Guest Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) johnmath, the OP isn't asking 'should I spend more than $10/m on speaker cable'. No, I asked the question, because the OP said he was willing to spend up to $100 per meter. I am trying to understand the motivation so I can participate in the forum. I may well learn something. What is the perceived benefit of a cable that costs more than $10 per meter that cannot be attained by a cable costing less than $10 per meter? (Note we are talking about the cost of the cable, not the cost of a made up assembly. I appreciate that cables made and terminated have other costs.) Edited October 27, 2014 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Metallurgy as in how it is formed, how pure it is & the mechanical extruding of said wire etc. It's all price relevant to the extent of everything takes time & labour so there will be an according cost. Whether it sounds better is your call but my advice is listen & let your ears be the judge, otherwise people with a name like "Nigel" will start taking the piss.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) doubt it was solid core. I think it is - its got a stainless steel sheath on it, doesn't really bend easily. Its "crush" proof and used in for underground mining. Edit: I have purchased 400m of this stuff this year. Nice to install. Edited October 27, 2014 by Peter the Greek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxon Hall Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Why on earth would anyone want to spend more than $10 a meter on speaker cable? Because they can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 No, I asked the question, because the OP said he was willing to spend up to $100 per meter. I am trying to understand the motivation so I can participate in the forum. I may well learn something. What is the perceived benefit of a cable that costs more than $10 per meter that cannot be attained by a cable costing less than $10 per meter? (Note we are talking about the cost of the cable, not the cost of a made up assembly. I appreciate that cables made and terminated have other costs.) To clarify my post the $100 figure was an arbitrary maybe it should have read "a wide variety of cables" Personally I am not fixated whether it be 10 bucks or 50 bucks a metre (heck I have a 2 buck Tandy job interconnect in my system) what I do know from my personal experience is there is a different sound based on materials, not necessarily "better" but different, sometimes 5 bucks cables work sometimes 50 buck ones work in your system, be it rj45, solid core, or whatever.. Sound is first and if it works then pay what your happy to pay, but certainly don't interpret the post my post to suggest that more $$$ = better sound.. That wasn't intent, if it was I would have stated 100-500 pm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 To clarify my post the $100 figure was an arbitrary maybe it should have read "a wide variety of cables" Personally I am not fixated whether it be 10 bucks or 50 bucks a metre (heck I have a 2 buck Tandy job interconnect in my system) what I do know from my personal experience is there is a different sound based on materials, not necessarily "better" but different, sometimes 5 bucks cables work sometimes 50 buck ones work in your system, be it rj45, solid core, or whatever.. Sound is first and if it works then pay what your happy to pay, but certainly don't interpret the post my post to suggest that more $$$ = better sound.. That wasn't intent, if it was I would have stated 100-500 pm Well then, why didn't you say so, that'll be $1k-10k p/m then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Well then, why didn't you say so, that'll be $1k-10k p/m then.... Hahahah bzr good call, true true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 To clarify my post the $100 figure was an arbitrary maybe it should have read "a wide variety of cables" Personally I am not fixated whether it be 10 bucks or 50 bucks a metre (heck I have a 2 buck Tandy job interconnect in my system) what I do know from my personal experience is there is a different sound based on materials, not necessarily "better" but different, sometimes 5 bucks cables work sometimes 50 buck ones work in your system, be it rj45, solid core, or whatever.. Sound is first and if it works then pay what your happy to pay, but certainly don't interpret the post my post to suggest that more $$$ = better sound.. That wasn't intent, if it was I would have stated 100-500 pm I think that was the point of my question. Cable is one passive component in the signal chain between the source and your ears. By definition, cable cannot enhance sound quality, it can only detract from the integrity of reproduction. A cable costing in the region of $10 per meter can connect the signal between the amplifier and the speakers with virtually perfect integrity for nominal cable lengths - at the very least the departure from perfect integrity can be incredibly small compare to other imperfections in the signal chain. Spending more on a speaker cable that *detracts* from sound quality seems to me to be pointless, when that money could have been spent on removing a weakness somewhere else in the signal chain that does significantly improve the integrity of sound reproduction. Sound is "first" after all, isn't it? If you were in Adelaide, you could avail yourself of my blind comparator and make your own objective judgments about speaker cables, something dozens of my past customers have done. The results are 100% consistent, BTW. But I suspect that many people do not actually want to know the truth about cables in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I think that was the point of my question. Cable is one passive component in the signal chain between the source and your ears. By definition, cable cannot enhance sound quality, it can only detract from the integrity of reproduction. A cable costing in the region of $10 per meter can connect the signal between the amplifier and the speakers with virtually perfect integrity for nominal cable lengths - at the very least the departure from perfect integrity can be incredibly small compare to other imperfections in the signal chain. Spending more on a speaker cable that *detracts* from sound quality seems to me to be pointless, when that money could have been spent on removing a weakness somewhere else in the signal chain that does significantly improve the integrity of sound reproduction. Sound is "first" after all, isn't it? If you were in Adelaide, you could avail yourself of my blind comparator and make your own objective judgments about speaker cables, something dozens of my past customers have done. The results are 100% consistent, BTW. But I suspect that many people do not actually want to know the truth about cables in any case. Now this is where the shite hits the fan & those sticky little finger smears start to appear. In reading your above response I would be validated in a reply stating that all cables of equal sound quality regardless of their metallurgy sound the same, which I know is not the case & I don't think you do either as there are an infinite number of variables. Again I rephrase & say it comes down to hearing, liking,working then buying 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) bzr, nowhere did I intentionally imply that cables sound the same! Please re-read the post more carefully. Cables vary widely in how much they degrade the performance of the loudspeaker / amplifier interface. What I do know through countless double-blind comparisons conducted by dozens of people is what I said in the post above. When you take out the "expectation effect" by removing the knowledge of what cable is being listened to, it certainly does come done to hearing and liking. It is just that the experience is a lot more prosaic than you think, or perhaps than you want to believe. Edited October 28, 2014 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I was once told that some jaycar mic cable and and brass plugs are all that is needed for a good IC, boy oh boy did that IC suck....smeared, congested and veiled was the best description This thread has turned into the good old objectionist v subjectionist type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) bzr, nowhere did I intentionally imply that cables sound the same! Please re-read the post more carefully. Cables vary widely in how much they degrade the performance of the loudspeaker / amplifier interface. What I do know through countless double-blind comparisons conducted by dozens of people is what I said in the post above. When you take out the "expectation effect" by removing the knowledge of what cable is being listened to, it certainly does come done to hearing and liking. It is just that the experience is a lot more prosaic than you think, or perhaps than you want to believe. Okay, can we both beat our heads against the brick wall on the same side then, it's lonely on the other side. In other words, same result different approach as mentioned in my post.I was using your post as a general reference, not digging at you. Edited:> telling someone what they can & can't hear is ludicrous. Edited October 28, 2014 by groot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest myrantz Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Cable and it's merits are worth discussing in the great debate section IMO... The physicists, electronic engineers/experts, economists and know it all can suss all their agreements/disagreement out. Just give OP some suggestions and leave it at that.. I'm sure the mods are watching, and they must be groaning at yet another re-run. Anyway, wrt speaker cables.. Been there done that.. Turns out by just spending on some Ribontechs I realised I had wasted so much time, money and effort before in "experimentation"...DIY is good and fun, but sometimes it's unnecessary to re-invent the wheel... YMMV though as this cable will not work on all setup, but it sure works perfect with mine.. Try and borrow 'em and listen to various materials for at least 50 hrs.. If that don't work then go DIY, or DIY and replicate a commercial sample.. Whatever floats.. Money is meant to be spent, not saved, or invested. One can always earn more money, but nobody I know can earn more time. Spending money = time saved = more time to enjoy and that's the best investment ever in my books... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 bzr, nowhere did I intentionally imply that cables sound the same! Please re-read the post more carefully. Cables vary widely in how much they degrade the performance of the loudspeaker / amplifier interface. What I do know through countless double-blind comparisons conducted by dozens of people is what I said in the post above. When you take out the "expectation effect" by removing the knowledge of what cable is being listened to, it certainly does come done to hearing and liking. It is just that the experience is a lot more prosaic than you think, or perhaps than you want to believe. With all respect I don't know how a question about online places to buy speaker cable turned into the agenda pushing of your personal belief on speaker cables (which for the record I respect). Sure I should have clarified what I meant more by indicating a price range (which I have subsequently have done) but still I can't help but feel your first post was more a rhetorical statement rather then a question, with the intention of raising a "snake oil" debate.. As I already stated I am not implying higher cost equals better sound, as earlier mentioned I have a cheap interconnects and a 170 buck phono pre into what a lot would consider a high end system, why? Cause I personally found no improvement by spending more, yet in other components I have... As I stated earlier I personally find lots of cables sound different not better but different, if I found a cable that was 10 bucks that delivered the sound then great if it was 500 and I'm in a position to pay that then I will... Maybe it's the Colour that is added to the path that appeals, similar to pre amps, I am under no illusion (and this goes for other components as well) that you have to spend X to achieve a certain level and I am most aware of that when it comes to cables, probably more so then anything.. I have no doubt that physiologically people's brains are impacting by perception of product X and that can largely be due to marketing and the associated cost which I'm sure your blind tests have shown, but by bringing it up in my thread it leads to implying that I fall into that category.. Their are gems in both ends of the spectrum and I've heard enough low cost Hifi that has been thoughtfully setup (room treatment etc) that blow away gear that cost 10x.. Again I believe cables can sound vastly different, whether I choose a cheap one or expensive one is Neither here no there.. But I can assure you it will be chosen cause it subjectively sounds better to me not cause it costs more... Hifi is a very personal thing what's right for one is wrong for another, enjoy the music, spend what you are comfortable and most of all relax, most of us work dam hard for our $$$ and should enjoy our hobby, whatever ends up floating your boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) With all respect I don't know how a question about online places to buy speaker cable turned into the agenda pushing of your personal belief on speaker cables (which for the record I respect). With respect, you asked for recommendations. I asked why you would want to spend more money than what you would benefit from. And then I recommended spending money on things that make a real difference, because it would give you better value in sound improvement for the $ spent. You "work dam hard for you $$$" so surely you want to get the most from it. Why do you have a problem with that? Sure cables sound vastly different, but the price has no relationship to performance once you get above a few tens of dollars per meter, because what sets the performance of speaker cable is not expensive in either engineering or materials terms. It's applied physics, the same applied physics that makes everything else in your audio chain work. I don't have an issue with spending money on nice things. Mag wheels on a car don't make it faster, but I wouldn't have a car with steel wheels. I still wouldn't kid myself about what mag wheels will or won't do. Edited October 28, 2014 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 You asked for recommendations. I asked why you would want to spend more money than you would benefit from. And then I recommended spending money on things that make a real difference, because it would give you better value in sound improvement for the $ spent. You "work dam hard for you $$$" so surely you want to get the most from it. Why do you have a problem with that? Sure cables sound vastly different, but the price has no relationship to performance once you get above a few tens of dollars per meter, because what sets the performance of speaker cable is not expensive in either engineering or materials terms. It's applied physics, the same applied physics that makes everything else in your audio chain work. I don't have an issue with spending money on nice things. Mag wheels on a car don't make it faster, but I wouldn't have a car with steel wheels. I still wouldn't kid myself about what mag wheels will or won't do. And that's my point I never implied that more $$$ equals better nor under any illusions... I think we should leave it there as its nothing more then counter productive and off topic.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Personally would only use Stealth Dream Royale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Personally would only use Stealth Dream Royale mk2 or 3???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Personally would only use Stealth Dream Royale I'll pay off the holden instead thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 ... yeah i heard you went cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You mean you paid off the Holden speaker cables? http://www.globalsources.com/si/FL/Ningbo-Holden/6008842629613/Homepage.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) You mean you paid off the Holden speaker cables? http://www.globalsources.com/si/FL/Ningbo-Holden/6008842629613/Homepage.htm Hmm... 2015 Ningbo 4x4 with sports pack. Seems to work both ways Edit: didn't work with the 1215 date typo, stone wheels and all Edited November 19, 2014 by ortofun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treschooks Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 3 length of Cat5 braided and split at the end into solid/colour and white/colour , then, soldered to spade terminals, seem to do a good job on my music, all those little solid core conductors individually insulated and twisted in nice pairs make for good RF rejection , low R and little capacitance.. If you dont like the home made look and you want fancy, then slide the whole thing into some nylon expandible braid (preferably some loud bright colour) a few bits of heat shrink and they look like a million bucks but they don'ts cost the earth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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