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My EV journey has begun.  Picked up “Zephyr” last night at 6.30pm ( along with 5 other people getting their EV  at the same time). It’s my second car where I looked at the number plate and realised Qu

Now now there's no need for that. My smug look is because I can drag you off.

12 months plus of Tesla ownership after waiting a decade plus to own a truely practical EV.  How do I sum it up in one picture ....and I am not great with a camera.   ( photo: looking back from my dri

9 hours ago, GregWormald said:

Very spacey—but I'll bet it's a pig to operate all the touch screens.

Yes, an ergonomic disaster as well as a fingerprint magnet

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7 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

Yes, an ergonomic disaster as well as a fingerprint magnet

 

 

Just imagine it after a trip through the red dust on the Tanami track? :)  

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4 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

Just imagine it after a trip through the red dust on the Tanami track? :)  

...or kids eating something whilst sitting in the front seat. 

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3 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

Just imagine it after a trip through the red dust on the Tanami track? :)  

probably get the one with the red interior for that ... if can afford these am sure can afford a car for every occasion :D 

 

2 hours ago, proftournesol said:

...or kids eating something whilst sitting in the front seat. 

kids eating in the car ? :D 

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Just perfect for a night-time long exposure shot through a lit up tunnel.

 

21c0123_033.jpg

Edited by ArthurDent
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Wow!  No FBT on electrics would suddenly have me very interested.  Leasing previously has never added up for me

 

No FBT for electric cars

 

of course it’s all just hot air.  But interesting idea.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Steam said:

Wow!  No FBT on electrics would suddenly have me very interested.  Leasing previously has never added up for me

 

No FBT for electric cars

 

of course it’s all just hot air.  But interesting idea.

 

 

 

 

This was hitting the news as I drove around yesterday, and they had a guy from VW (of all brands) talking about the lack of regulations forcing lower emmissions from Aussie vehicles,  and how Australia was a dumping ground for old tech, even in ICE vehicles.  Because of poor fuel quality, newer better ICE tech was not  being (can't be) used here - something like 10 year old tech being used.  He was relating this to there being a bigger price difference, and a reason why electric cars are not taking off here compared to the rest of the world.   The old tech is cheap, so a bigger gap to electric.  

 

On top of that (and this is just my opinion from a personal point of view), there's still too many applications that electric can't fulfill, and buying more than one vehicle just so we can have hobbies like caravanning and boating , and still use electric around the city, is too far from being cost effective.  

 

Lowering the price a tad by removing FBT isn't going to be enough to tip the balance, even IF it happens.

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Hyundai ioniq 5 review - walk around ...

 

https://www.caradvice.com.au/940388/2022-hyundai-ioniq-5-review-first-look-walkaround/?

 

"As noted in the original release, the Ioniq 5 is the first ground-up EV from Hyundai and sits on the brand’s new E-GMP (Electric - Global Modular) platform. The car is available with either a 58kWh or 72.6kWh battery pack which is similar to the Tesla Model 3 (50kWh and 75kWh), and as either a single (RWD) or dual-motor (AWD) driveline.

 
  2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 - output and performance
RWD short range 125kW / 350Nm / 8.5-second 0-100km/h
RWD long range 160kW / 350Nm / 7.4-second 0-100km/h
AWD short range 173kW / 605Nm / 6.1-second 0-100km/h
AWD long range 225kW / 605Nm / 5.2-second 0-100km/h

The output of an AWD car with the bigger battery is 225kW and 605Nm, and the 0-100km/h sprint is covered in 5.2 seconds.

More crucially, the range for a rear-drive (single motor) car with the larger battery is around 475km."

 

 

obviously going for tesla... then I read the below ... i guess the 20" SUV tyres should have been a give away...

 

 

"The 20-inch wheels on 45-profile (Michelin Pilot Sport 4 SUV tyres) fill the guards well, and while it first seemed similar in size to an i30, the car is much, much bigger.

For some Hyundai-world context, the Ioniq 5 is roughly the width of a Santa Fe (1890mm), the length of a new Tucson (4635mm), the height of a Venue (1605mm) and has a longer wheelbase than a Palisade (3000mm)."

 

stopped reading there ...think ... large SUV... groan..

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18 hours ago, betty boop said:

Hyundai ioniq 5 review - walk around ...

 

and if want the kia take on it ... using the same ionic 5 platform there is the kia EV6....

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2022-kia-ev6-revealed-australian-launch-confirmed-125338.html?trackLink=SMH1

 

apparently in the large SUV class... but apparently ... but as bizarre as sounds its the smallest in that segment ? 

 

"The EV6 GT measures in 4695mm long, 1890mm wide and 1545mm tall, sitting on a 2900mm wheelbase – 60mm longer, 60mm lower and 100mm shorter in wheelbase than an Ioniq 5, but identical in width.

Those dimensions mean it's likely to be officially classified as a large SUV on the Australian sales charts, albeit as one of the smaller offerings in the segment."

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15 hours ago, betty boop said:

 

and if want the kia take on it ... using the same ionic 5 platform there is the kia EV6....

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2022-kia-ev6-revealed-australian-launch-confirmed-125338.html?trackLink=SMH1

 

apparently in the large SUV class... but apparently ... but as bizarre as sounds its the smallest in that segment ? 

 

"The EV6 GT measures in 4695mm long, 1890mm wide and 1545mm tall, sitting on a 2900mm wheelbase – 60mm longer, 60mm lower and 100mm shorter in wheelbase than an Ioniq 5, but identical in width.

Those dimensions mean it's likely to be officially classified as a large SUV on the Australian sales charts, albeit as one of the smaller offerings in the segment."


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/business/hyundai-motor-to-recall-kona-ev-and-other-electric-vehicles-in-s-korea/articleshow/81184848.cms

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, betty boop said:

 

and if want the kia take on it ... using the same ionic 5 platform there is the kia EV6....

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2022-kia-ev6-revealed-australian-launch-confirmed-125338.html?trackLink=SMH1

 

apparently in the large SUV class... but apparently ... but as bizarre as sounds its the smallest in that segment ? 

 

"The EV6 GT measures in 4695mm long, 1890mm wide and 1545mm tall, sitting on a 2900mm wheelbase – 60mm longer, 60mm lower and 100mm shorter in wheelbase than an Ioniq 5, but identical in width.

Those dimensions mean it's likely to be officially classified as a large SUV on the Australian sales charts, albeit as one of the smaller offerings in the segment."

Yeah, another big bus.

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  • 2 weeks later...

well in this big brown land it seems EVs are still a hard sell.... with even tractors ! outselling EVs 2 to 1 :D 

 

while makers are blaming subsidies they seem to ignore their  lack of choice in what offer or their affordability !

 

what is not going to work I dont think is them just sending us their dregs as the article says... the smart makers will realise we are early adopters we can clammer for the latest thing... just as long as makes some sense and can afford....

 

we cant buy what we cant afford and wont buy what we dont want ! :)  build it and they will come ! 

 

am sure all this will change in good time... we will have more range and choices and more affordability. thats the beauty of competition... 

 

https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/not-even-tesla-can-overcome-australia-s-hostility-to-electric-cars-20210414-p57izn.html

Not even Tesla can overcome Australia’s hostility to electric cars

 

Tesla and the electric-car industry generally thrive in the world’s richest nations. Not so in Australia, where even tractors outsell EVs two to one.

More than four decades after Mel Gibson’s super-charged Ford Falcon roared across the country in Mad Max, the car-loving nation is defying a global shift to electrification. Battery-powered vehicles made up just 0.7 per cent of Australia’s new car sales in 2020, while in the UK and European Union, the figure soared to more than 10 per cent.

 

~

 

"Without subsidies, price has become a major obstacle to uptake. Greg Caleo, the Sydney-based head of marketing agency Blue Hat Green, said he’d love an EV - partly to set an example to his daughters - but can’t bring himself to spend almost $80,000 on one. So he’s sticking to his eight-year-old Mercedes. “I’ll drive it into the ground,” Caleo said.

At the end of last year, there were about 50 EV models on the Australian market, though only a handful cost less than their comparable fuel-powered models, government data show. Teslas start at $66,900 for a Model 3 and stretched to $189,990 for a high-end Model S. In the US, a Model 3 goes for $US38,490 ($50,320), while it costs 249,900 yuan ($49,930) in China.

Even Nissan’s little Leaf hatchbacks cost $50,000 in Australia. That’s as much as $16,000 more than the base models of Australia’s top-selling vehicles, the rugged Toyota HiLux and Ford Ranger.

 

While EV sales in Australia may pick up when they cost the same as traditional cars, demand is still projected to be slow. EVs will account for only 18 per cent of new cars in Australia in 2030, though the figure will reach 64 per cent in 2040, BloombergNEF said last year."

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Australia is no different from any other market, everytime there are subsidies that make EVs cost competitive at any early stage of market adoption, sales flourish. Everytime there are no subsidies and there's a price premium at an early stage of market adoption, they stagnate. Every time there's an EV specific tax at an early stage of market adoption, sales fall off the cliff. 

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2 minutes ago, betty boop said:

while makers are blaming subsidies they seem to ignore their  lack of choice in what offer or their affordability !

 

I think that is the key - affordable EVs on par with current cars are said to come within 5 years. Until then, you have only the environmentally conscious buyers...

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22 hours ago, betty boop said:

well in this big brown land it seems EVs are still a hard sell.... with even tractors ! outselling EVs 2 to 1 :D 

 

while makers are blaming subsidies they seem to ignore their  lack of choice in what offer or their affordability !

 

what is not going to work I dont think is them just sending us their dregs as the article says... the smart makers will realise we are early adopters we can clammer for the latest thing... just as long as makes some sense and can afford....

 

we cant buy what we cant afford and wont buy what we dont want ! :)  build it and they will come ! 

 

am sure all this will change in good time... we will have more range and choices and more affordability. thats the beauty of competition... 

 

 

We have no EV policies, a voluntary emissions standard and a small RHD market. 

 

Why would car makers bother to send us anything but dregs and models that they can produce in factories on old equipment requiring no spend/R&D?

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I think/ speculate EV's will be half the price of ICE cars in 2025, 

 

Quote

I think that is the key - affordable EVs on par with current cars are said to come within 5 years. Until then, you have only the environmentally conscious buyers...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/16/ev-battle-heats-up-in-australia-with-plan-to-sell-affordable-chinese-import-for-35000

 

 

Quote

Why would car makers bother to send us anything but dregs and models that they can produce in factories on old equipment requiring no spend/R&D?

 

Not sure this will be the case; as manufacturers will need to meet global consumer and regulatory demand; 

e.g even if you want a AMG V8 you won't be able to buy one new..

 

Mercedes-AMG Has Finally Axed The C63's V8 – For A Four-Pot Hybrid. ... Mercedes is battling hard to reduce its fleet CO2 output before the EU imposes fines for non-compliance with incoming 2021 rules requiring an average of 95g/km.

 

 

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3 hours ago, murrmax said:

Not sure this will be the case; as manufacturers will need to meet global consumer and regulatory demand; 

e.g even if you want a AMG V8 you won't be able to buy one new..

 

Yeah bloody EU and ex EU aka The UK, they've decided that ICE cars have no place on their roads and are doing everything they can to remove them.

 

Expect emissions based road taxes and other charges to skyrocket not to mention outright bans.

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4 hours ago, murrmax said:

I think/ speculate EV's will be half the price of ICE cars in 2025, 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/16/ev-battle-heats-up-in-australia-with-plan-to-sell-affordable-chinese-import-for-35000

 

 

 

Not sure this will be the case; as manufacturers will need to meet global consumer and regulatory demand; 

e.g even if you want a AMG V8 you won't be able to buy one new..

 

Mercedes-AMG Has Finally Axed The C63's V8 – For A Four-Pot Hybrid. ... Mercedes is battling hard to reduce its fleet CO2 output before the EU imposes fines for non-compliance with incoming 2021 rules requiring an average of 95g/km.

 

 

They'll keep producing older models with no further development but higher profit margins to sell in markets like ours so that they can fund development of new EV ranges for other markets. Once they've paid for the tooling it costs little to keep making and dumping them here

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On 15/04/2021 at 9:40 AM, caminperth said:

 

We have no EV policies, a voluntary emissions standard and a small RHD market. 

 

Why would car makers bother to send us anything but dregs and models that they can produce in factories on old equipment requiring no spend/R&D?

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-04-20/australians-want-to-buy-electric-cars-what-is-stopping-us/100071550

 

 

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On 31/03/2021 at 10:24 AM, proftournesol said:

Yes, an ergonomic disaster as well as a fingerprint magnet

 

But a Tesla with no straight ahead speedo IS ergonomic and a huge touch-screen for everything else isn't a fingerprint magnet??? ?

 

Apart from the messy looking seat buttons on the doors I think it looks like a brilliant minimalist luxury interior.

 

My Volvo does most things on a touch-screen and it does attract fingerprints like any screen, but they have a simple press and hold of the "home" button cleaning mode so you can wipe it clean with the supplied micro-fibre cloth... which still does a great job after 30,000kms. Most of the everyday functions are controllable via the steering wheel or a few console based buttons so I can go days without actually touching the screen.

 

XC60-interior-dash-1.jpg?auto=format&cs=

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On 15/04/2021 at 11:40 AM, caminperth said:

 

We have no EV policies, a voluntary emissions standard and a small RHD market. 

 

Why would car makers bother to send us anything but dregs and models that they can produce in factories on old equipment requiring no spend/R&D?

I think we have one of the most diverse car markets in the world and get the latest and greatest from most manufacturers. Up until GM and Ford wiped RHD production, there were very few mainstream makes/models not available in Oz.

 

If there are EV's that we won't get in Oz, it isn't because the manufacturer won't send them, it's because the local distributor doesn't see a feasible business model for it. Hopefully EV's with their fly by wire nature will make RHD production more feasible for Ford and GM in the future.

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4 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

That looks like a Lexus SUV. I thought the BZ moniker would be kept for RWD sports cars

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39 minutes ago, blybo said:

I think we have one of the most diverse car markets in the world and get the latest and greatest from most manufacturers. Up until GM and Ford wiped RHD production, there were very few mainstream makes/models not available in Oz.

 

If there are EV's that we won't get in Oz, it isn't because the manufacturer won't send them, it's because the local distributor doesn't see a feasible business model for it. Hopefully EV's with their fly by wire nature will make RHD production more feasible for Ford and GM in the future.

 

Did you read the article? Nothing to do with local distributors - it re-iterates that it's all to do with EU policies and selling into markets that make the most business sense. 

 

There is no point selling into Australia for most EU manufacturers when they can sell locally and obtain the credits available there.

 

Until we get govt policies that actually direct the market, we will remain a dumping ground for the cheapest/least efficient/most polluting vehicles.

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1 hour ago, blybo said:

I think we have one of the most diverse car markets in the world and get the latest and greatest from most manufacturers. Up until GM and Ford wiped RHD production, there were very few mainstream makes/models not available in Oz.

 

If there are EV's that we won't get in Oz, it isn't because the manufacturer won't send them, it's because the local distributor doesn't see a feasible business model for it. Hopefully EV's with their fly by wire nature will make RHD production more feasible for Ford and GM in the future.

hi blybo, having worked in auto years ago for one of the majors... we were making global cars from back then...easily adapted RHD or LHD.. no issue. most auto giants make world cars... its only some very niche things ie us market centric or something they down have foresight for global....

 

'you are spot on... dont see a feasible business model.....if it were they'd have it here...other is just volumes... they cant make enough ...restriction to batteries covid you name it. we are @rse end really doesnt make a lot of sense to serve us and then provide a disservice to home markets be it in EU or US

 

We are also quite distinct to say europe... our big brown land sparse population etc...also we are quite distinct in that we are not subsidising EU or US car companies... which is what a lot of them are surviving on... and then have cheek to want a subsidy here as well :D because their cars are too expensive for folks to buy... or their range is naff no one buys what they bring :D eg remember leaf...GM/holden volt. 

 

its a free market and that approach makes a lot of sense...when they have product range people want and at a price they can afford am sure people will buy up... i think there is a shortage of cars right now as is ... no matter ICE or EV... in au... car hire companies cant even get their hire cars if they wanted ! the equation will change in time...

 

i also see a cop out car makers saying we dont have infrastructure subsidies etc and hence why dont bring cars here... well it didnt stop tesla or other cars being sold here... yes we are buying more tractors but didnt i read article if wanted a tesla here looking at 2022 ?before get one.. so even with tesla there is a definite shortage...

 

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14 minutes ago, caminperth said:

 

Did you read the article? Nothing to do with local distributors - it re-iterates that it's all to do with EU policies and selling into markets that make the most business sense. 

 

There is no point selling into Australia for most EU manufacturers when they can sell locally and obtain the credits available there.

 

Until we get govt policies that actually direct the market, we will remain a dumping ground for the cheapest/least efficient/most polluting vehicles.

Yes I did. It sounds like a political lobbyist's whinge fest. Why don't you give us something for nothing??? Having said that I do believe in incentives to promote EV sales to help develop a market here.

 

A manufacturer will sell to whichever distributor will place the biggest orders. I hardly feel manufacturers are making the rules about what goes where... except in the case of new models Europe and the US have ALWAYS been the first to have orders fulfilled, nothing new there as they are larger markets.

 

I severely doubt the fact that rollout of VW ID models in Australia being delayed has anything other than supply and demand pressures behind it.

 

In regard to Oz being a dumping ground... do you have examples?

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10 minutes ago, betty boop said:

hi blybo, having worked in auto years ago for one of the majors... we were making global cars from back then...easily adapted RHD or LHD.. no issue. most auto giants make world cars... its only some very niche things ie us market centric or something they down have foresight for global....

 

Sure. However, many US centric models also make a lot of sense in big brown Oz. You don't think Ford Oz would sell a bazillion RHD Bronco's or F150s (Even the EV version) if given the chance?

 

Bronco_2dr_4dr_01-1-1024x576.jpg

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6 minutes ago, blybo said:

In regard to Oz being a dumping ground... do you have examples?

 

This is what the VW guy was saying on the radio the other day.  I think VW global management have handed down some talking points for the local management to regurgitate.  Looks like they have been at least partially successful in creating the desired fake news about it  :) 

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11 minutes ago, blybo said:

Yes I did. It sounds like a political lobbyist's whinge fest. Why don't you give us something for nothing??? Having said that I do believe in incentives to promote EV sales to help develop a market here.

 

A manufacturer will sell to whichever distributor will place the biggest orders. I hardly feel manufacturers are making the rules about what goes where... except in the case of new models Europe and the US have ALWAYS been the first to have orders fulfilled, nothing new there as they are larger markets.

 

I severely doubt the fact that rollout of VW ID models in Australia being delayed has anything other than supply and demand pressures behind it.

 

In regard to Oz being a dumping ground... do you have examples?

 

I think we'll have to agree to heartily disagree on this one. ?

 

 

3 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

This is what the VW guy was saying on the radio the other day.  I think VW global management have handed down some talking points for the local management to regurgitate.  Looks like they have been at least partially successful in creating the desired fake news about it  :) 

 

I'm curious - what would be the positive outcome for VW creating fake news around our lack of government direction or policies on reducing vehicle emissions?

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1 minute ago, caminperth said:

 

 

I'm curious - what would be the positive outcome for VW creating fake news around our lack of government direction or policies on reducing vehicle emissions?

 

They need a reason why they are not bringing the new tech and models to Australia.

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1 minute ago, aussievintage said:

 

They need a reason why they are not bringing the new tech and models to Australia.

 

What do you think is the real reason?

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2 minutes ago, caminperth said:

I think we'll have to agree to heartily disagree on this one. ?

No problem. As an importer in the past I learnt very early on that grand ideals etc go out the window once the money gets slapped down.

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2 minutes ago, caminperth said:

 

What do you think is the real reason?

Lack of feasible business model. Simple.

 

We are a very different market to Europe with very different needs/wants. How many people really need a dual cab ute, yet they the #1 selling category in Oz, despite being pigs to drive. We love the IDEA of exploring the outback, even if a tiny proportion ever do it.

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Just now, blybo said:

We love the IDEA of exploring the outback, even if a tiny proportion ever do it.

 

 

and those of us that do  (me)  are getting more and more annoyed at there being no realistic options, especially when towing around the outback tracks.   I feel pressure to buy electric - fiends telling me "don't buy another diesel car", but it's soooo far from being even an option.

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1 minute ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

and those of us that do  (me)  are getting more and more annoyed at there being no realistic options, especially when towing around the outback tracks.   I feel pressure to buy electric - fiends telling me "don't buy another diesel car", but it's soooo far from being even an option.

How far and wide do you go? I know they are pricey but surely Rivian are making others sit up and look to make cheaper rivals. It's the chicken and egg thing with infrastructure that is the limiting factor. Maybe SS batteries will the answer later this decade. I'm hoping LDR make a reliable EV Defender by the time I'm ready to do my grey nomad'ing sometime around 2035...

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