Grumpy Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Looks fantastic, but are you concerned about the 'frame' ringing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heman_ Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Looks fantastic, but are you concerned about the 'frame' ringing? I was thinking something similar. Have you experimented with dampening the frame or is it not necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 That is a fine looking piece of stripped back industrial design. I'm sure its going too sound wonderful/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Macfarlane Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Andy , have you thought about using Aerolam as PT did with their original tt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Thanks Duc - indeed it is! I am meeting up with Steve soon, to take delivery of a new motor (seeing as I destroyed the old one! ). It shouldn't take much work to get it going after that. Andy Prey tell........How did that happen??? ....ever thought of using a 2 platters???....one on top of the other??? ...with the immediate access to the decks internals as you have Andy....... only issue I can see is arm height but I'm sure you will find away around the issue.... Just a thought!! ATBTase. Edited October 26, 2014 by Tasebass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Looks fantastic, but are you concerned about the 'frame' ringing? I was thinking something similar. Have you experimented with dampening the frame or is it not necessary? Grumpy & heman_ ... I chose aluminium because (from prior experience) I know it has much better self-damping abilities than steel. Plus Linn use aluminium in their top chassis - the $5K Keel. Admittedly, this has some cunning CNC work to minimise internal vibrations ... but I am theorising the holes I cut in the channels pieces will have a similar effect? Sure, damping the chassis sounds like it would be a good idea - but I am wary of the reports that said that damping the original pressed-steel LP12 subchassis ... took all the 'life' out of the LP12. Andy , have you thought about using Aerolam as PT did with their original tt? Weeell, this would produce several problems, Gordon, IMO. For good sound, there needs to be maximum stiffness in the structure between the bearing (ie. the platter) and the arms. This is why the Keel sounds much better than the original LP12 subchassis (with those 3 pissy little screws on the armboard - which stopped the LP12 from having the ultimate in detail recovery ... but was necessary because of the ringing problems of the pressed-steel subchassis). Would areolam be as stiff as 45x25x3mm U-channel? I wonder. And side-on ... I suggest it's pretty ugly (fine if the cross-section is hidden by a plinth! )? Whereas my satin black powder coated U-channel looks attractive (weeell, I reckon, anyway! ). Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Prey tell........How did that happen??? ....ever thought of using a 2 platters???....one on top of the other??? ...with the immediate access to the decks internals as you have Andy....... only issue I can see is arm height but I'm sure you will find away around the issue.... Just a thought!! ATBTase. Weeelll, Tase - I don't know about you ... but every now and again, I do something stooopid! I had a pulley turned by Duc which was held onto the motor spindle by 3 grub-screws. I decided that it would be better to have a hole drilled in the pulley which was slightly smaller than the motor spindle - so I would then put it in the oven to expand it (and the hole) and the hole would then fit over the motor spindle and, when the pulley cooled, it would lock onto the spindle. Well, that was the theory ... after putting the pulley into the oven, it didn't expand as much as I had anticipated ... and I decided I needed to 'tap it' with a hammer to get it to go onto the motor spindle. Unfortunately, I tapped a bit too hard ... and broke the bottom motor bearing. A $180 mistake! :lol: Re. using 2 platters ... what is the point of this? Sure, easy to organise (I could have Duc machine me, say, a 3mm Delrin platter to fit over the LP12 outer-platter) and the height problem is easy to fix ... but what benefit does this deliver? Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Weeelll, Tase - I don't know about you ... but every now and again, I do something stooopid! Re. using 2 platters ... what is the point of this? Sure, easy to organise (I could have Duc machine me, say, a 3mm Delrin platter to fit over the LP12 outer-platter) and the height problem is easy to fix ... but what benefit does this deliver? Regards, Andy OOOH Yes Andy I certainly do.............. ............Also get ideas my Head that wont go away!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 OK, another pic. Yes, I did get it to the playing stage - but that took over 4 hours work, after I picked up the motor! :lol: The height of the platter above the chassis is slightly different in v2 - compared to v1 - plus the (temporary) chipboard flooring base I am using atm is only 18mm thick (compared to the 20mm perspex base) ... so this meant I had to do some fiddling, to get the belt to stay on the inner platter. But all done now! So I now have to do final measurements before ordering: a new perspex base and cover, and spring bases & motor pod from Duc. Regards, Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cafe67 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Very funky well done ☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 SkeletaLinn is clearly the best name for this special, but given what's missing, an option is The Son-non-deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 SkeletaLinn is clearly the best name for this special, but given what's missing, an option is The Son-non-deck. Well, that is certainly a very relevant name ... but, but, but: Being 'sprung' and with belt drive, I think it retains the best of what an LP12 delivers - while leaving out 2 components which impact the sound (plinth & top-plate). Plus, I have been able to get the weight distribution a lot more equal than an LP12 with any Linn arm. The term 'Sondek' was coined for the original LP12 - 40 years ago. The current, top-spec LP12 differs from this in many respects (eg. one-piece aluminium subchassis & armboard vs. pressed-steel subchassis & MDF armboard and DC motor instead of AC motor). So I think of mine as just as much a part of the Sondek family as a new LP12 is, in comparison to the original. Regards, Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdDrawerDown Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Adversely impact, as compared to positively impact, based on you removing said elements. the lineage has been discussed with a Linn Sondek and the various branches and forks thereof. But how does it compare to the Ariston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 the lineage has been discussed with a Linn Sondek and the various branches and forks thereof. But how does it compare to the Ariston? Ooooh ... now we're getting into contentious territory, Murray! I haven't owned an Ariston and not even sure I've even heard one? But perhaps one could say that an LP12 is just an Ariston ... but made by someone else and taken to the next level of engineering? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Andy.... If you are going to run 2 belts off the one Cirkus inner platter . would it not make sense to machine a groove in the platter to prevent belt over lap..?? How are you going to prevent this..?.....you got me intrigued.... ATBTase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Andy.... If you are going to run 2 belts off the one Cirkus inner platter . would it not make sense to machine a groove in the platter to prevent belt over lap..?? How are you going to prevent this..?.....you got me intrigued.... ATBTase You need to think outside the box, Tase! Sure, grooving the outside of the inner platter would be a great solution (when using O-ring belts). But almost impossible to do, I would think? Sooo ... you groove the pulley. Duc has already made me a pulley which has 3 grooves - and I tried it out on my 24v (Rega) Premotec motor, with 2 belts, about a year ago. It worked fine - except the belts I used were too thin ... and stretched while the platter was getting up to speed, causing judder. (If you spun the platter a bit by hand, this made the judder go away.) So I got him to make up a 'crowned' pulley, similar to the Linn one - which is what I've been using since, with the flat Linn belt. To use the grooved pulley, I need to find a supplier of O-ring belts which are 2 or 3 mm in diam and the length of the Linn belt (or slightly longer, as I can easily move the motor away from the spindle). Unfortunately, I am still looking. Once I find them, I may be able to fit a pulley which has 4 grooves, under the outer-platter ... so 2 belts to each pulley. And thank you for resurrecting this thread. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Djb and I spent a very pleasant few hours on the weekend drinking some lively red wine and listening to Andy's system. I probably didn't pay enough specific attention to the TT and cant add much to the technical aspect but everything sounded wonderful and without reservation I say its the most appealing system I've heard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Static belt position no platter... Active belt position outer platter in place.... The belt (s) can only be fitted with the outer platter off, How are you going to overcome the belts position and/ or ensure the belts are in the correct position once the outer platter is in place and rotating.......( hope this makes sense ).... ATBTase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetube Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 The belt (s) can only be fitted with the outer platter off, How are you going to overcome the belts position and/ or ensure the belts are in the correct position once the outer platter is in place and rotating.......( hope this makes sense ).... ATBTase. Hi Tase. that is easy enough PM me and I will let you know how . Duc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Static belt position no platter... pic Active belt position outer platter in place.... pic The belt (s) can only be fitted with the outer platter off, How are you going to overcome the belts position and/ or ensure the belts are in the correct position once the outer platter is in place and rotating.......( hope this makes sense ).... ATBTase. Sure it makes sense, Tase. (You seem to forget I used an LP12 from 1979 to 2013. ) With the round-section belts held in place by the grooves on the pulley, there is less up-and-down movement of the belts on the perimeter of the inner-platter. Having 2 belts works fine (and they don't fall off the bottom of the inner platter!) ... it remains to be seen how 3 belts will go - and, ideally, 4 (2 belts each, on 2 pulleys). Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Just voicing my opinions/concerns as there ain't a whole load of space under the outer platter when in situ for extra what ever you want to put there. Mind you its a Skeletal design so you might have extra clearances etc... I'm sure you Guys have worked it all out so till wait till the photo's get posted...... Duc have you announced to the world your latest acquisition...... Tase... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetube Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Just voicing my opinions/concerns as there ain't a whole load of space under the outer platter when in situ for extra what ever you want to put there. Mind you its a Skeletal design so you might have extra clearances etc... I'm sure you Guys have worked it all out so till wait till the photo's get posted...... Duc have you announced to the world your latest acquisition...... Tase... Hi Tase. no problem. my solution can work with normal Linn table too . no i haven't made any announce about that yet may even join the Linner forum for that . Duc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 How are you going to overcome the belts position and/ or ensure the belts are in the correct position once the outer platter is in place and rotating ATBTase. Here's the sort of thing I am aiming for, Tase: Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) OK got it now. How will you suppress the extra EMF if you are using AC motors so close together?? ATBTase. Edited April 23, 2015 by Tasebass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Here's the sort of thing I am aiming for, Tase: 4-belt TT drive.png Andy One pulley could have top and bottom belts, the other take the middle two.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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