betty boop Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 The industry supported by Standards Australia have launched a website that has some very pertinent information for people in the industry, consumers and particualrly it has implications for DIY'ers and worth a read. The particular aspects relating to DIY would concern where utilising 3rd party power supplies, USB powered devices, USB power supplies, 230V AC related equipment etc. To quote Monkeyboi (Alan) whom suggested this sticky, this website and links are "essential reading for all those involved in DIY that encompasses the building or modifying of mains powered devices. Many DIY kits involve building even pre-assembled power supplies, use plug packs or operate from typical USB 5 volt adapters." With a recent fatality http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/67453-warning-on-usb-chargers it is come clear it is very much case of buyer beware. But also the ramifications go further if you actually DIY/make something and sell it on...keep in mind you are then the manufacturer and its upto you to ensure it complies ... the industry supported by standards australia has a website "Does it comply" and is here to try and help... http://www.doesitcomply.com.au there is a section to help identify conforming product http://www.doesitcomply.com.au/what_should_you_do/identifying_compliant_product and there is a webform to report to the electrical regulator a non compliant item http://www.doesitcomply.com.au/what_should_you_do/report-non-compliant-product also sections on who is liable, whether a contractor, supplier or wholesaler http://www.doesitcomply.com.au/who_is_liable/wholesalers_suppliers oh and incase you wondered since july last year if you actually grey import something it is your responsiblity to make sure it is compliant...and yep as an individual you will also be liable if you resell the item. the fines for individuals are quite significant as are the criminal sentences for selling non compliant product. anyways I do hope this is of some help, the work the industry is doing here to help is invaluable and if even just saves one injury or fatality its well worth it ! What can and can't do around the house when comes to electricity, http://news.domain.com.au/domain/diy/what-not-to-diy-with-plumbing-and-electrical-20120619-20ld9.html *** basically beyond changing a light bulb…forget about it … get an electrician for anything related to mains electricity as it can kill you ! *** ps great link here from DVP http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/79823-inside-an-apple-charger/ shows the difference between a cheap counterfeit and an apple charger ! and why he cheap non compliant chargers is a potential accident waiting to happen ! the worrying thing which doesn't help is the counterfeit is complete rip off externally so you are none the wiser. Probably only re enforces reason to buy from reputable sources this kind of thing. Stereonet article - Does your Power cable comply, http://www.stereo.net.au/news/does-your-power-cord-comply have also added a good note below from ampish.. as picks up on some very important points.... On 11/01/2020 at 7:47 PM, ampish said: I have just read through this thread and as an electrical design engineer that deals with AS3000 (to name one of many local and international standards), compliance, legal requirements etc etc more or less on a daily basis I am a little aghast at some of what I read here. I am not going to go into endless technical details, it seems my key message would end up being lost. Firstly, the issue is not compliance, it is safety. Surprisingly there is more to safety than compliance. Any electric shock is a bad one, but even worse when someones house burns down and a whole family is lost, which is actually somewhat more likely. And, regardless of an real or percieved compliance achieved, there are a number of legal aspects to consider. 1) "Duty of Care" and "Competency" - it would very unlikely that any kind of investigation is going to consider someone who modifies or constructs an apliance of any kind that leads to harm was comptetent to even know if they had discharged their dury of care without some kind of recognised qualification or certification. If you believe otherwise, you may well be right, but you will probably lose a year or more of life (plus costs, lost earnigns stress etc) going through the legal process to argue the point, as a minimum. I know a fellow engineer who had exactly his occur due to a missing MEN link on a construction job, that he had specified and drawn, but the installer messed up. Engineer was not even on site at the time. 2) Duty of Manufacturers - look up your states "Code of Practice" (there is a national one now, mostly) - manufacturers have very specific obligations related to design, construction, informing the user of risks etc etc etc. Many OEM's often fall short in some areas, large and small. I doubt virtually any DIYers would meet the requirments. So none of this matters if there is no incident. But if there is, it will matter and awful lot, and lives could be ruined even if no fatality occurs. I know a lot of guys like tube amps, I just don't bother myself. Best plan overall is to wherever possible stick to under 50V (this is he simplest blanket rule) and use double insulated power supplies that plug into a standard outlet, ready to go from the manufacturer. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 9 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) A rule worth remembering, if you selling a piece of mains powered equipment to ANYBODY, once you've demonstrated the the item is working, cut the mains plug off before you hand it over. It is then the buyers responsibility to have a suitably qualified and certified person to fit a new plug and then the responsiblity for the safety of the product falls on that person. It is important you cut the cord outer insulation and all and not remove the plug leaving bare wire ends. keep the severed plug and cord, you may need it as evidence if things go badly. Edited June 28, 2014 by Number 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Interesting link in the http://www.doesitcomply.com.au/article/dial-the-source-on-emc-compliance about LED downights effecting Wifi and other equipment. I am planning to use them in a theatre room soon. Anyone have any problems at all with LED lighting? What about dimmers for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 9 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Interesting link in the http://www.doesitcomply.com.au/article/dial-the-source-on-emc-compliance about LED downights effecting Wifi and other equipment. I am planning to use them in a theatre room soon. Anyone have any problems at all with LED lighting? What about dimmers for them? Most LED downlights are powered by a switched mode supply. it is the RF interference from the supply that can cause problems with WIFI. I don't kwow what the standard is now, but when I building gear for the US long ago, if it had a clock running at any more than 1400Hz, it required FCC testing. the regs for AU & NZ are alot stricter now and CE is a total nightmare. I always check the website of of the producer to see that the certifications are all in order, UL , CE, FCC etc. If they don't show them I assume they don't have them! Edited June 28, 2014 by Number 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoglette Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) A rule worth remembering, if you selling a piece of mains powered equipment to ANYBODY, once you've demonstrated the the item is working, cut the mains plug off before you hand it over. Or you could just send it directly to landfill and cut out the (now likely extremely annoyed) middleman. Edited June 29, 2014 by thoglette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub Sonic Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Cutting the lead off and keeping it is a good idea, but also bend all three pins so that there is no chance of someone (children etc) accidentally plugging the lead into an outlet and getting a shock off the end of the cord. Note that this plug also has uninsulated pins, another reason to remove the plug. Regards, SS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 All the DIY I built, I built it so its safe for me to use and everyone else. However saying that, I have never sold a DIY that involves a 240V plug to anyone period. Once I am done with a project its on the shelf for parts reasignment for future use. I have given DIY projects for other family members to use, but I make sure thats its safe for everyone to use as long it is used correctly. I also make sure I use all the correct AS or EU standard parts including wiring and plugs, I never use something where an insurance company will refused to come the party especially US style plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Most LED downlights are powered by a switched mode supply. it is the RF interference from the supply that can cause problems with WIFI. I don't kwow what the standard is now, but when I building gear for the US long ago, if it had a clock running at any more than 1400Hz, it required FCC testing. the regs for AU & NZ are alot stricter now and CE is a total nightmare. I always check the website of of the producer to see that the certifications are all in order, UL , CE, FCC etc. If they don't show them I assume they don't have them! I have recently strategically replaced all compact fluros and incandecent to LEDs and have not notice any change in the Wifi performance or TV reception. The WiFi modem is also close to 5 X Philips 13W LED lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 9 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) Or you could just send it directly to landfill and cut out the (now likely extremely annoyed) middleman. Better to face an annoyed middle man than a Coronial Enquiry followed by Civil Damages Proceedings. Edited June 30, 2014 by Number 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valvedude Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) The industry supported by Standards Australia have launched a website that has some very pertinent information for people in the industry, consumers and particualrly it has implications for DIY'ers and worth a read. The particular aspects relating to DIY would concern where utilising 3rd party power supplies, USB powered devices, USB power supplies, 230V AC related equipment etc. To quote Monkeyboi (Alan) whom suggested this sticky, this website and links are "essential reading for all those involved in DIY that encompasses the building or modifying of mains powered devices. Many DIY kits involve building even pre-assembled power supplies, use plug packs or operate from typical USB 5 volt adapters." With a recent fatality http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/67453-warning-on-usb-chargers it is come clear it is very much case of buyer beware. But also the ramifications go further if you actually DIY/make something and sell it on...keep in mind you are then the manufacturer and its upto you to ensure it complies ... the industry supported by standards australia has a website "Does it comply" and is here to try and help... http://www.doesitcomply.com.au there is a section to help identify conforming product http://www.doesitcomply.com.au/what_should_you_do/identifying_compliant_product and there is a webform to report to the electrical regulator a non compliant item http://www.doesitcomply.com.au/what_should_you_do/report-non-compliant-product also sections on who is liable, whether a contractor, supplier or wholesaler http://www.doesitcomply.com.au/who_is_liable/wholesalers_suppliers oh and incase you wondered since july last year if you actually grey import something it is your responsiblity to make sure it is compliant...and yep as an individual you will also be liable if you resell the item. the fines for individuals are quite significant as are the criminal sentences for selling non compliant product. anyways I do hope this is of some help, the work the industry is doing here to help is invaluable and if even just saves one injury or fatality its well worth it ! i recommend to DIY builders to have any thing electrical that is built to be test and tag. a test and tag is preformed to asses if the A unit is electrical safe and also to check for leakage to ground . i have a test and tag license so any this i build or repair is tested for electrical safety witch comply s with new zealand and Australia AS/NZS 3760 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3760 Edited July 22, 2014 by valvedude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valvedude Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Cutting the lead off and keeping it is a good idea, but also bend all three pins so that there is no chance of someone (children etc) accidentally plugging the lead into an outlet and getting a shock off the end of the cord. Note that this plug also has uninsulated pins, another reason to remove the plug. Regards, SS cut the plug off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valvedude Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 A rule worth remembering, if you selling a piece of mains powered equipment to ANYBODY, once you've demonstrated the the item is working, cut the mains plug off before you hand it over. It is then the buyers responsibility to have a suitably qualified and certified person to fit a new plug and then the responsiblity for the safety of the product falls on that person. It is important you cut the cord outer insulation and all and not remove the plug leaving bare wire ends. keep the severed plug and cord, you may need it as evidence if things go badly. better still pay the $15 $20 buck have a test and tag done the you can be a happy camper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valvedude Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Most LED downlights are powered by a switched mode supply. it is the RF interference from the supply that can cause problems with WIFI. I don't kwow what the standard is now, but when I building gear for the US long ago, if it had a clock running at any more than 1400Hz, it required FCC testing. the regs for AU & NZ are alot stricter now and CE is a total nightmare. I always check the website of of the producer to see that the certifications are all in order, UL , CE, FCC etc. If they don't show them I assume they don't have them! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3760 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub Sonic Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 cut the plug off This IS the cut off plug, which is now potentially lethal by itself due to exposed conductors unless the pins are bent in the manner shown. Regards, SS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hochopeper Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 better still pay the $15 $20 buck have a test and tag done the you can be a happy camper Would be good to have a few links to some test and tag guys in metro areas that are happy to do domestic work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoglette Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 This IS the cut off plug, which is now potentially lethal by itself due to exposed conductors unless the pins are bent in the manner shown. Or you could throw it in the garbage. Along with the broken glasses/bottles, rotten food, rusty nails and out of code medicines. Less effort too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 At work they test & tag and even hose's like air lines ,steam hose & N2 hoses need to be tested . Question guys . Test & tag is carried out to check for faults but isn't it a different testing procedure for testing a product if it complies to relevant law's . Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hochopeper Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 At work they test & tag and even hose's like air lines ,steam hose & N2 hoses need to be tested . Question guys . Test & tag is carried out to check for faults but isn't it a different testing procedure for testing a product if it complies to relevant law's . Cheers Test and tag certifies that the device is safe from electrical perspective ... that the operator will not be killed. It does not test the emissions of the device - RF radiation or conducted emissions that may effect nearby or connected equipment. The test and tag is at least affordable for low volume gear. The compliance tests are expensive and sometimes destructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The test and tag is at least affordable for low volume gear. The compliance tests are expensive and sometimes destructive. To get my amps cert ,I was looking at $2K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hochopeper Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) To get my amps cert ,I was looking at $2K That's a lot more than the 20 or 30 mentioned above. What's scope of testing for $2k? Edited July 23, 2014 by hochopeper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That's a lot more than the 20 or 30 mentioned above. What's scope of testing for $2k? Don't know I didn't go ahead . I think full safty testing and "C" ticked .Maybe worth it if I was going build and sell as a boutique manufacturer , like the word Boutique . My tech mate tests all my gear for my personal use . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankn Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 A rule worth remembering, if you selling a piece of mains powered equipment to ANYBODY, once you've demonstrated the the item is working, cut the mains plug off before you hand it over. It is then the buyers responsibility to have a suitably qualified and certified person to fit a new plug and then the responsiblity for the safety of the product falls on that person. It is important you cut the cord outer insulation and all and not remove the plug leaving bare wire ends. keep the severed plug and cord, you may need it as evidence if things go badly. I think you mean a DIY piece of equipment? I cannot see the necessity to take this action for all equipment. It may be I'm reading your statment out-of-context? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub Sonic Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Or you could throw it in the garbage. Along with the broken glasses/bottles, rotten food, rusty nails and out of code medicines. Less effort too. You're right in general, but I have 3 young kids, there's no knowing what they will get up to :-) Regards, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffnutz Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 A rule worth remembering, if you selling a piece of mains powered equipment to ANYBODY, once you've demonstrated the the item is working, cut the mains plug off before you hand it over. It is then the buyers responsibility to have a suitably qualified and certified person to fit a new plug and then the responsiblity for the safety of the product falls on that person. It is important you cut the cord outer insulation and all and not remove the plug leaving bare wire ends. keep the severed plug and cord, you may need it as evidence if things go badly. And don't forget to wear your Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (AFDB). :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Good Vibe Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Don't know I didn't go ahead . I think full safty testing and "C" ticked .Maybe worth it if I was going build and sell as a boutique manufacturer , like the word Boutique . My tech mate tests all my gear for my personal use . You got mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts