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On 26/04/2021 at 12:27 PM, blybo said:

750km's per day? In metro Melbourne? I'm calling BS on that unless you work 12+hr shifts and spend VAST majority of your shift driving everyday.

LOL Yep I call that BS too!  I love the assumption!   I never said i  that every day.   And I never said I did 700+ km in the western suburbs!
I love the way the assumption!  I’ve said it b4 and I’ll say it again,  I could be anywhere in suburban Melbourne, next call I do can Swan Hill, Nathalia etc.  or I could do a trip 1st thing in the morning and go to HMAS Cerberus 1st call from Point Cook And yes whether you believe it or not driving to those places and I make it back Home the same day!   Get back at all hours.  While we are at it,  due to a loss of Sydney’s staff,  some of us are driving up there on a weekend, working a week or two and then driving back! And I bet some here will call that  BS too! 

 

1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:
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My EV journey has begun.  Picked up “Zephyr” last night at 6.30pm ( along with 5 other people getting their EV  at the same time). It’s my second car where I looked at the number plate and realised Qu

12 months plus of Tesla ownership after waiting a decade plus to own a truely practical EV.  How do I sum it up in one picture ....and I am not great with a camera.   ( photo: looking back from my dri

Now now there's no need for that. My smug look is because I can drag you off.

1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:

LOL Yep I call that BS too!  I love the assumption!   I never said i  that every day.   And I never said I did 700+ km in the western suburbs!
I love the way the assumption is made.   And what would you know about what I’m required to do?   I’ve said it b4 and I’ll say it again,  I could be anywhere in suburban Melbourne, next call I do can Swan Hill, Nathalia etc.  And yes whether you believe it or not driving to those places and I make it back to Melb the same day!   Get back at all hours.  While we are at it,  due to a loss of Sydney’s staff,  some of us are driving up there on a weekend, working a week or two and then driving back! And I bet some here will call the BS too! 

 

No, we get it. You need 1000km range per day and filling in 5 minutes. You're less than 1% of the population and are not going to be the target audience now, or possibly ever. No need to harp on about it on a daily basis as though it affects the other 99.9% of the population though.

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20 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

 

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/toyota-to-launch-bz4x-electric-suv-in-australia/news-story/43e213d277ea117f408b70e9ee0d755c
 

 

check the steering wheel out and the instrumentation,  very different to that Toyota way of a boring manufacturer.

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15 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

No, we get it. You need 1000km range per day and filling in 5 minutes. You're less than 1% of the population and are not going to be the target audience now, or possibly ever. No need to harp on about it on a daily basis as though it affects the other 99.9% of the population though.


we are not one percent, far from it, even Tesla owners are ditching there Tesla’s on long drives in America, it’s a inconvenience and a waste of time, time you can’t get back.  I get if you have nothing better to do with you cash and have to be different...  IEC will have a future and I’m sure other fuel sources will be taken advantage off becuase we can’t rely on EV alone 

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2 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:


we are not one percent, far from it, even Tesla owners are ditching there Tesla’s on long drives in America, it’s a inconvenience and a waste of time, time you can’t get back.  I get if you have nothing better to do with you cash and have to be different...  IEC will have a future and I’m sure other fuel sources will be taken advantage off becuase we can’t rely on EV alone 

That's some serious FUD there. Have fun.

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2 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

LOL Yep I call that BS too!  I love the assumption!   I never said i  that every day.   And I never said I did 700+ km in the western suburbs!
I love the way the assumption!  I’ve said it b4 and I’ll say it again,  I could be anywhere in suburban Melbourne, next call I do can Swan Hill, Nathalia etc.  or I could do a trip 1st thing in the morning and go to HMAS Cerberus 1st call from Point Cook And yes whether you believe it or not driving to those places and I make it back Home the same day!   Get back at all hours.  While we are at it,  due to a loss of Sydney’s staff,  some of us are driving up there on a weekend, working a week or two and then driving back! And I bet some here will call that  BS too! 

Vaccine next month and yep I could easily do 700+ km in a day. That’s just a border run and back for me in a day trip was only 35L tank of fuel in my little fiat 500 when had that :D still only tank of fuel for me and would usually involve a coffee stop on way up and way back ... usually lunch in town, 

 

any fuel stops for me are only a splash and dash...am sure we’ll get there with EVs with range without needing to be a land barge :D with mortgage plus being able to “spark and dash” :D

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On 28/04/2021 at 7:17 AM, Ittaku said:

That's some serious FUD there. Have fun.

Almost everybody that hasn't driven an EV daily has range anxiety. Almost nobody that has driven an EV daily experiences range anxiety. Anxiety always reflects the worst case scenario but never reflects the likelihood: the formula for risk calculation is Risk = likelihood x consequences, or in psychological terms, Risk = left brain calculated likelihood x right brain calculated consequences, represented by anxiety.

Edited by proftournesol
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Top gears electric awards... 

 

"Here we go then. The greatest electric cars in the world right now, according to Top Gear. The best of batteries, the cream of capacitors, the peak of permanent magnet synchronous motors.

Rubber boots on, no sticking your fingers in the sockets, it’s time to flip the switch."

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/revealed-winners-2021-top-gear-electric-awards#1

 

I suppose it is some sign of maturity of the electric car that there isnt a tesla to be seen...

 

Like to see what the Renault 5 is as a small EV when it finally eventuates in 2023...

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On 28/04/2021 at 5:36 AM, Addicted to music said:

LOL Yep I call that BS too!  I love the assumption!   I never said i  that every day.   And I never said I did 700+ km in the western suburbs!

you said "I do that in one day" which does imply it is a standard day. I can do 1000km in a day too, and 3-4000 in a week but I would make sure to clarify that is out of the ordinary despite happening multiple times a year.

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On 28/04/2021 at 9:47 AM, proftournesol said:

Almost everybody that hasn't driven an EV daily has range anxiety. Almost nobody that has driven an EV daily experiences range anxiety. Anxiety always reflects the worst case scenario but never reflects the likelihood: the formula for risk calculation is Risk = likelihood x consequences, or in psychological terms, Risk = left brain calculated likelihood x right brain calculated consequences, represented by anxiety.

 

But that is not how most humans think. We want a vehicle to cover all situations despite potentially choosing something that doesn't do the everyday as well. This why most manufacturers of EV's are concentrating on what would most likely be a families 2nd run-about car. I only tow my caravan 5+6 times a year but I have to purchase a vehicle capable of it as I can't just easily hire a tow vehicle. Even so, I may tow my van somewhere for 10 days and only use the car to/from that location, which doesn't make sense for a hire vehicle either.

 

Thankfully we restricted ourselves to a medium sized van to allow a SUV  "tug" that is also great day to day.

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21 minutes ago, blybo said:

But that is not how most humans think. We want a vehicle to cover all situations despite potentially choosing something that doesn't do the everyday as well.

 

Exactly so.  If you intend to run with one car, you want one to do all the things you need a car to do.

21 minutes ago, blybo said:

I only tow my caravan 5+6 times a year but I have to purchase a vehicle capable of it as I can't just easily hire a tow vehicle. Even so, I may tow my van somewhere for 10 days and only use the car to/from that location, which doesn't make sense for a hire vehicle either.

 

I tow a lot more than that,  typically 3000 to 5000 km a year :) 

 

21 minutes ago, blybo said:

Thankfully we restricted ourselves to a medium sized van to allow a SUV  "tug" that is also great day to day.

 

Correct decision, and a 2 litre turbo diesel medium SUV is ideal for us.  That role/capability is however a gap in the offerings available as electric vehicles.

Edited by aussievintage
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1 hour ago, blybo said:

 

But that is not how most humans think. We want a vehicle to cover all situations despite potentially choosing something that doesn't do the everyday as well. This why most manufacturers of EV's are concentrating on what would most likely be a families 2nd run-about car. I only tow my caravan 5+6 times a year but I have to purchase a vehicle capable of it as I can't just easily hire a tow vehicle. Even so, I may tow my van somewhere for 10 days and only use the car to/from that location, which doesn't make sense for a hire vehicle either.

 

Thankfully we restricted ourselves to a medium sized van to allow a SUV  "tug" that is also great day to day.

Gee, I'm an outlier then. If I ever wanted to tow, I'd rather hire an urban assault vehicle than choose to drive one every day just because there's a few days a year that I might use it.

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4 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

Exactly so.  If you intend to run with one car, you want one to do all the things you need a car to do.

 

I tow a lot more than that,  typically 3000 to 5000 km a year :) 

 

 

Correct decision, and a 2 litre turbo diesel medium SUV is ideal for us.  That role/capability is however a gap in the offerings available as electric vehicles.


Whats wrong with a somewhat restricted EV range due to high mass and awful aero necessitating charging more often, so long as the chargers are provided. Why can’t you road trip at a more modest pace or take a small trailer and tent instead. Find a way to make do and make it work.  My parents were great at making do. It was part of the adventure. When I was a kid in the 1970s we had a camper that collapsed down to a modest low trailer.  Great solution for small 1970s car with modest outputs.

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8 hours ago, Briz Vegas said:

so long as the chargers are provided.

 

but they aren't.  Some of the places don't even have fuel, but fuel can be carried in extra tanks and containers,  spare charge - not really.

 

9 hours ago, Briz Vegas said:

Why can’t you road trip at a more modest pace

 

I do,

 

9 hours ago, Briz Vegas said:

or take a small trailer and tent instead

 

I tow a small pop-top caravan already

 

Most EVs are not even rated for towing small loads.

 

9 hours ago, Briz Vegas said:

 My parents were great at making do.

 

"making do"  isn't the issue.  As we get older, there's a certain level of amenity that is required.

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17 hours ago, proftournesol said:

Gee, I'm an outlier then. If I ever wanted to tow, I'd rather hire an urban assault vehicle than choose to drive one every day just because there's a few days a year that I might use it.

Clearly you are not experienced with towing or how people with vans holiday. I might only drive a couple of 1000km a year with my van attached, but it represents about 30 days away from home every year which would get pretty pricey hiring a tug... if you could find one fitted with towing brake controllers and the right hitch etc...

 

I wouldn't call a mid sized Volvo XC60 an urban assault vehicle either, I'm sure it's shorter, narrower and lighter than your S.

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1 hour ago, blybo said:

Clearly you are not experienced with towing or how people with vans holiday. I might only drive a couple of 1000km a year with my van attached, but it represents about 30 days away from home every year which would get pretty pricey hiring a tug... if you could find one fitted with towing brake controllers and the right hitch etc...

 

I wouldn't call a mid sized Volvo XC60 an urban assault vehicle either, I'm sure it's shorter, narrower and lighter than your S.

Nah, I don't 'tow' anything other than a bike hitch. I've passed an X towing a caravan though. I remember driving a hire XC60 through the Dolomites years ago, at the time it felt like a huge barge, now, after the S it would feel small😀

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You *can't* tow with EV at all.

 

We were all told so a couple of years ago, don't you remember ?

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....and this one was posted previously

 

 

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On 01/05/2021 at 6:15 AM, Briz Vegas said:

 

....and this one was posted previously

 

 

Oh yes, but not in Australia right? because somehow it would break the weekend. (oh, and it would need to tow for thousands of kays across the outback to get to a local beach).

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On 01/05/2021 at 6:15 AM, Briz Vegas said:

 

 

 

 

Talk about the tail wagging the dog. 4000lb car towing a 6000+lb trailer. Might be able to do it, but doubt it's doing it well or particularly safely.

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1 hour ago, blybo said:

 

Talk about the tail wagging the dog. 4000lb car towing a 6000+lb trailer. Might be able to do it, but doubt it's doing it well or particularly safely.

What's a 'loob' (lb) anyway ?

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On 28/04/2021 at 7:50 AM, betty boop said:

Vaccine next month and yep I could easily do 700+ km in a day. That’s just a border run and back for me in a day trip was only 35L tank of fuel in my little fiat 500 when had that :D still only tank of fuel for me and would usually involve a coffee stop on way up and way back ... usually lunch in town, 

 

any fuel stops for me are only a splash and dash...am sure we’ll get there with EVs with range without needing to be a land barge :D with mortgage plus being able to “spark and dash” :D

Here’s a recent trip,

Filled up Colorado,  72Lt  total range diesel 860km point Cook to Sea Lake, or Lake Tyrell....390km to get there..    

Run down from Lake Tyrell to Stawell, Ararat, Ballarat,  no charging or Servos in some runs so make sure you’re full.   Got to Lake Tyrell, had 500km range and just slightly over 1/2 a tank.  Get to Ararat and it said there’s 200km range left, 1/2 way between towns  the low fill indicator flashes with 91 km to go, by the time I got to Ballarat 46km to go, so filling in Ballarat was a must!  I’ve done over 859km.   Fulled up in Ballarat and did another 160km back to Point Cook, that’s a 1000km total!  Now I have stayed over night and had 2 days to do this.    All along the trip as youre in the area there are no EV,  majority are all diesel utes, we are in wheat belt country !  Got to stop at a tourist destination for a break and saw a Model 3, and guess the owner; a retiree.....enuff said! 

 

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22 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

Here’s a recent trip,

Filled up Colorado,  72Lt  total range diesel 860km point Cook to Sea Lake, or Lake Tyrell....390km to get there..    

Run down from Lake Tyrell to Stawell, Ararat, Ballarat,  no charging or Servos in some runs so make sure you’re full.   Got to Lake Tyrell, had 500km range and just slightly over 1/2 a tank.  Get to Ararat and it said there’s 200km range left, 1/2 way between towns  the low fill indicator flashes with 91 km to go, by the time I got to Ballarat 46km to go, so filling in Ballarat was a must!  I’ve done over 859km.   Fulled up in Ballarat and did another 160km back to Point Cook, that’s a 1000km total!  Now I have stayed over night and had 2 days to do this.    All along the trip as youre in the area there are no EV,  majority are all diesel utes, we are in wheat belt country !  Got to stop at a tourist destination for a break and saw a Model 3, and guess the owner; a retiree.....enuff said! 

 

Big trip! 👍

 

To compare to an EV, in my X I'd need to top up twice to cover the 895 safely and have some residual at the other end. If the infrastructure was in place it would mean around 1 to 1&1/2 hour of rest time (across two stops) which wouldn't be silly if covering that distance in a day - a stop for coffee and a stop for lunch.

 

An S or 3 would do it better as they are more efficient.

 

So possible, but not probable without the infrastructure.

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Interesting what is considered a long trip these days. In my youth, a 700km day trip was considered normal, with just stops for fuel and toilets.  In fact,  1000 km day trips were not unknown.  Of course, now, 500km has me wanting to stop overnight :).  So, when recharging is available at all stops, and when EVs  do 500KM while towing, then OK, it's on!

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13 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

Victoria. government incentive for EV under $69k  up to $3000.   Only offsets this by there $0.025 per km travelled to regain fuel tax..

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-01/victorian-plan-to-boost-zero-emission-cars/100108626

They are happy to spend $40 million to sweeten the deal for the cross-bench, in 20 years time it'll be providing a $1 billion a year revenue stream by the time ICE cars have disappeared from the market.

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1 hour ago, proftournesol said:

They are happy to spend $40 million to sweeten the deal for the cross-bench, in 20 years time it'll be providing a $1 billion a year revenue stream by the time ICE cars have disappeared from the market.

I know what ide prefer ; an ongoing tax in perpetuity or a piddance discount on buying ; can see straight through it . At least NSW have shied away from the general revenue road tax  knowing ev's are in their infancy atm :$

 

Heres another model btw to drool over for those who can read between the right hand drive conversion hints :)

 MG Cyberster: Electric sports car concept confirmed for production, Australian delivery on the cards | CarAdvice

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looks like ford is readying its electric "lightening" ute version of F150 in us at least... suspect ford will say pigs will have to be airborne first before any chance this comes here....

https://www.drive.com.au/news/electric-ford-f-150-to-revive-lightning-name-report/

 

"It's expected the electric Ford F-150 Lightning will drive all four wheels from two electric motors, with a range of roughly 500km. Late last year Ford patented a small removable range-extender for the tub of the pick-up with the appearance of a tool box."


 

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21 minutes ago, betty boop said:

looks like ford is readying its electric "lightening" ute version of F150 in us at least... suspect ford will say pigs will have to be airborne first before any chance this comes here....

https://www.drive.com.au/news/electric-ford-f-150-to-revive-lightning-name-report/

 

"It's expected the electric Ford F-150 Lightning will drive all four wheels from two electric motors, with a range of roughly 500km. Late last year Ford patented a small removable range-extender for the tub of the pick-up with the appearance of a tool box."


 

 

 

Getting closer now.   Looks promising, and at least it shows they are interested in the market segment I am in.   Hope they also make something smaller in the same vein.

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8 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

Getting closer now.   Looks promising, and at least it shows they are interested in the market segment I am in.   Hope they also make something smaller in the same vein.

Wuling, This has to be just made for you and the local tradies down the pub.😎😀😆

A33DAD12-7632-4EB1-9F6F-3BD2F514E242.jpeg

Edited by Briz Vegas
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Posted (edited)

Watching the growth of EVs in other countries, and the UK in particular.  The UK now has 500,000 registered cars with a plug (PHEV and BEV) and just under 4O% of new cars sold in March 2021 had a plug. We have 10,000 Tesla’s and 20,000 total EVs in Australia ( that most likely includes PHEVs).  In 2021 so far Australian’s bought a quarter of a million combustion vehicles and under 1,000 EVs, mostly Teslas.

 

“We drive way more than the UK.  Australia is big so we drive a million miles a year!.”  

 

We also ride kangaroos to work and drop bears killed 217 Australians last year.  Average annual mileage driven is 13,500km in Queensland and ......wait for it....12,800km in the UK ( thanks Google).

 

Charging infrastructure isn’t ready yet
 

It seems that folks in UK though that too, so anecdotally here is what the response is with a bit of a nudge in the right direction from government last year.

 

PS note, those chargers are all Tritium units, that’s the Brisbane charger company started by two University of Queensland students. They build units in a Brisbane, although manufacturing has now gone multinational, after all we have virtually no EVs here.  FFS ( as the advert goes)

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The UK has 20% electricity supply comes from 7 active out of 15 nuclear power plants and the rest are gas driven.  
IS Australia prepared to go nuclear for clean energy, or more important are you prepare to have one in your backyard?   Doesn’t matter what you greenies think,  if you don’t go nuclear there are no carbon benefits to gain.  There’s a US University study that compares the production and usage of a Tesla and a RAV4 ICE,  if you live in a country or a place that’s nuclear generated you will benefit in carbon emissions after around 30,000 miles and after that the Tesla will benefit.  If you are in Australia there are no benefits in carbon omissions for a Tesla,  and due to its cost it’s not really for the masses. 

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49 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

The UK has 20% electricity supply comes from 7 active out of 15 nuclear power plants and the rest are gas driven.  
IS Australia prepared to go nuclear for clean energy, or more important are you prepare to have one in your backyard?   Doesn’t matter what you greenies think,  if you don’t go nuclear there are no carbon benefits to gain.  There’s a US University study that compares the production and usage of a Tesla and a RAV4 ICE,  if you live in a country or a place that’s nuclear generated you will benefit in carbon emissions after around 30,000 miles and after that the Tesla will benefit.  If you are in Australia there are no benefits in carbon omissions for a Tesla,  and due to its cost it’s not really for the masses. 

Thorium reactors tick all the boxes but somehow haven't been advanced. Maybe because they can't make bombs out of them.

Can't bomb someone with alternative energy sources either.

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2 hours ago, Briz Vegas said:

PS note, those chargers are all Tritium units, that’s the Brisbane charger company started by two University of Queensland students. They build units in a Brisbane, although manufacturing has now gone multinational, after all we have virtually no EVs here.  FFS ( as the advert goes)

 

That mirrors Johnny Howard's policies driving the then world leading PV industry from Australia

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11 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

The UK has 20% electricity supply comes from 7 active out of 15 nuclear power plants and the rest are gas driven.  
IS Australia prepared to go nuclear for clean energy, or more important are you prepare to have one in your backyard?   Doesn’t matter what you greenies think,  if you don’t go nuclear there are no carbon benefits to gain.  There’s a US University study that compares the production and usage of a Tesla and a RAV4 ICE,  if you live in a country or a place that’s nuclear generated you will benefit in carbon emissions after around 30,000 miles and after that the Tesla will benefit.  If you are in Australia there are no benefits in carbon omissions for a Tesla,  and due to its cost it’s not really for the masses. 

 

This is incorrect - basic research shows that just replacing a fuel burning car with an EV drops carbon output due to the refining/transport of fuel and efficiency of electric motors vs ICE. It was posted previously in this thread.

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19 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

The UK has 20% electricity supply comes from 7 active out of 15 nuclear power plants and the rest are gas driven.  
IS Australia prepared to go nuclear for clean energy, or more important are you prepare to have one in your backyard?   Doesn’t matter what you greenies think,  if you don’t go nuclear there are no carbon benefits to gain.  There’s a US University study that compares the production and usage of a Tesla and a RAV4 ICE,  if you live in a country or a place that’s nuclear generated you will benefit in carbon emissions after around 30,000 miles and after that the Tesla will benefit.  If you are in Australia there are no benefits in carbon omissions for a Tesla,  and due to its cost it’s not really for the masses. 

17.7% at this very moment in the UK according to the live data. They also have a new nuke on the way but massive cost and construction blowouts on the project just highly their folly.  

 

I was once an advocate of nuclear as a last ditch solution about 2 decades ago. I now understand it is unnecessary and the most expensive way of making electricity. Basically it ain't gonna happen.

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