XMC-1 experiences, anyone?

[Sentient]

Yeah, I'd like to get a little more warmth, and will be trying a similar curve to that (when I get the activitation code for the Full version).

[wim]

For me, the full version of Dirac was undoubtedly the best gain I've ever had in a system for a mere $100. So much so that I don't even use any of the non-Dirac presets any more, not even for stereo SACD.  My (latest) target curve is +4.5db @20Hz, flat from 120 to 3K, -3 at 15K and -6 @ 20K. I us a separate sub target (+3db @20hz, +6 @ 30, flat at 80 and -2 at 120), and crossover at 80hz.

 

Sounds very very good to my ears, although that isn't going to stop me playing around with it.

 

 

(I created an equivalent curve in my Android phone using Poweramp and am loving it to bits as well).

 

 

That is awesome! How did you do that with Poweramp? I'm curious as that's been my digital front end for a while.

[Guest vagabond]

Poweramp only has a graphic equaliser (not a PEQ), but it is just a matter creating a new preset and  giving it the right shape, then adjusting until it sounded right to me. I'm assuming you have the full version. Getting the frequency response where you want it is usually easier with headphones than speakers.

[Guest vagabond]

* XMC-1 can decode DSD audio, but it doesnt handle DoP (DSD over PCM), which means you cant use it as a DSD dac for a computer source.

 

Interested to see what becomes of this: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/743979

[Sentient]

Interested to see what becomes of this: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/743979

It would be cool if they can support it over 1 of the digital inputs. USB would be ideal, then we dont need any additional interface devices, but coax support would be better than nothing- an m2tech would get me by.

[SteveC]

Well I decided to give Dirac LE a go to see errrr........if I can get it to work. I have just installed a couple of tapped horn subs courtesy of "Mr Horns" aka @@atilsley.

 

Subs are at the front of room, inside the mains so basically stereo set up. ME75 as the power amp for now.

Speakers are Orpheus Apollos (latest ones) run by a Naim Nait5Si in AV bypass mode.

 

So only a 2.2 system for now. Room is 4.5m by 5.5m speakers at the narrow end.

 

Here are the graphs. Haha at first I though WTF does it all mean? But i can see that I have a dip at about 60Hz which I think is common but didnt know about the 30Hz peak. Interesting the roll of in the highs above 10K. Could this mean my room may be a bit overdamped as I have a whole lot of acoustic foam around the room?

 

Does Dirac choose the crossover for the subs? It seems to be set at 80 but not sure if the filters override the setting in the menu?

 

Will give it a listen for a while but it sounds alright to me. Absolutely no hint of the subs being there but if I turn off the fronts they are definitely playing. Drivers are new so may not be run in yet.

 

Comments and criticism appreciated.

 

Front speakers:

 

Left sub:

 

Right sub:

 

 

 

[rocky500]

There was some long threads about how the calibration file that Emotiva offered with the LE version and there mic was incorrect. (Not sure if has changed since then)

 

What everyone saw was similar to you and then Dirac to compensate cut the bass and boosted the highs. It sounded to me bass anemic and to hot in the treble after.

I did some testing here with a calibrated Umik mic and it did show this too with their cal file.

 

If you like I can send you the new Calibration file they sent out with the full version or there is a file offered on the forums. I can help to explain how to replace it if you are interested.

Otherwise, I think you ordered the full version? You should have that any time now and that works extremely well.

Edited June 5, 2015 by rocky500

[Guest vagabond]

Does Dirac choose the crossover for the subs? It seems to be set at 80 but not sure if the filters override the setting in the menu?

 

 

Speakers are measured and corrected full range by Dirac, the XMC applies the crossover later, so you don't need to redo the Dirac process if you just want to play with your crossover.

 

Your graphs look pretty good. If you could do something about the 60Hz dip on your mains (placement maybe?) the correction filters will have less work to do, but it's only 10dB so they should still be pretty right. For the moment (until you get the full version) I'd turn the subs up a bit, you'll be happier with the sound I think.  

[Sentient]

Does Dirac choose the crossover for the subs? It seems to be set at 80 but not sure if the filters override the setting in the menu?

I have 1 speaker with a crossover point (the centre speaker), and I am pretty sure I had to manually set it. From memory you need to go into the Dirac/Speaker settings menu, and set your main speakers to "small" and then select the crossover point you want to use. I'd start with 80hz as a baseline.

Might seem like an obvious question, but I just want to double check that you did actually select the "Stereo subs" setting (as opposed to dual mono or mono). That would be pretty important selection in a 2.2 setup.

Also, after doing some reading on fanboy central, I discovered that there is a manual microphone setting you need to make (this wasnt stated in the manuals or anywhere else). Here is the instruction clip,,,,

As a general comment for all, the microphone USB cable that comes with the XMC is a dream !! No more freaking around with mic preamps.

In looking at your pictures, I reckon the subs actually seem to measure pretty well. Dont worry about those big dips above 120hz, they shouldnt be in play. An interesting thing I found was the impulse chart. Click this button,,,,,

It should show you a graph with a single large impulse (for the blue line). If you see 2 large impulses, this indicates a room interaction/reflection reaching the mic. Apparently it's normal to see an extra reflection for subs, and the green 'after' line gives you what Dirac has set/corrected.

With regular music, if the subs arent obviously in play, then they arent drawing attention to themselves (they shouldnt standout, they should blend). I think the key thing is whether the main speakers are trying to play that 30hz bass, when you run a sweep are the drivers in the mains flapping when the sweep starts (i.e. bass region is running) ? It's not clear to me if they should or shouldnt be flapping during a Dirac sweep? It might be worth checking this outside Dirac, after all the corrections and settings are made, then perhaps run a 30hz tone from a test cd and see if the subs are playing it, and the main speakers are (hopefully) idle.

I am playing with the Full version Dirac now, and having lots of fun experimenting with different target curves, I definitely prefer a little more bias towards the bottom end, but I am a sucker for bass.

Edited June 10, 2015 by ozmillsy

[Sentient]

Concert dvd night tonight, and with the system eq'd for the room, i can push the system louder, louder and then some. Things dont get uncomfortable at high volumes.

[Sentient]

Well, I have to say, the XMC-1 with Dirac EQ gets a big thumbs up from me. Due to the improvement the XMC brings, I have rediscovered my enthusiasm for surround sound music. Just brilliant, with all channels dialled in for the room like this. Lack of 96k,,,,, whatever. Geez I'm glad I missed that, as I probably wouldnt have pulled the trigger, but am glad I did.

Running Brothers in Arms 5.1 DVD-Audio as I type, very nice. Time to work through my back catalogue of 5.1 surround music collection.

[Guest vagabond]

Got around to installing 3.1a firmware (apparently 3.1 had some remote control issues).  It seems solid. The thump I got when stopping a DSD stream is gone - I tested it out by changing the setting on the Oppo to DSD, sounds really good. Switched it back to PCM though, because Dirac in stereo mode is noticeably better with my setup. 

 

Everything else seems to be pretty minor, like some options to have a single line on the OLED display. The unit is still, for my use, pretty much perfect.

 

I've also had a bit of a play with the remote app on an Android tablet. Looks nice, but the Harmony app is a bit easier for me since I can customise it and do nearly everything I need to with all of the equipment. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by vagabond

[Guest vagabond]

I have heard that the XMC will be getting an optional upgrade, apparently to allow 7.2.4 using some of the extra zone outputs. I presume it will also need some new processors to handle Atmos etc. 

 

Anyone know anything about this? 

 

 

 

ETA: should have searched the internet better:  http://emotiva.com/xmc-1-enhancements

Edited May 23, 2016 by vagabond

[rocky500]

Maybe even Dirac Unison down the track.

An interesting post from Big Dan himself.

 

Quote

"Hi all,

Happy to see all of the interest and excitement regarding the new upgrade path! 
We're really excited and working hard to bring this out on time... now, don't laugh!! We're doing much better these days!! A couple of notes...

1. We will definitely work to get more than one Dirac preset for the XMC-1.
2. The new DSP engine will have enough H.P. to support Dirac Unison. We don't know all of the details regarding implementation and cost yet, but we'll keep you posted as we know. We'd like to be able to offer it as an option.
3. We'll have enough DSP oomph to do Dirac at 96k on the new engine. Again, we've got to do some negotiating with Dirac on the business side of this, but we'll certainly do our best to make it available. Stand by for advice as we get it.
4. There IS a 16 channel super AVP under development, concurrent with the updated XMC-1. We're not ready to release specific details yet, but you can probably guess the most obvious "must have" features for this baby.

BTW, we do not make any meaningful profit on the DSP upgrade. It's EXPENSIVE!! But we're taking the long view on this side of the business and we're in it for keeps. We're going to do some amazing stuff in the next year or so. We've hit our stride, so to speak. So, hang on!! 

Thanks for the support and keeping faith! More to come soon.
Cheers,
Big Dan"

[Guest vagabond]

Thanks rocky, interesting post. Dan is too often over-optimistic for me to take what he says too seriously, but it would be good if this stuff came through. Having said that, Dirac Unison would be very good, probably quite expensive though I would expect. If I stuck with Dirac Live, having more than one preset would be good, as would 96kHz filters. 

 

TBH, I don't know if any of the above would compel me to shell out for an upgrade, it would come down to whether I could be bothered with Atmos/DTS-X. And even then, with a 16 channel job coming out at the same time, I might prefer to go for it rather than get the current unit upgraded. All comes down to cost/convenience etc. 

[Sir Triode]

I've read that DIRAC is a level up from all the other sound processing solutions but, with DIRAC, one has to upload their measurement files to their servers for processing right?

 

What happens (God forbid) they go bust or they no longer support that version of DIRAC that your receiver uses? Won't it make your receiver a expensive paper weight overnight?

 

I'd rather a system where there is no need to upload files to a foreign server for processing.

[rocky500]

I've read that DIRAC is a level up from all the other sound processing solutions but, with DIRAC, one has to upload their measurement files to their servers for processing right?

 

What happens (God forbid) they go bust or they no longer support that version of DIRAC that your receiver uses? Won't it make your receiver a expensive paper weight overnight?

 

I'd rather a system where there is no need to upload files to a foreign server for processing.

 

I think it is more probable that your current Processor will become absolete as new technology comes out and you will have to buy a new one anyway if you want the latest.

 

Dirac seem to be doing well and I think it is there way to keep there system for paying customers only.

http://www.dirac.com/news/2016/2/11/dirac-the-7th-hottest-it-company-in-sweden

 

In the very unlikely chance it did happen then the XMC-1 still works with your current Dirac setup as it only goes online on the initial setup of a Dirac sweep.

Plus you will have other room corrections to play with now they are updating it.

 

Hasn't audyssey been something that gets outdated? As the new Processors come out they bought out better ones like Multi, XT etc which made the previous processors a little obsolete.

Edited May 25, 2016 by rocky500

[Sir Triode]

Why is DIRAC considered so much better than Anthem's ARC?

[betty boop]

I think it is more probable that your current Processor will become absolete as new technology comes out and you will have to buy a new one anyway if you want the latest.

 

Dirac seem to be doing well and I think it is there way to keep there system for paying customers only.

http://www.dirac.com/news/2016/2/11/dirac-the-7th-hottest-it-company-in-sweden

 

In the very unlikely chance it did happen then the XMC-1 still works with your current Dirac setup as it only goes online on the initial setup of a Dirac sweep.

Plus you will have other room corrections to play with now they are updating it.

 

Hasn't audyssey been something that gets outdated? As the new Processors come out they bought out better ones like Multi, XT etc which made the previous processors a little obsolete.

 

 

hmm if want audyssey xt you would need to go back to something released back in 2008. xt32 has been running for years. infact my previous processor with audyssey xt32 I owned for some 8 years. it received an update to enable audyssey  xt32 update (the current version) a few years into ownership....

 

my current processor uses audyssey xt32. I utilise audyssey pro utilising it as it happens. audyssey pro updates come out regularly you download on the laptop and costs nothing once the license is purchased. my current processor has had two updates of audyssey pro since feb last year the current version picks up 3D audio and the multitude of variations in speaker schemes.

 

with regards processors being updated or out dated ... it is likely for other reasons ... hdmi versions... post processing or some other reason... you cannot hold back the pace of change. it was some miracle I kept using my last processor the 8 years I did.... and its still being used and enjoyed by a family member.

[rocky500]

Why is DIRAC considered so much better than Anthem's ARC?

 

I see Anthem are starting to use Dirac in some Processors too.

http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,av-amplifiers,AV-Amplifiers,avr550.htm

 

Never heard an Anthem but by all accounts they are great.

[Sir Triode]

I see Anthem are starting to use Dirac in some Processors too.

http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,av-amplifiers,AV-Amplifiers,avr550.htm

 

Never heard an Anthem but by all accounts they are great.

 

Arcam isn't Anthem. All Anthem AVRs use their proprietary sound processing ARC. 

[rocky500]

Arcam isn't Anthem. All Anthem AVRs use their proprietary sound processing ARC. 

Whoops!

That 2 for 2 wrong. Audyssey and now Anthem.

 

Arc is supposedly an excellent system too.

Edited May 25, 2016 by rocky500

[Guest vagabond]

I've read that DIRAC is a level up from all the other sound processing solutions but, with DIRAC, one has to upload their measurement files to their servers for processing right?

 

What happens (God forbid) they go bust or they no longer support that version of DIRAC that your receiver uses? Won't it make your receiver a expensive paper weight overnight?

 

I'd rather a system where there is no need to upload files to a foreign server for processing.

 

XMC also has 11-band per channel PEQ, with an interface for Room EQ Wizard. Not Dirac, but any room correction filters you can create with REW can be loaded in. 

 

Why is DIRAC considered so much better than Anthem's ARC?

 

I'm not sure that it is; however, Dirac creates filters that correct both frequency response and impulse response. Maybe ARC does that also, I have no personal experience. What I do know is that Dirac makes a profound difference with my setup. 

 

I believe you can download a 2-channel Dirac Live trial that will demonstrate what it does, never done that myself.

[Guest vagabond]

with regards processors being updated or out dated ... it is likely for other reasons ... hdmi versions... post processing or some other reason... you cannot hold back the pace of change. it was some miracle I kept using my last processor the 8 years I did.... and its still being used and enjoyed by a family member.

 

Yep. When the XMC-1 came out and they were saying it was modular and they could update it for new standards etc I thought they were talking marketing rubbish.  The unit as-is suited my needs, at a price that was decent. When they said they couldn't possible update it for 3D Audio, it pretty much confirmed what I thought about modularity in AV processors. 

 

Imagine my surprise when they said they were actually doing it, plus some of the other things people have been bitching about.  I'll only believe when I see it of course, based on past experience, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.