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ACCUPHASE WARNING

 

YOU MUST READ THE FINE PRINT ON THE ACCUPHASE WEB SITE BEFORE BUYING ANY ACCUPHASE PRODUCT THEN INTERPRET THAT IN THE WAY ACCUPHASE & THEIR DISTRIBUTORS DO.

 

“Once Accuphase determines that a product has been used outside it's authorized country, that product will not be accepted for warranty or for service.â€

 

Seems innocent enough…what has that got to do with me…here is my example…

 

After months of investigation, I wanted a Quality Tuner to add to my system. I finally settled on an Accuphase T 109 V rated number 1 by the Tuner Information Centre web site @ http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/shootouts.html

 

I purchased a top quality Accuphase T 109 V from Japan, I would rate it 8/10 solely due to age. It came in its original box, with original remote & power cord. I purchased the Accuphase T 109 V in the full knowledge that I would need to invest additional funds to convert it to Australian conditions. A highly respected Australia Tuner Specialist was asked to complete the conversion. He contacted the Australian Accuphase Distributors, ARENA DISTRIBUTORS in Perth, to obtain a copy of the Service Manual.

 

ARENA DISTRIBUTORS response was “Accuphase products are supported only in their country of purchase. I am precluded from assisting you. Your client should contact the vendor of the product in Japan on any requirements he may have.â€

 

ARENA DISTRIBUTORS was again asked to assist & their subsequent responses were “Like many other companies, Accuphase do NOT offer support on products except in original country of purchase. I support my own sales and customers, and have had personal involvement with Accuphase since 1983"…and…"No 2nd hand units from overseas and parallel imported units allowed to have our official technical support. This is our basic business principles" and…"Perhaps the client might make demands from seller of unit.â€

 

I tried the direct approach, firstly to ACCUPHASE JAPAN who referred me back to ARENA DISTRIBUTORS. I contacted ARENA DISTRIBUTORS direct suggesting I send the unit to ARENA DISTRIBUTORS, pay a reasonable fee & have them modify the Accuphase T 109 V to Australian conditions…

 

ACCUPHASE & ARENA DISTRIBUTORS response was “Accuphase have asked me to advise that support not available on this product ex factory. You need to contact the vendor. I refer you to last sentence on link that you need to refer toâ€â€¦ Once Accuphase determines that a product has been used outside it's authorized country, that product will not be accepted for warranty or for service.

 

ACCUPHASE & ARENA DISTRIBUTORS have refused to assist in any way. The Tuner has been returned to Japan for sale & this exercise will cost me in excess of $2000 as a direct result of ACCUPHASE & ARENA DISTRIBUTORS adopting spurious, out-dated, anti-competitive & trade restrictive practises specifically designed to artificially justify inflated retail prices & limit supply.

 

BE WARNED…IF YOU PURCHASE A NEW ACCUPHASE PRODUCT & SELL IT OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY OF PURCHASE…YOU MAY BE LIABLE FOR NON DISCLOSURE TO THE PURCHASER & ALL SUBSEQUENT COSTS… & THIS INCLUDES ALL THE INDIVIDUAL COUNTRIES IN EUROPE…CANADA & AMERICA…ALL INDIVIDUAL COUNTRIES IN SOUTH AMERICA.

 

BUT NEVER…NEVER…NEVER PURCHASE A USED ACCUPHASE PRODUCT…AS MY EXPERINCE DEMONSTRATES...YOU WILL HAVE NO RECOURSE WHATSOEVER.

 

PLEASE USE THIS EXAMPLE TO DEMONSTRATE TO ACCUPHASE & THEIR DISTRIBUTORS THAT IN A 2014 GLOBAL ECONOMY OUT-DATED, ANTI-COMPETITIVE & TRADE RESTRICTIVE PRACTISES WILL NO LONGER BE TOLERATED.

 

TELL ACCUPHASE & THEIR DISTRIBUTORS TO COMPETE FAIRLY IN A 2014 WORLD ECONOMY & TREAT ALL ACCUPHASE OWNERS…NEW OR USED…EQUALLY…REGARDLESS OF RACE, COLOUR, CREED OR LOCATION.

 

FROM LITTLE THINGS…BIG THINGS GROW…MAKE A DIFFERENCE…YOU HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE THIS…

 

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ACCUPHASE WARNING   YOU MUST READ THE FINE PRINT ON THE ACCUPHASE WEB SITE BEFORE BUYING ANY ACCUPHASE PRODUCT THEN INTERPRET THAT IN THE WAY ACCUPHASE & THEIR DISTRIBUTORS DO.   “Once Accup

@ I can just about accept that for modern equipment. It's common across industries and, for instance, if you buy Nikon gear offshore you're out of luck in your local country if it breaks. It's antiqua

Yep…@al & @pchan… guilty as charged….I did not do the research Al did as I misguidedly believed that as the unit was out of warranty…was not a current model & no threat to any current

Just as a matter of interest...what mods were necessary (apart from voltage, if you weren't happy to use a step-down) that your technician couldn't figure out or implement without contacting Accuphase/Arena?  Would they require specific parts available only from Accuphase or its agents?

Edited by bronal
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It also means if you purchase a product here in Aus.....good luck if you decide to immigrate!!

 

i'll certainly give a plug to companies like Naim who will service any of their products from anywhere!! 

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[moderator post]rob, I've moved this thread of yours out of the product review section as sorry this is not a product review, more a brand warning/advisory and cant think where appropriate apart from probably the general hifi section[end moderator post]

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Have you already sent it back? If not wait a minute.

I have two imported used Accuphase products (integrated and SACD player) that have been modified to change the voltage. It was a VERY simple process of moving wires from the transformer.

I think Japanese FM is broadcast on a slightly difference frequency band but you should still be able to pick up most stations with the Japanese tuner.

I feel for you but your mistake was talking to Arena Distributors. Best to ignore them when it comes to these Japanese models.

Many service manuals are available on the net. It's just a matter of searching.

You are correct saying buyer beware though. Be prepared.

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What a load of rubbish. Agree with Tasebass, forget buying Accuphase if you have any inkling of moving country.

 

It's not as if you're asking for a warranty repair. Surely not too much to ask for a repair/service manual?? 

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It also means if you purchase a product here in Aus.....good luck if you decide to immigrate!!

 

i'll certainly give a plug to companies like Naim who will service any of their products from anywhere!! 

 

And Quad, and SME (as per recent example).

 

BTW, do you mean emigrate? :confused:

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Have you already sent it back? If not wait a minute.

I have two imported used Accuphase products (integrated and SACD player) that have been modified to change the voltage. It was a VERY simple process of moving wires from the transformer.

I think Japanese FM is broadcast on a slightly difference frequency band but you should still be able to pick up most stations with the Japanese tuner.

 

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't like to say anything because I know nothing about tuners.

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What a load of rubbish. Agree with Tasebass, forget buying Accuphase if you have any inkling of moving country.

 

It's not as if you're asking for a warranty repair. Surely not too much to ask for a repair/service manual?? 

 

 

What if you were a Japanese businessman being transferred to Australia and you brought your Accuphase gear with you.  Would Arena still give you the bum's rush?

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Seems a pretty standard response to me. You didnt want to pay the local price which includes support services, and now you want their help.

 

Cant pick and choose when to rely on a distributor, take the good with the bad. 

 

Edit, my bad, i see this is a classic bit of gear. That does make it a pain in the arse and i would have thought the distributor would supply the necessary documents

Edited by RockandorRoll
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Have you already sent it back? If not wait a minute.

I have two imported used Accuphase products (integrated and SACD player) that have been modified to change the voltage. It was a VERY simple process of moving wires from the transformer.

I think Japanese FM is broadcast on a slightly difference frequency band but you should still be able to pick up most stations with the Japanese tuner.

I feel for you but your mistake was talking to Arena Distributors. Best to ignore them when it comes to these Japanese models.

Many service manuals are available on the net. It's just a matter of searching.

You are correct saying buyer beware though. Be prepared.

 

Bugger me...talking to the Nationwide distributor about the product he distributes is a mistake...sadly yes it is...but only if you are in the know...I obviously was not...

 

No the issue was not local voltage...that is relatively easy...

 

They were digital tuning...Japan uses a very narrow band width...& retuning to suit AUS broadcast conditions...NOTE these are two different things...

 

Yes there are some manuals available on the net...but not for a T 109 V...I spent more than 24 hours over a period of 2 weeks trying to get a resolution that worked...

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I will paste here part of what I wrote in another thread....

 

If you have been unfortunate enough to purchase a used Accuphase product & the seller DID NOT alert you to the Accuphase policy of only supporting a product in the country where it was sold new...you are farked...through no fault of your own...the information is not widely known & is certainly not advertised publicly by Accuphase for obvious reasons. ACCUPHASE & ARENA DISTRIBUTORS hide behind a Warranty Policy disclaimer whilst  interpreting & extending that policy to all used equipment where warranty is no longer applicable.

 

The are good laws & bad laws...there are good company policies & bad company policies...this is an old, out-dated business policy the is a bad company policy...it adversely affects the consumer & Accuphase owners alike...the only way to change a bad law or policy is to start a ground swell of opposition..it may as well be me.

 

What really surprises me is that it adversely affects Accuphase reputation in the market place. Most companies value their brand name & vigorously protect it...whereas this current Accuphase policy does the exact opposite.

 

There is a simple policy change that can & should be adopted...it will not adversely impact gross margins for new Accuphase products yet provide an avenue for existing & potential used Accuphase owners to access parts & service...whilst protecting Accuphase propriety engineering. In fact, in some countries, Accuphase distributors have been smart enough to "passively" adopt the policy change.

 

There is no reason why the same should not happen in Australia & should increase sales whilst offering an additional avenue for revenue generation...this is not rocket science.

Edited by Rob181
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What if you were a Japanese businessman being transferred to Australia and you brought your Accuphase gear with you.  Would Arena still give you the bum's rush?

 

Aha...here is the rub...

 

If you are in the know...that is...aware of the Accuphase policy it how it is applied by some (but not all) Accuphase distributors...Mr Businessman would trot along to his Japanese distributor & say...I am moving to AUS please convert to local voltage & change FM settings...etc ....etc...

 

Mr Distributor says...Yes Sir...you are the original owner & this is the country you have purchased it in...we will make the changes...for the appropriate fee...all is good...

 

However if Mr Businessman is unaware of said policy & brings his Accuphase equipment to AUS then asks Arena Distributors to make the necessary changes...Mr Businessman is farked...if Arena Distributors is consistent in the application of the Accuphase policy... 

 

So the question is...does Arena Distributors adopt a subjective implementation of Accuphase policy...or a rigid, not negotiable objective one...

 

My experience has been the latter...& that makes no business sense whatsoever...

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“Once Accuphase determines that a product has been used outside it's authorized country, that product will not be accepted for warranty or for service.â€

 

So, both the local distributer and the parent company in Japan refuse to supply a copy of the service manual. Since you were not attempting to return the product for warranty or service, and haven't actually used the product yet, one could argue that you haven't actually breached the condition.

 

You were only requesting a copy of the manual, and according to their own conditions they should only refuse service once you have used the product, which you obviously wouldn't be able to do until the conversion had been done.

 

You would probably need to engage a lawyer to argue the case though.  :(

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I can understand both sides,

I can not understand. if you were prepared to pay for the service,why not do it

Or are they so overworked with au items they don't need the work,?

On this sort of forum,a report like this only damages the brand and the Aussie dealer,

As there would be many who have the money to purchase such a product,but now would think twice,as they should,

It's a shame the product is great but the policy is s+++***t

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Conceptually this is akin to buying a grey market Japanese car -  a Nissan Skyline for example - that was never sold in Australia.  I doubt whether any Nissan dealer would have a bar of servicing such a vehicle.  But of course there is a comprehensive aftermarket support network for them and parts availability isn't a problem.

 

One thing intrigues me though: if bandwidth and tuning are the problems then they would presumably apply to all tuners imported from Japan to other countries.  I wonder whether the OP can get help from a tuner forum (if such a thing exists).

Edited by bronal
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Conceptually this is akin to buying a grey market Japanese car -  a Nissan Skyline for example - that was never sold in Australia.  I doubt whether any Nissan dealer would have a bar of servicing such a vehicle.  But of course there is a comprehensive aftermarket support network for them and parts availability isn't a problem.

 

One thing intrigues me though: if bandwidth and tuning are the problems then they would presumably apply to all tuners imported from Japan to other countries.  I wonder whether the OP can get help from a tuner forum (if such a thing exists).

 

The car industry changed long ago...LOTS of consumers...lots of votes...smart resellers...

 

The are a couple of FM Forums...the T109 V I bought is already famous...or is that infamous...& the Accuphase brand name has copped its justly deserved negative feedback...

 

I tried everything I know...short of sending @@kajak12 around to extract the info in his usual subtle manner...

Edited by Rob181
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Thank you AD...

 

I have...looked into my crystal ball & seen a sign...& I take full responsibility for it...

 

Arena distributors are best avoided. This also applies if you are looking for a competitive price on new gear. They apply the "Australia tax" at a rate as high or higher than many other resellers.

They have been the importers of Accuphase gear for 40 years or so but fail to understand the market as it exists today. They feel they can control the market by alienating anyone who chooses not to buy from them. They continue to extend that to importers of used gear as well.

You only have to look at Pricejapan to see what Accuphase products cost in Japan and compare those prices to those quoted by Arena.

People buy new Accuphase gear from Pricejapan or directly from Japanese dealers and feel it is worth the risk to not have any warranty because of the huge savings in initial purchase price.

 

Marketing models from the 1980's are not relevant today...move with the times or die...

 

Edited by Rob181
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This post is less than 12 hours old & the support from SNA members is just sensational...

 

The are good laws & bad laws...there are good company policies & bad company policies...this is an old, out-dated business policy the is a bad company policy...it adversely affects the consumer & Accuphase owners alike...the only way to change a bad law or policy is to start a ground swell of opposition.

 

FROM LITTLE THINGS…BIG THINGS GROW…MAKE A DIFFERENCE…YOU HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE THIS…

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It is quite disappointing to see this sort of behaviour from a reputable company and their Australian distributor. The report is appreciated Rob.

FWIW, I can understand a company refusing warranty claims in these circumstances, but refusing support is counter-intuitive. It degrades resale opportunity and therefore value, thereby devaluing their product. Audio Research maintain product support irrespective of resale, and just look at how valued and respected their products are second hand...

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Hmm, accuphase have the following basic manual for that tuner on there website as a PDF.  Probably not the more detailed service manual you were after.

 

This document mentions 3 FM ranges, but doesn't make it clear that FM range can be modified on any particular model.

 

http://www.accuphase.com/cat/t-109ven.pdf.

 

 

And I could only find the full service manual for the T100 model

Edited by Demondes
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Except from most (but not all) of the WA team....

 

Where is @@Tasso...@@kajak12...@....@nyrantz...@@SteveM...@@loki65...@@MarkT...@@THOMO...@@Pops110

 

If this was your business...would you treat your customers like this...

 

 

 I did try to help you directly with your problem by PM which you seem to have forgotten already. This included supplying you with a service manual of a different model at your request. Since we exchanged PM's I have made enquiries on your behalf including one to a previous vendor of a T-109V who claimed to know how to change the voltage.  If you don't want this just say the word.

 

You can use a 100V step down transformer while investigating  the voltage change- that's what I did for a few months when I bought an Accuphase DP-700 SACD player from Japan. The only real issue you have to operate  the unit perfectly in Australia is the de-emphasis setting.  Bandwidth is not an issue because all Accuphase tuners sold in Japan cover all international frequencies.  For de-emphasis Australia uses 50μSec and Japan and USA use 75.  With earlier tuners this was easy because there is usually a switch on one of the circuit boards giving you a choice of 50μs and 75μs. The later models change it by a sequence of key presses. I bought the T-1000 manual from some mob in Russia and I have sent an email to them to see if they can supply a T-109V manual too.  Notwithstanding that, I would suspect there are people on FMtunerinfo who may know how to change the de-emphasise settings if we don't get anywhere with the line of enquiry.

 

In terms of voltage changes, the later Accuphase tuners  have  an option to change voltage either by re-configuring an existing matrix of connections ( with spade lugs) or by soldering jumper connections. If you could send a photo of the unit with the  underneath plate removed, we might have a  chance of figuring it out. 

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 I did try to help you directly with your problem by PM which you seem to have forgotten already. This included supplying you with a service manual of a different model at your request. Since we exchanged PM's I have made enquiries on your behalf including one to a previous vendor of a T-109V who claimed to know how to change the voltage.  If you don't want this just say the word.

 

You can use a 100V step down transformer while investigating  the voltage change- that's what I did for a few months when I bought an Accuphase DP-700 SACD player from Japan. The only real issue you have to operate  the unit perfectly in Australia is the de-emphasis setting.  Bandwidth is not an issue because all Accuphase tuners sold in Japan cover all international frequencies.  For de-emphasis Australia uses 50μSec and Japan and USA use 75.  With earlier tuners this was easy because there is usually a switch on one of the circuit boards giving you a choice of 50μs and 75μs. The later models change it by a sequence of key presses. I bought the T-1000 manual from some mob in Russia and I have sent an email to them to see if they can supply a T-109V manual too.  Notwithstanding that, I would suspect there are people on FMtunerinfo who may know how to change the de-emphasise settings if we don't get anywhere with the line of enquiry.

 

In terms of voltage changes, the later Accuphase tuners  have  an option to change voltage either by re-configuring an existing matrix of connections ( with spade lugs) or by soldering jumper connections. If you could send a photo of the unit with the  underneath plate removed, we might have a  chance of figuring it out. 

 

Tasso, that is a very informative post and no doubt it will be very helpful to those in need of the info it contains, but surely, all audio manufacturers should be forced to supply full service manuals, on demand. One shouldn't have to go to some obscure Russian website to obtain service manuals which should be freely available.

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Tasso, that is a very informative post and no doubt it will be very helpful to those in need of the info it contains, but surely, all audio manufacturers should be forced to supply full service manuals, on demand. One shouldn't have to go to some obscure Russian website to obtain service manuals which should be freely available.

I am simply trying to help the best way I know how. I personally don't like the distributor's attitude one bit and this is the best way to make sure they don't win.

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 I did try to help you directly with your problem by PM which you seem to have forgotten already. This included supplying you with a service manual of a different model at your request. Since we exchanged PM's I have made enquiries on your behalf including one to a previous vendor of a T-109V who claimed to know how to change the voltage.  If you don't want this just say the word.

 

You can use a 100V step down transformer while investigating  the voltage change- that's what I did for a few months when I bought an Accuphase DP-700 SACD player from Japan. The only real issue you have to operate  the unit perfectly in Australia is the de-emphasis setting.  Bandwidth is not an issue because all Accuphase tuners sold in Japan cover all international frequencies.  For de-emphasis Australia uses 50μSec and Japan and USA use 75.  With earlier tuners this was easy because there is usually a switch on one of the circuit boards giving you a choice of 50μs and 75μs. The later models change it by a sequence of key presses. I bought the T-1000 manual from some mob in Russia and I have sent an email to them to see if they can supply a T-109V manual too.  Notwithstanding that, I would suspect there are people on FMtunerinfo who may know how to change the de-emphasise settings if we don't get anywhere with the line of enquiry.

 

In terms of voltage changes, the later Accuphase tuners  have  an option to change voltage either by re-configuring an existing matrix of connections ( with spade lugs) or by soldering jumper connections. If you could send a photo of the unit with the  underneath plate removed, we might have a  chance of figuring it out. 

 

Tasso has been a gentleman & has tried to assist me with the Accuphase...I sincerely thank him for all his help & everyone should be aware that if Tasso can assist...he will & there is plenty of evidence of that in the various threads...

 

In another post I also thought he was supporting Arena Distributors (well that is how I read the post anyway)...but he has since cleared up that misunderstanding. I guess it is the way we say things...I would swat the fly...Tasso would shoo it away.

 

I have never met Tasso but would much rather get the opportunity to do so when next I am in WA...than let a misunderstanding jeopardise that happening... 

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Thanks for sharing Rob, it's this sort of information that makes SNA a community and not just a forum website.  So disappointing from what is commonly viewed as a quality brand.

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