My humble system - now with added Polymax XHD!

[cyclingsteve]

Very Nice Pete....Ive got a Technics SL 1500 it was my dads and is about thirty years old. It has only been services regularly and has now got a Shibata Cartridge. Im quite interested in how you feel the Dennon cartridge is performing?

Anyway lovely system and nice nook to hide away in and listen to your music!!!!!!

 

 

[pete_mac]

Thanks mate. I very rarely listen to vinyl and I'm by no means a connoisseur, so to my ears it performs great!

[faxcomp]

Very nice looking room and system Pete.

 

I had to make sure my wife did not see your room.

 

I'd never hear the end of it.

 

It's so neat and clean.

Edited June 4, 2014 by faxcomp

[pete_mac]

A bit of an update...

 

Whilst I was happy-ish with the PMCs, I felt that the imaging and bass wasn't as good as I had expected. I realised from day dot that this room was pretty average acoustically as there are minimal soft furnishings in the room at present. There's a bit of slap echo, and I feel there is just a but too much reverb and smearing of the sound stage. The bass was a tad wooly at times. The PMCs were clearly being let down by the room. Coupled with my new audio-gd DAC, I wasn't satisfied with the sound.

 

SOOOOO... with a tight budget in mind, I decided to tackle the room in a simple and cost-effective way. I managed to grab two charcoal/black 2400mm x 1200mm x 50mm sheets of Polymax XHD direct from Martini Industries at Ingleburn, south-western Sydney (15 minutes from where I live). 

 

Martini had two sheets left over from a recent job, and were kind enough to cut each big panel into 3 x 1200mm x 800mm panels on their industrial cutter for ease of transport. All six of the smaller sheets fitted into the back of my Mazda 6 with the seats folded down, meaning I didn't need to stuff around with a trailer or van.

 

The pricing was dirt-cheap too - it worked out at $20 per 1200mm x 800mm panel! At this price, there's no excuse for NOT grabbing some and seeing what it does to your room. If anyone needs contact details, Ben Mentiplay is the bloke I dealt with at the Ingleburn office.

 

I chose the 50mm as the thickness suited my intended use as side and rear wall absorbers, as well as allowing them to be doubled-up to become XHD 100mm if I wanted to experiment with absorbers that performed better at very low frequencies.

 

A big benefit of the Polymax XHD is its stiffness. It will stand perfectly upright against a wall with no sagging. I could quite easily get away without framing these panels, such is the quality of manufacture and cutting. I will, however, do something regarding framing and/or covering some day so that they blend in better with the decor. 

 

Interestingly, the Absorb XHD is manufactured using the 'card and cross-lap' method which Tontine used to use for their Acoustisorb many years ago, before switching to the 'air lay' process which is faster but less consistent and results in varied density throughout the product. One SNAer has encountered issues with the Tontine in a professional environment and only uses the Absorb as a result. Apparently, the published stats for the Tontine product are also based upon the old product from a few years ago (cheeky!) rather than the newer 'air lay' product which doesn't perform quite as well. It's amazing how much background and technical info there is on pro audio forums out there.

 

I had a bit of a listen with some familiar tracks, and then embarked on some non-scientific panel placement. I basically replaced some of the temporary panels and foam squares which I had placed at the first reflection points on the side wall, and on the rear wall elevated behind the listening chair. These were thin panels and your typical acoustic pyramid foam which did help a bit with slap echo, but little more. I also plonked a panel behind each speaker (this space was previously bare)

 

Cue the music... and whoaaaa, what do we have here? The improvement in reverb and echo was clear from the get-go. Imaging snapped into place, and subtleties which were previously masked are now clear and distinct. The sound is more coherent. From what I can tell, these panels have struck a pretty good balance between taming the ills of the room, yet allowing it to sound natural and still a tiny bit 'live'. Measurements may tell a different story, of course, but I'm very happy!

 

This is as good as I KNEW my system could sound. Gone are my concerns about the PMCs not quite living up to expectations, and likewise, that lingering doubt in the back of my mind that the audio-gd ES9018 DAC was too bright and not synergising with my rig. It's not the gear... IT'S YOUR ROOM, STUPID!!

 

Colour me impressed!

 

Now... let's see what wifey says when confronted with these black monoliths!

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2014 by pete_mac

[Guest Muon]

Getting serious now, Pete

Edited June 13, 2014 by ortofun

[kczar01]

Looking great Pete!!, I am surprised that the speakers like it so close to the rear walls. Acoustics are a funny thing

[pete_mac]

Looking great Pete!!, I am surprised that the speakers like it so close to the rear walls. Acoustics are a funny thing

They are indeed mate. I found this positioning to offer the best bass extension as well as the best soundstage width and imaging. Bring the speakers in from the rear walls diminishes the bass, and the imaging suffers when I bring the speakers closer together.

I'll tinker a bit more now that the panels are here - it may well be the case that revised positioning works better. We shall see!

[lebowski]

Hi Pete, how you finding the Audio GD - NFB3? you've had a few of Kingwa's converters now so how does it compare with his PCM1704UK DAC's?

[pete_mac]

Hi Pete, how you finding the Audio GD - NFB3? you've had a few of Kingwa's converters now so how does it compare with his PCM1704UK DAC's?

Indeed, I've had three of his PCM1704UK DACs and one WM8741 DAC so far!

The 1704 DACs weren't the last word in outright resolution, but they had a nice timbre and tone. The new ES9018 NFB3(2014) is noticeably more detailed - insert cliche 'I'm hearing details in the music that I didn't realise were there'. I think it does a pretty reasonable job regarding timbre and tone and believability, but sounds its best with the WM8805 SPDIF receiver chip, rather than the DIR9001 receiver chip.

On the old NFB2/3 the DIR9001 was the 'go-to' chip as it elicited more detail and better sound staging. When added to the new NFB it over-eggs the pudding (unless you've got a dark, slow amp and speakers and need a massive injection of detail IMHO). With my current main amp and speakers, the WM8805 is definitely the way to go to achieve the best balance.

Compared to the Resonessence Labs Concero the NFB has a much taller and wider sound stage with stronger cues. I was amazed at the difference when someone else assisted with A/B switching between the two whilst I remain seated (levels were matched etc). The Concero sounded more relaxed and warm in comparison (and is a cracking DAC in its own right).

I rate the new NFB-3 (2014) very highly at this price point! However, if buying new, I'd go for the newly-released NFB1S which is about $525 and has balanced outs and a led front panel with buttons.

Edited August 7, 2014 by pete_mac

[lebowski]

So the NFB3's USB implementation is ok but not as good as its SPDIF?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pete_mac]

I have only used the USB input via the Squeezebox Touch and EDO app and found it to sound very good, albeit similar to the DIR9001 in terms of tonality. The WM8805 SPDIF input is a tad more relaxed and I subjectively prefer it.

[pete_mac]

Another update - new (used) speakers and a room reconfiguration!

 

We bought new lounges for the living area, so I've moved the surplus 3.5 seater and 2.5 seater lounges into the 'media' room and have reorientated the system so that it sits along the long wall of the room, firing across towards the larger lounge. The room will eventually feature a screen for movie duties too, so I figured I may as well get used to the revised configuration now!

 

The sound is different, that's for sure. It's probably more of a nearfield experience in some ways. The imaging is possibly even better than before, but the depth of the sound stage isn't quite as good I believe. All things considered, it ain't too bad at all. I was expecting it to sound much worse! I think adding the big absorbent lounges has probably helped acoustically.

 

I've sat two of the Polymax XHD panels directly behind my head which helps with reflections, and the remainder are double-stacked behind the speakers. I will experiment further when time permits. 

 

The new speakers are JM Lab/Focal Cobalt 816s in excellent condition. They feature trickle-down technology from the top-line JM Lab speakers of that era, including the Tioxid 5 tweeter from the Electra series and the W-cone woofer and mid from the Utopia series.

 

They also feature a window at the rear where you can view the crossover innards. I reckon a few Mills or Superes resistors and some Clarity Cap ESAs would go nicely in there, but for the time being I am supremely happy.

 

I'm not finding them to be the least bit spitty or fatiguing, and that's coupled with one of Kingwa's ES9018 DACs which is quite highly resolving and on the brighter side of things as far as Kingwa's products are concerned! There's a pretty good tonal balance from top to bottom, erring on the accurate/dry side of things rather than imparting any warmth to the sound. 

 

The bass response is very good, reaching below 30hz in room but with a bit of boom, so I've inserted the port bungs for smoother bass performance overall with only a minor reduction in overall extension.

 

Overall, I'm very satisfied with this speaker downgrade/sidegrade of sorts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Muon]

New room looks great!

 

The system too

[Onbagz]

Fantastic

Sent via magic for sorcery

[Viognier]

Looking great Pete.

[jdog]

awesome progress.. i had the same Focal speakers for a little while, one day my friend decided to turn them up to see how loud they can go and speakers blew both perspex windows out   bass went all rattly until we figured perspex windows were on the floor they are thick so no damage but i had to silicone them back in...

[progladyte]

Nice looking room and great looking gear.

 

I bet you're pleased with the results so far?

 

Prog

[ELYAS]

Looks good mate. You're photography skills arn't too bad either!

[pete_mac]

Nice looking room and great looking gear.

I bet you're pleased with the results so far?

Prog

Indeed. She's sounding rather fine! A friend heard it on the weekend, and as a result, he is currently shopping for new speakers!

Looks good mate. You're photography skills arn't too bad either!

Thanks mate. My trusty Canon point-and-shoot treats me well! Edited September 1, 2014 by pete_mac

[pete_mac]

Ok, some further changes!

 

As much as I've enjoyed he ES9018 equipped NFB-3(2014), I still found myself drawn to the tonal goodness of the PCM1704UK-equipped audio-gds.

 

So, I posted a WTB ad and waited...

 

A fellow SNAer contacted me to advise that he had a DAC19DSP for sale, and that he believed it to be the exact unit that I bought new from Kingwa back in 2012.

 

Sadly, I had no record of the serial number of my unit, so I initially struggled to verify this. However, with a bit of detective work, I established who I sold the unit to, and who the unit was later onsold to. When the third owner sold the DAC on SNA, he posted photos:)  The DAC went through another two owners after that. After checking the photos on SNA... lo and behold -  the DAC being offered to me matched the photos, so it is indeed my original unit! Pretty damn cool if you ask me!

 

So, baby is now home to roost!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speaker-wise, I sold my JM Lab Cobalt 816s and have been using either a pair of Sound Dynamics 300ti which I tweaked a few years back (a favourite bargain speaker of Harry Pearson from The Absolute Sound) or a pair of Paradigm 5se MkIIs. Both sounded quite decent in fact, but probably a tad bassy for my particular room configuration (can anyone say room modes??)

 

I've scored a pair of very clean Orpheus Minotaur standmount speakers. These speakers are designed by Brad Serhan and were used extensively as monitoring speakers in various TV, radio and recording studio applicaitons.

 

The cabinets are 19mm thick 7 layer Brimsboard lined with 3mm thick bituminous pads across exactly 50% of the internal surface area. The cabinets are very inert indeed and have external dimensions of 430mm x 210mm x 260mm and weigh 10kg each.

 

The woofer looks to be a SEAS which is a cross between the T14RCY and P14RCY (black cone of the latter, phase plug of the former). I might research further. The tweeter looks to be a SEAST 25T series tweeter as per my recently departed JPW Ruby 2s.

 

So... how do they sound? Bloody superb! The imaging and sound staging is uncanny! Superb clarity and coherence - bags of detail, but a certain 'musicality' to the sound which can be lacking when you're chasing out-and-out detail retrieval. These babies have soul! I reckon Brad has done a super job with the driver integration. They work VERY well in my room and don't excite any room modes. 

 

I reckon I can kick up my heels, relax and enjoy the music for a while (after re-arranging some speakers to reduce clutter and to let the Minotaurs really breathe). The presentation that this combination of gear gives me is just fantastic and is EXACTLY what I've been after following the sale of my Focus Audio FS68s and audio-gd Reference 5 a year or so ago. It's not an ear-blasting rig, nor is the scale and dynamics up there with bigger systems. It is intimate, inviting, seductive. I like it!

 

It's a funny game this audio journey! Sometimes, you don't realise how good your existing system is, and you head off in another direction for something bigger/better/faster/shinier/DIFFERENT... but end up returning to almost the same place that you were previously at!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Fez]

The audio adventure continues!

 

Yes it's very interesting where the road can take you Some places you like, some you love, and yet some places you want to leave straight away! But you know sometimes you want to "run home to mother" where you know you are safe, content and happy. You can refresh, and re-energize here and then start the next chapter...

[pete_mac]

I reckon I'll be sitting happy for a while now. This combo sounds just great - all that is missing is a better source, or perhaps a W4S Remedy, Synchro Mesh or audio-gd DI for reclocking duties. From past experience, the DAC19 lifts in performance quite dramatically with a low jitter, low noise source.

The only thing I'll tinker with in the immediate future is different Sansui amplification. A BA-F1/CA-F1 pre-power combo will hold court at some stage. Maybe an AU-D11...

It's been very interesting experimenting with very revealing DACs and speakers, but when that detail comes at the expense of timbre and tone, the return to a more wholesome, engaging sound is an easy choice for me to make.

The PCM1704UK again reigns supreme at Casa Del Mac!

Edited October 12, 2014 by pete_mac

[pete_mac]

 

The woofer looks to be a SEAS which is a cross between the T14RCY and P14RCY (black cone of the latter, phase plug of the former). I might research further. The tweeter looks to be a SEAST 25T series tweeter as per my recently departed JPW Ruby 2s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brad Serhan was gracious enough to chat with me for 30 minutes regarding the Minotaurs, and audio stuff in general. Top bloke - very humble and down-to-earth, and genuinely chuffed that someone is receiving great joy from the Minotaurs. They hold a special place in his heart!

 

The tweeters are confirmed as SEAS H400 25TACG whilst the woofers are SEAS P14RC/P.

 

I'm still loving these speakers to bits!

[pete_mac]

A little update... I snaffled a pair of lovely ELITE Aesthet 1 MK II speakers speakers a few days ago.

 

I have previous experience with Chinese/Hong Kong speakers (having owned ProAc 1S clones previously) but these beauties are in a different class altogether.

 

I'll comment further on the sound in future, but I'm absolutely smitten at present. They are probably the best speaker that I've owned, but let's wait until the honeymoon period subsides before making that call. Mr Lenehan, Mr Focus Audio and Mr PMC should be worried though!

 

 

The main specs are:

 

^{Frequency Response: 42Hz-20kHz}

^{Sensitity: 86db/1M/2.83V
Nominal Impedance: 6 ohms
Power Handling: 50-150W
Tweeter: Scan Speak D2010-8513 3/4" tweeter
Woofer: Scan Speak 18W-8545 7" carbon impregnated paper 'crinkle' cone
Crossover Elements: Large diameter OFC hollow inductors,Solen MKP polypropylene capacitors,Imported pure copper connection wires
Cabinet Material: Multiple layered MDF
Finish: Birds eye maple
Dimensions: 420H x 225W x 310D mm
Weight: 13.8kg each}

 

The build quality is also SUPERB... the veneer is immaculate, the gloss finish is impeccable, the cabinet is weighty and inert. I'm really enjoying having speakers which aren't BLACK in my system. You might have guessed that I have a penchant for black, but the birds eye maple veneer really lifts the vibe of the room and contrasts with the rest of the gear.

 

Anyway, back to listening!!!

 

Oh, and there's something else different in the pics - a lovely Sansui BA-F1 power amp and CA-F1 preamp combo which is on loan from the Sydney Sansui Museum aka skippy124. BEAST!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2015 by pete_mac

[kczar01]

Very nice Pete, I also like your amp platforms. did the same with some little rubber stickies under thanks to Ikea, worked a treat.