Using 'Gel' glues on your vinyl records

[andyr]

1 minute ago, April Snow said:

@andyr Yes I am thinking a second attempt could help too - maybe I did not press it in enough into the grooves on side 2 - was a little nervous as I am never sure how hard to press on a record so do tend to be light handed with all things record cleaning. Maybe another go at it with more pressure may help get deeper in to the grooves, after all this is a record from 1970.

 

Yes, I would think pressure is good. 

 

1 minute ago, April Snow said:

But I would have thought that the liquid would seep in to the grooves on it's own?

 

RV has a very high viscosity - so will not seep into the grooves as easily as, say, water does - or more so, alcohol.  Hence the need for pressure, with RV! 

 

1 minute ago, April Snow said:

 

Thank you for the offer of the US though - just likely not cost effective to send the album there and back to you in Melbourne - but very kind of you - (thank you)

 

 

Hopefully, someone local will raise their hand. 

 

It seems to me, though, that you are currently in a key position re. the effectiveness of RV. 

 

1.  You can do it a 2nd time with RV - this time pressing it into the grooves harder - and report back whether this improved side 'B'.  If it did - then that's great! 

 

2.  Or you have the LP cleaned in a us tank.  There are only 2 outcomes, having this done:

    a.  it makes no difference to Side 2.  This will be good news for the RV fanbois!    (Although this could be because that side has been overplayed - and damaged.)

    b.  or it makes Side 2 entirely playable.  In which case, the effectiveness of RV has been shown up.

 

 

Andy

 

[stevoz]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

Only "Last Ditch" if you don't have:

a.  a wet/vac RCM, or

b.  a us tank, April!

 

BTW, I suggest the annulus you showed in a prior post - having peeled it off an LP (excellent work, btw - I guess you are able to peel an orange in a perfect spiral!  ) - does not, IMO, show distinct 'grooves'.  IOW, the RV - or IPA glue, for that matter - has not got right down to the bottom of the grooves.

 

Andy

 

@April Snow Ignore this 'bottom of the groove' fantasy! Sorry Andy.....I can't not say anything.

 

The accepted width range for a human hair is 60 to 80 microns.....the average depth of an LP groove is 28 microns

 

Ask yourself....."do I really doubt that a semi viscous fluid can't reach the bottom of a groove whose depth is around a half to a third the thickness of a human hair, after being massaged into said grooves?" I think not....

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not doubting the excellent 'groove deep' LP cleaning qualities of an RCM, especially an ultrasonic version.....but to believe (and promote) that RV can't get to the bottom of an LP groove after massaging is borne from either extreme bias or loyalty to an opposing method.

 

You do whatever you like @April Snow , even follow up with a wet clean, that's fine.....but please don't enter a fantasy land in regard to non RCM cleaning methods. RV is foolproof......which is why Andy doesn't use it.

 

PS: You don't even have to massage hard, just firmly enough that your fingers don't actually touch bare vinyl..

Edited January 8, 2020 by stevoz

[April Snow]

32 minutes ago, stevoz said:

@April Snow Ignore this 'bottom of the groove' fantasy! Sorry Andy.....I can't not say anything.

 

The accepted width range for a human hair is 60 to 80 microns.....the average depth of an LP groove is 28 microns

 

Ask yourself....."do I really doubt that a semi viscous fluid can't reach the bottom of a groove whose depth is around a third the thickness of a human hair, after being massaged into said grooves?" I think not....

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not doubting the excellent 'groove deep' LP cleaning qualities of an RCM, especially an ultrasonic version.....but to believe (and promote) that RV can't get to the bottom of an LP groove after massaging is borne from either extreme bias or loyalty to an opposing method.

 

You do whatever you like @April Snow , even follow up with a wet clean, that's fine.....but please don't enter a fantasy land in regard to non RCM cleaning methods. RV is foolproof......which is why Andy doesn't use it.

 

PS: You don't even have to massage hard, just firmly enough that your fingers don't actually touch bare vinyl..

@stevoz and @andyr Ok I did only massage lightly in circular motions as the directions stated on the bottle and indeed my fingers did not touch the bare vinyl at all. I found the consistency of the product was easy to do this as it kind of creates a barrier to avoid touching the bare vinyl whilst easily covering the LP  (quite an incredible product really) - but hard to describe which is why I included the photos. I found the 20 mils was great for this as it gave a generous coverage without over seeping towards the label etc.

 

Very interesting both of your comments - so shall consider those carefully. 

I did spin clean after the process just to be sure I removed everything.

 

I have been comparing from You Tube other 1975 versions of "Love of My Life" (as it is a quiet ballad and crackles more noticeable) so good to compare with my own copy just done with the RV.

Mine actually 30% sounds better than this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3rp0ryCxUs

 

So makes me wonder, are my expectations unrealistic? Is this result (or even better) actually a good outcome for a vintage record? Is this typical of how a 70s record would sound? The LP itself has not one scratch on it that is visible  just the crackles mostly on side 2 which would have been played the most due to Bohemian Rhapsody being on that side.......

 

Remember, I am still learning the hobby and all that it encompasses - I just worry about noisy records harming my stylus that has now cost me nearly as much as some of the diamonds in my jewellery box - hahahahahahahaha

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by April Snow

[zenikoy]

In my experience, a Spin Clean would probably put some noise back onto the vinyl after using revirginiser.

 

A wet wash and vacuum is what may possibly improve on the revirginiser. Spin Clean is a step backwards.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by zenikoy

[stevoz]

17 minutes ago, April Snow said:

@stevoz and @andyr Ok I did only massage lightly in circular motions as the directions stated on the bottle and indeed my fingers did not touch the bare vinyl at all. I found the consistency of the product was easy to do this as it kind of creates a barrier to avoid touching the bare vinyl whilst easily covering the LP  (quite an incredible product really) - but hard to describe which is why I included the photos. I found the 20 mils was great for this as it gave a generous coverage without over seeping towards the label etc.

 

Very interesting both of your comments - so shall consider those carefully. 

I did spin clean after the process just to be sure I removed everything.

 

I have been comparing from You Tube other 1975 versions of "Love of My Life" (as it is a quiet ballad and crackles more noticeable) so good to compare with my own copy just done with the RV.

Mine actually 30% sounds better than this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3rp0ryCxUs

 

So makes me wonder, are my expectations unrealistic? Is this result (or even better) actually a good outcome for a vintage record? Is this typical of how a 70s record would sound? The LP itself has not one scratch on it that is visible  just the crackles mostly on side 2 which would have been played the most due to Bohemian Rhapsody being on that side.......

 

 

 

 

 You're expectations are not unrealistic. Results for both RV and RCM's are of course limited by any physical degradation of the LP. In regard to your first effort, I would say you have got as good a result as you're going to get.....but try a follow up wet clean if you want by all means.

 

I have bought "NM" second hand LP's, which sound crackly and have me considering seeking a refund then cleaned them with RV and suddenly they are NM. I bought a 40+ year old 'Ozarks' album that was graded as 'like new' which sounded maybe EX but after RV, I struggle to hear any noise. It is probably now the quietest 2nd hand bought LP I own.

Edited January 8, 2020 by stevoz

[crisis]

Interesting observations and methods. I've used clear gum and pva craft glue with equally amazing results. I use a plastic spatula to lightly spread and have not bothered with "massages" 

I place numerous tabs as I find that sometimes things don't peel as one would like. I do run the records through the knosti after as I want to be sure glue is removed.

[April Snow]

4 minutes ago, stevoz said:

 You're expectations are not unrealistic. Results for both RV and RCM's are of course limited by any physical degradation of the LP. In regard to your first effort, I would say you have got as good a result as you're going to get.....but try a follow up wet clean if you want by all means.

 

I have bought "NM" second hand LP's, which sound crackly and have me considering seeking a refund then cleaned them with RV and suddenly they are NM. I bought an 'Ozarks' album that was graded as 'like new' which sounded maybe EX but after RV, I struggle to hear any noise. It is probably now the quietest 2nd hand bought LP I own.

Yes this is what happened to me with this album, was sold as a NM but it crackled so bad I called it "Night at the Coco Pops" - it was one of the first LPs I brought before I even brought my first Turntable so I did not return it to the seller as the disc looked MINT  by a visual grading. By the time I got to play it was too late, but I loved it for the nostalgia anyway, being a Queen fan.

 

RV has cleaned it up a lot though, and I am suspecting that side 2 is just going to be not as good as side 1 as it would have been played the most.

It was more of an experiment to see how the RV product worked and what results it may achieve.

 

But having played several You Tube videos from 1975 of this album I am thinking that this may be a normal way for an album to sound so to get some improvement is a good start.......................shall try and find a decent repress of it though sadly most are not getting glowing reviews on Discogs so far........

 

I might re-do side 2 though, just to give it another chance

 

 

[April Snow]

11 minutes ago, crisis said:

Interesting observations and methods. I've used clear gum and pva craft glue with equally amazing results. I use a plastic spatula to lightly spread and have not bothered with "massages" 

I place numerous tabs as I find that sometimes things don't peel as one would like. I do run the records through the knosti after as I want to be sure glue is removed.

If I was using glue I would use a spatula too- that is a super idea  & makes total sense !!

I also spin cleaned afterwards as I was paranoid in case I missed a spec of RV.

 

RV is not sticky or tacky like glue as it is more of a gel - kind of reminds me of clear hair gel - it is easy to wash off the fingers and clean up, it also stays wet for a little time so you have time to massage the whole record. 

 

I watched some You Tube videos prior to using the product and some people were putting the records on to an old Turn Table or Lazy Susan to spin the record as you massage, but that is totally unnecessary - I just laid the record flat on an old paper sleeve and turned the sleeve as I worked around - also made it totally easy to pick up the LP when done and move it off the kitchen bench to a spot to dry off.

 

[April Snow]

28 minutes ago, zenikoy said:

In my experience, a Spin Clean would probably put some noise back onto the vinyl after using revirginiser.

 

A wet wash and vacuum is what may possibly improve on the revirginiser. Spin Clean is a step backwards.

 

 

You may be right - I will re-do side 2 tomorrow and not wash it after removal and see if it improves - might as well keep the experiment going !!

[stevoz]

37 minutes ago, April Snow said:

If I was using glue I would use a spatula too- that is a super idea  & makes total sense !!

I also spin cleaned afterwards as I was paranoid in case I missed a spec of RV.

 

RV is not sticky or tacky like glue as it is more of a gel - kind of reminds me of clear hair gel - it is easy to wash off the fingers and clean up, it also stays wet for a little time so you have time to massage the whole record. 

 

I watched some You Tube videos prior to using the product and some people were putting the records on to an old Turn Table or Lazy Susan to spin the record as you massage, but that is totally unnecessary - I just laid the record flat on an old paper sleeve and turned the sleeve as I worked around - also made it totally easy to pick up the LP when done and move it off the kitchen bench to a spot to dry off.

 

I use the platter off my old TT......it doesn't spin of course, as it's just sitting on a table but it's good because the outer edge of the LP is well clear of the table surface and it also stays there to dry.

 

In regard to RV residue being left on the LP surface, it has only happened to me once....a tiny spec on the runout grooves of Nightclubbing and it just sounds like a scratch.....I have left it there as, far from damaging the stylus, I figure it's actually cleaning it!

 

FWIW, I wouldn't use a spatula to apply.....a skin soft massage is perfect.

[t_mike]

I spin the record and use one of those 1cm wide artists' brushes. Spin one way, then the other. This massages it into the groove rather than across the top of it.

[April Snow]

3 minutes ago, t_mike said:

I spin the record and use one of those 1cm wide artists' brushes. Spin one way, then the other. This massages it into the groove rather than across the top of it.

That is a good idea too .........

[crisis]

4 hours ago, stevoz said:

FWIW, I wouldn't use a spatula to apply.....a skin soft massage is perfect.

Its a delicate operation but the spatula does not contact the record. Just enough pressure to spread the glue and the viscosity keeps it from coming in contact.

[April Snow]

Small update.........

 

I did side 2 again with the RV on Night at the Opera - and more of an improvement - it is playable for sure to what it was, but I did Spin Clean after - just can't help myself - terrified I might miss a spot of RV if I don't.............

 

I also RV treated Bette Midler "The Rose" sound track - as I had played that with just a Spin Clean then RV'd it - and 50% improvement on that too after the RV treatment, in fact VERY happy with the results on that album 

 

So yes, the product works, easy to use just a long drying wait time.

I did only do one side at a time too - so that makes it longer - but it was no big deal really to wait.

 

Hope this might help someone else if they are considering buying the product in the future 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by April Snow

[Hydrology]

The only thing I use for cleaning records is Melody Mate (RCM) and Distilled Water (US)

 

 

A big investment, for an even bigger investment.

 

 

[Rustee]

On 08/01/2020 at 6:42 PM, crisis said:

I place numerous tabs as I find that sometimes things don't peel as one would like.

Next time you do a glue clean keep one of the peelings and cut it into strips about 2-3cm wide. It works perfectly.

I only put one tab on now and have never had one break. Put a few drops on the edges to stop it shrivelling up.

It was recommended by @Chigurh a few pages back it works a treat 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Rustee

[eyeofnewt]

Thanks to the OP and all contributors to this thread.  I have had great success with the Studymate glue method.  Patience in leaving the glue to be 100% dry is the best advice I have to offer.  One question I had though, other than a wet wash immediately afterwards, does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with the static charge the records have once the glue has been peeled?  thanks again.

Edited August 29, 2020 by eyeofnewt

[Candyflip]

4 hours ago, eyeofnewt said:

Thanks to the OP and all contributors to this thread.  I have had great success with the Studymate glue method.  Patience in leaving the glue to be 100% dry is the best advice I have to offer.  One question I had though, other than a wet wash immediately afterwards, does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with the static charge the records have once the glue has been peeled?  thanks again.

Other than a wet wash (which I recommend), try an anti-static cloth.

Cheap and easy.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5Pcs-Cleaning-Cloth-Anti-Static-Vinyl-Record-Microfiber-Portable-Dust-Remove-CD/383689791807 

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5X-Anti-Static-Cloth-Microfiber-Towel-Record-Cleaning-Tool-Lint-Free-Cleaner-LP/402354587753 

[t_mike]

The best methods I have tried are (in no particular order);

 

1- A carbon fibre record brush used before each and every needle drop.

 

2- A Zerostat gun used before placing the record on the platter (on platter causes a pop through the speakers).

 

3 - One of those record cleaning brushes that tracks the record from a balanced arm. Only use the type that has a carbon fibre brush and an earth wire to the phono earth on your amp.

[Tonyrancid]

$12.99 from Aldi

[Esoterica]

Thanks to all for this thread and @eyeofnewt for linking it.

 

Very timely, as I was listening to some older vinyl of mine yesterday and there were some very noisy records. AND I happen to live in a tiny town, but have a variety store that sells Mont Marte products. I'll be surprised if they don't have the glue.