $15.30 per month, have eight hours of storage to shift solar generation from day to evening, not pay for peak prices, and participate in demand-response programs.”


​Judgement Day

At the current rate of growth, Seba’s projections show, globally installed solar capacity will reach 56.7 terrawatts (TW) in the next 15 years: equivalent to 18.9 TW of conventional baseload power. That would be enough to power the world, and then some—projected world energy demand at that time would be 16.9 TW.

Paul Gilding, who has spent the last 20 years advising global corporations like Ford, DuPont, BHP Billiton, among many others on sustainable business strategy, agrees that the trends Seba highlights imply “a disruptive transformational system change” that outpaces the “assumptions built on the old world view of centralised generation.” Author of The Great Disruption, Gilding said that “it’s the systemic interactions of software, new players, disruptive business models and technology that accelerates the shift,” and which “will be self reinforcing”—not just cheap prices.

EROI concerns are therefore a red-herring. Seba argues that the minimal costs of maintaining solar panels which last many decades, coupled with the free energy generation once initial costs are repaid, mean that real EROI for solar is dramatically higher than fossil fuels in the long-run.

“Should solar continue on its exponential trajectory, the energy infrastructure will be 100-percent solar by 2030,” Seba said. “The only reason for this not to happen is that governments will protect or subsidize conventional coal, nuclear, oil, gas generating stations—even when this means higher prices for consumers.”

While solar â€‹has already reached ‘grid parity’, becoming as cheap or cheaper than utility rates in many markets, within five years Seba anticipates the arrival of what he calls ‘God Parity’: when onsite rooftop solar generation is cheaper than transmission costs. Then, even if fossil fuel plants generated at zero costs (an impossibility), they could never compete with onsite solar. So after 2020, the conventional energy industry will start going bankrupt.

The costs of wind, which complements solar at night and in winter, is also plummeting and will beat every other energy source, except solar, in the same time-frame, according to his analysis.

“We are on the cusp of the largest disruption of industry and society since the first industrial revolution. Large, centralized, top-down, supplier-centric energy is on its way out. It is being replaced by modular, distributed, bottom-up, open, knowledge-based, consumer-centric energy,” said Seba. “The transition has already started and the disruption will be swift. Conventional energy sources are already obsolete or soon to be obsolete.”

But for Gilding, like Trainer, the clean disruption will also disrupt economic growth as we know it: “In the end we’ll have to wake up to the impossibility of endless economic growth. Even with very cheap, zero carbon energy, we can’t have endless growth nor human progress defined by shopping.”

One thing is certain: as the old energy paradigm dies, in its ruins, the opportunities for a new post-industrial paradigm are emerging faster than anyone anticipated.

 
 
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I think the Leaf is a great little car for what it is. Nissan have sold more than 150,000 of them which is quite impressive. The issue we have locally is pricing and lack of incentives to purchase an electric car.

 

maybe thats overseas tom, in oz its had a very poor run, no doubt nissan wants to change that :)

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maybe thats overseas tom, in oz its had a very poor run, no doubt nissan wants to change that :)

Yes, that is in reference to global sales. I have read somewhere that sales here are around the 400 mark.

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the leaf car now officially under $40k and with  low interest give away...

 

http://www.nissan.com.au/Discover/News/2013/May/02/NISSAN-LEAF-NOW-AVAILABLE-FROM-39990-DRIVE-AWAY

 

problem I still think is most will just see it as as comparison to other sub $20k...never mind the electric charging bit. at end of it in driving its same as a sub $20k car.

 

I wonder what resale will be like ? checking on car sales they seem to be clearing  few from 2012 ??? with 0% finance must have a bit of a backlog. read the fine print though and it says for the price the EV charging unit is not included *blink*

 

in other news...

 

Volvo EVs are officially "parked"

 

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2015/volvo/volvo-evs-parked-48809

 

After becoming one of the first European car makers to offer a showroom-ready electric vehicle (EV), Volvo is shelving plans for more zero emission EVs.


The Scandinavian car maker revealed the C30 BEV, its first EV, in late 2010 at that year's Paris motor show, and there was even talk of it coming to Australia. But four years on and the company's vice president of product strategy, Lex Kerssemakers, has implied that EVs are not profitable.

The Volvo decision maker told Autocar.co.uk that "Once there is a more sustainable business case behind full EV we can do it â€“ our platform is scalable and fully flexible." 

"But we must see how the EV business evolves and what pressures there are from fuel efficiency requirements and cities closing borders [to CO2 emitting vehicles]."

The company will instead focus its significant research and development dollars on honing its plug-in hybrid vehicles. 

Unlike a pure EV, which uses a large battery pack to power one or more electric motors, a plug-in hybrid retains its combustion engine to deliver a much greater driving range, but with the option of driving with zero emissions for shorter distances, usually around 30 to 50km.

Volvo has committed exclusively to four-cylinder engines now, with high-output units making use of twin charging (turbo and supercharger) and electric motors to boost performance, such as in the new XC90, which will be priced roughly between $90,000 and $123,000.

The Swedish company is planning a mad 336kW triple charged four-cylinder petrol engine for its next-generation fire-breathing Polestar model, a move which is being favoured by more and more car makers in their search for high-performance and low CO2 emissions.

Kerssemakers confirmed that the current plug-in hybrid strategy will ensure the company refines its plug-in hybrid technology, which can offer "the best of both worlds" in terms of efficiency and range.

The absence of love for EVs is no more evident than in Australia, where a lack of infrastructure and government incentives, combined with long travel distances, has conspired to virtually kill the segment.

 

 

honda doesn't seem to be having a great run with their hybrids either, after axing the insight this time last year, they have now axed the honda CRZ as well

 

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2015/honda/crz/honda-cr-z-axed-in-australia-48803

 

according to the article this follows the decision for europe to do the same this time last year with the insight. 

 

local guys here saying there will be a "hybrid sport" range coming. hopefully the Sport name tag brings some exciting cars from honda as that has been missing from their range for a few years

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I think that the profitability of BEVs depends on the battery cost, obviously Volvo can't do it at that price point. Tesla chose a higher price point for the Model S and reportedly sells each one at a 25% margin although all the 'profit' is ploughed back into the company ATM. The next Tesla, the Model III will be aiming for a US$30,000 price point but Tesla are building their own battery factory to halve the cost of batteries so that it can be made profitably. Depending on the exchange rates it should be around $40,000 here :)

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hmmm

 

interesting review on the prius plug in by the german Drive It ! program.

 

pretty ordinary car. and according to the reviewer because of the $10K euro higher price of the electric car, the fuel saving of plug in electric charging though will take 350,000km to pay off and the extra cost of the car…and you still need to pay the cost of electricity on top of that ! *blink* that doesn't really make much if any economical sense…and not that think a car like the prius is one I would like to be keeping for 350,000 kms to pay off the cost difference vs the cheaper ordinary petrol car !  

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"For an electric car, which would help the brand comply with tightening environmental regulations, Porsche is targeting a range of more 500 kilometers (310 miles) before needing to recharge, which shouldn't take longer than a normal stop on a motorway, he said."

 

quite a target there from porsche on their electric car,

 

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/porsches-tesla-rival-20150316-1m03tj.html

 

but thats whats really needed I think for electric cars to take of in this country…whether porsche's target  is more aspirational…well thats another thing. and am sure will have a price to match. but its good as there will be trickle down and being part of the VW group will get down to even quite budget models eventually e.g. the polo and Up ! and such one day...

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Easy to claim but I'd like to see Porsche produce it at an affordable cost. I don't think that people need instant charging for EVs to become mainstream. What's needed is extensive home and workplace charging infrastructure. Long trips require a realistic range of 400-600kms and a realistic recharge period. Most long trips are punctuated with fuel, food and toilet breaks, as long as recharge can occur within 20 minutes that provides sufficient time without a noticeable delay.

Elon Musk claims that people approach him regularly with new battery designs that come with amazing claims of performance, durability and recharge performance. When he asks to see a working commercial sample he never hears from them again. He says that Tesla could easily produce batteries with greater range but that they wouldn't be affordable. I think that Tesla has quite a lead over traditional cr companies in this area.

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from this article electric cars are very much a different proposition overseas....charging infrastructure, the cars available....and the price you can buy it at...

 

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/government-policy-putting-the-brakes-on-electric-cars-renault-20150702-gi2t1x.html

 

not great outlook here by comparison...

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from this article electric cars are very much a different proposition overseas....charging infrastructure, the cars available....and the price you can buy it at...

 

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/government-policy-putting-the-brakes-on-electric-cars-renault-20150702-gi2t1x.html

 

not great outlook here by comparison...

Do you reckon that we should subsidise half the cost of electric cars as in France? An interesting policy topic.

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They have their own industry to subsidise eg the home made Renault ...

... We have nothing of the sort ... So would've subsidising a foreign owned company for half their product cost. Not sure how well that will go down ... As with the very different power source we have here vs Europe as mentioned in the article. It does bring up some good points. ReAlity is we aren't here locally anywhere like overseas when cones to electric cars ...

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Posting the contents of an article from Drive .com - http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/government-policy-putting-the-brakes-on-electric-cars-renault-20150702-gi2t1x.html

Government policy putting the brakes on electric cars: Renault

Renault Australia boss Justin Hocevar has held up the delivery of the Renault Nissan Alliance's 250,000th electric car as evidence the Australian government has the wrong approach to motoring.

The partnership sold the landmark car, a Renault Zoe hatch, to French resident Yves Nivelle, who took advantage of a €10,000 ($14,500) subsidy to buy a €21,990 ($31,885) car for little more than half its retail price.

"The government's environmental bonus was a big factor in my decision to get an EV," Nivelle says.

The French subsidy encourages drivers to trade in older diesel models for a new electric car.

For customers who aren't prepare to pay cash for the car, other French subsidies allow drivers to lease an electric Renault for just €99 ($145) per month.

Australian drivers miss out on the Renault Zoe as tawdry charging infrastructure and a lack of rebates provide little incentive for people to choose electric cars.

"The lack of support for electric vehicles certainly impacts the business plan for Renault to introduce electric vehicles to Australia," Hocevar says.

"Currently electric vehicles in Australia carry a price premium over their internal combustion engine counterparts and in such a competitive and price sensitive market; this does make it difficult for us to look at introducing product."

Asked whether the Federal Government would consider subsidising electric cars, a spokesman for Ian Macfarlane, Minister for Industry and Science, says the main encouragement for people to consider green cars lay in the Green Vehicle Guide website that helps consumers compare cars "based on greenhouse and air pollution emissions".

The government also charges less in luxury car tax to prestige vehicles that use less than 7.0L/100km, however that threshold (set at $75,375) hasn't changed in four years.

Minister MacFarlane is on the record as saying electric cars are "an idea, not a solution", and that he is more interested in hydrogen-fuelled cars than machines that primarily use coal-sourced electricity.

That's not a notion supported in Norway, where government subsidises have pushed electric car sales to around one in five of all models. More than 50,000 electric cars are on the road in Norway, where battery-powered motorists benefit from reduced taxes, toll-free use of motorways, free parking and the use of public transport lanes.

Hocevar says "it would be fantastic if we could emulate this support in Australia", but "at this stage we don't believe there is a plan for the government to introduce support in the near future".

"The lack of support for electric vehicles in Australia is disappointing," he says.

The difference between Australia and Norway is that the majority of local power comes from coal, whereas the Scandinavian nation relies on hydroelectric energy. Yet plenty of other federal, state and local governments around the globe provide strong incentives for green cars, and Hocevar isn't the only Australian executive to criticise the government's approach to electric machines.

BMW Australia boss Marc Heinrich-Werner is on the record as saying the government shows "a complete lack of interest as far as e-mobility is concerned", while Nissan chief executive Richard Emery made headlines in April for a strident critique of government policy surrounding what he described as a frustrating "lack of understanding" surrounding the success of electric cars.

"The two barriers to its local acceptance are the same two it has faced everywhere else in the world, and they aren't marketing or so-called 'range anxiety': they are the lack of publicly available battery recharging infrastructure and the absence of government-driven incentives for consumers to buy a zero-emissions car," he says.

"These two facilities are behind the success of electric vehicles in Europe, the USA and Japan. And we need them here."

While Nissan and the Federal Government are likely at odds over who is responsible for implementing changes that could encourage people to buy electric cars, a spokesman for MacFarlane's department says a study commissioned by the government arrived at a similar conclusion to the car company in that "electric vehicles have a number of advantages over conventional vehicles that can be realised if their upfront cost continues to come down and infrastructure challenges can be overcome".

Edited by Full Range
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