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Thought it was about time I posted a thread about my recent speaker acquisition

Speakers - Klipsch La Scala - Highly Modified

3 way Horn

Originally built by fellow SNA member Sootshe and purchased by me Jan 2014

These speaker cabinets are built to Klipsch blueprint plans with added bracing and double wall back and sides for extra strength and dampening

Built in plywood and wood veneer with added Timber Eliptrac 400 Mid Horn

And a bass bin under

For my part in this build - I have continued to tweak and modify on the fringes to get the best sound possible for my listening room and after many tweaks and lots of listening and 3 months later I believe I have achieved Nirvana

More on the tweaks in following posts

Here is a cutaway view drawing of the speaker and bass bin construction

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Edited by Full Range
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I suppose you are all wondering what do these Klipsch La Scalas look like all set up Well I will post some photos for you to look at while I continue to post specs of the build also drivers and comp

Thought it was about time I posted a thread about my recent speaker acquisition Speakers - Klipsch La Scala - Highly Modified 3 way Horn Originally built by fellow SNA member Sootshe and purchas

I had the pleasure of visiting Paul today to hear these speakers. Firstly, thanks for the hospitality and the great coffee. These are even more physically impressive in the flesh. The finish is supe

I suppose you are all wondering what do these Klipsch La Scalas look like all set up

Well I will post some photos for you to look at while I continue to post specs of the build also drivers and components used in this construction

post-112724-0-06186200-1397345589_thumb.post-112724-0-91491700-1397345614_thumb.post-112724-0-95835900-1397345679_thumb.

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Although the construction is to Klipsch spec it has been modified to enhance its performance and flexibility

First mod was to add extra bracing by way of using a double layer of ply on the sides and back and braces to the bass horn side walls

Second mod was to separate the single cabinet construction to a double separate cabinet configuration

Drivers used as as follows

Woofers - Crites - CW1526C 15 inch cast alloy

Mid Range - Great Plains Audio - GPA 399 Compression driver ( These are made by Altec Lansing )

Fitted to a pair of Eliptrac 400 timber mid range horns

Tweeters - JBL 2404H “Baby Cheeks†tweeters.

Crossovers used are

ALK Universal crossovers with tweeter attenuators

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Edited by Full Range
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My tweaks were experiments in

Hook up wire, insulation, sound-wave optimisation in the dog box section ( bass ) , separating & coupling of the two cabinet sections

The two cabinet sections of the base and mid range were originally placed on top of each other (timber to timber )

I elected to separate and couple them with some Made in Germany - Alto Extremo feet - 3 per Mid range unit

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I went through a few but simple dog box ( bass ) tweaks

And after many many hours of listening and getting second opinions I settled for this

Normally unnecessary but due to the addition of the bass box section I felt it prudent to help the sound waves as much as I can

First I sourced from Spotlight (a craft type shop) some styrofoam cones of a suitable size to fit inside the cavity and attached them to the back of the driver magnet ( think aerodynamics )

At first I wasn't sure if this tweak would work but listening tests confirmed that it made a difference in a wholesome way to the sound and especially tighter bass

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I then proceeded to rework the insulation inside the bass bin section

The previous owner had it fully lined with fabric covered fibreglass insulation

This was carefully removed and vacuumed cleaned to give me a blank canvas to work with

Sound testing without insulation was first tried to get a ball park idea of what was required and it displayed some reverberations in bass output

I used my go to motor room insulation that I have had success with on my other speaker builds

The only sections that were insulated was the - sides, back and top ceiling area with the bottom and front left bare

Also a couple of insulation strips at the port pipe entrance and finally added recently some 400mm X 200mm plastic air balloons 3 per tube

The difference this mod has done to bass delivery and definition is nothing short of amazing

First photo is the before tweak

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Edited by Full Range
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I have recently purchased from another SNA member a set of ALK Design AP12-600 + AP15-6000 Crossovers http://www.alkeng.com to give me some flexibility in tweaking the mid range driver and tweeter with separate hard wired selectable attenuators

And of course ( knowing me :) ) I had to tweak these as well - but only a small one for now

The tweak was an upgrade from standard resistors to a set of hand made Duelund Cast graphite silver resistors http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/duelund_cast_resistors.html

Photos of before and after

post-112724-0-93067400-1397352389_thumb.post-112724-0-96161000-1397352422_thumb.

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For my next tweak I need to enlist help from a local Brisbane SNAer that has electronics experience to be paid in superb award winning coffee and conversation ;)

Help is required to rebuild the the ALK design universal crossovers to ALK AP12-500 & AP12-6000 configurations

I have all the parts and schematics - all the parts from capacitors to hand wound coils are of superior quality and will finish off the speakers to the highest standard

PM me if you are up to the challenge

post-112724-0-52754500-1397353685_thumb.post-112724-0-78319700-1397353729_thumb.post-112724-0-96489500-1397353769_thumb.

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Impressive stuff mate,

 

Always liked the Klipsch and am fascinated with the changes you've made to the original design. If I ever get to Qld, I'll be coming for a listen.

 

Cheers

 

M

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Now I am ready to field all your questions

But before that here are a few photos of the components that drive these speakers just for good measure

post-112724-0-60343000-1397354139_thumb.post-112724-0-12325100-1397354166_thumb.post-112724-0-72201300-1397354273_thumb.

Edited by Full Range
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Impressive stuff mate,

 

Always liked the Klipsch and am fascinated with the changes you've made to the original design. If I ever get to Qld, I'll be coming for a listen.

 

Cheers

 

M

I also like you're builds - and give me a shout if you visit the Sunshine State

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Guest atilsley

Way cool project...everything I love about horns.

 

The eliptrac horns are one of the very best...the ALK xovers also top notch.

 

Well done.

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Way cool project...everything I love about horns.

The eliptrac horns are one of the very best...the ALK xovers also top notch.

Well done.

There is a new larger Eliptrac Horn now available the 240 and I was thinking how it would suit your horn build

Here is a photo of the two the Eliptrac 400 on top and the 240 below

I have been contemplating on an upgrade - but Dave ( the builder/designer ) said that he wouldn't change a thing about my set up

post-112724-0-48635500-1397356973_thumb.

Edited by Full Range
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I hope all can see the rear of the timber horn as it is fitted inside the cabinet

The horn exterior has bituminous paint applied to it for sound deadening

It started its life as cut panels on a CNC machine

Here is a link of the assembly / build process - http://mysite.verizon.net/res12il11/id111.html

Just a few photos for members to use as a visual reference

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Edited by Full Range
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Guest atilsley

I have the 340hz azura, which I love. I came close to buying dave's eliptrac earlier.

With the bigger horn, you could even use a small paper driver for a lowish 300hz.

How's the bass with the extended bottom cab?

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I have the 340hz azura, which I love. I came close to buying dave's eliptrac earlier.

With the bigger horn, you could even use a small paper driver for a lowish 300hz.

How's the bass with the extended bottom cab?

The soundstage of the Eliptrac Horn coupled to the other components is brilliant - the speakers are lost and the whole room is enveloped in sound - This horn is a brilliant design

Re Bass cabinet

Although I don't have measuring equipment to give you a definitive number

My ears and senses tell me that it easily gets to below 30 htz ( The Crites bass driver is rated @ 26 htz )

However after the cab tweaks - the bass produced is so crisp & fast, very defined without muddiness

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Guest atilsley

The soundstage of the Eliptrac Horn coupled to the other components is brilliant - the speakers are lost and the whole room is enveloped in sound - This horn is a brilliant design

Re Bass cabinet

Although I don't have measuring equipment to give you a definitive number

My ears and senses tell me that it easily gets to below 30 htz ( The Crites bass driver is rated @ 26 htz )

However after the cab tweaks - the bass produced is so crisp & fast, very defined without muddiness

Thanks...great to hear.

 

Before I embarked on the large mid bass 'azura', I looked at a few other bass options, including the La Scala.

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I took the grills off and have taken the opportunity to take a few photos of the horn mouth and the bracing

Just to paint a picture for the minds eye of some bass ( dog box due to its shape ) build details

The driver faces towards the back and the sound waves are compressed in a small internal rectangular chamber before exiting past a cut slit at the rear

The sound waves are then directed to the horn chamber via triangular baffles top & bottom to exit towards the front to the listener - I have found a photo of this on the internet to post for visual reference

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Re Bass cabinet

Although I don't have measuring equipment to give you a definitive number

My ears and senses tell me that it easily gets to below 30 htz ( The Crites bass driver is rated @ 26 htz )

However after the cab tweaks - the bass produced is so crisp & fast, very defined without muddiness

 

 

Awesome looking project, Paul! I bet it sounds fab ...

 

Good to see that you have taken a different approach (Bass Reflex loading) with the bass bin, than the original Klipsch La Scala, and that yours produces below 30 Hz. When I had an original pair of Klipsch Belle which is a La Scala in a nicely finished cabinet, the most annoying thing about it was the poor bass that it produced. A sort of one-noted 50-60Hz bass that intruded on the vocal range in an unpleasant boom-y way. I tried room treatments and adding a subwoofer to give it a lower range, but the annoying one noted bass from the horn bass still remained.

 

Is the Eliptrac mid horn basically an elliptical Tractrix Horn? I might be interested in one for my Edgar Horn set-up.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Steve.

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Awesome looking project, Paul! I bet it sounds fab ...

 

Good to see that you have taken a different approach (Bass Reflex loading) with the bass bin, than the original Klipsch La Scala, and that yours produces below 30 Hz. When I had an original pair of Klipsch Belle which is a La Scala in a nicely finished cabinet, the most annoying thing about it was the poor bass that it produced. A sort of one-noted 50-60Hz bass that intruded on the vocal range in an unpleasant boom-y way. I tried room treatments and adding a subwoofer to give it a lower range, but the annoying one noted bass from the horn bass still remained.

 

Is the Eliptrac mid horn basically an elliptical Tractrix Horn? I might be interested in one for my Edgar Horn set-up.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Steve.

Hi Steve the building work on these speakers was performed or commissioned by SNA member @@sootshe

For my part I have tweaked them to suit my components and room

The Eliptrac horn was developed over on the Klipsch forum by a couple of enthusiasts and help from Klipsch

I am not sure how they would compare to the Tractrix Horn but @@sootshe opted for the Eliptrac Horn after trying one or two other types ( see photo )

When I spoke to him he basically said that the Eliptrac surpassed the previous horns

post-112724-0-73919800-1397455499_thumb.

I have them sounding superbly at present

With only the high spec crossover upgrade still to go - This I believe will kick it up a notch even though the sound is superb now, and I can't complain

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Very impressive project, thanks for sharing. My initial thought was that this is not a La Scala, nor will it sound like one. Not any more. It should be much better.

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Yes, thanks for sharing Paul, I too am very impressed.  Would like to hear these one day.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony

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Thanks Paul, your photo at Post #21 is showing the Tractrix horn that I use in my Edgar Horn set-up. Sounds hopeful that the Eliptrac exceeds that, how much is the 400Hz Eliptrac and where do you get them from?

 

Cheers,

 

Steve.

Edited by Steve M
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Thanks Paul, your photo at Post #21 is showing the Tractrix horn that I use in my Edgar Horn set-up. Sounds hopeful that the Eliptrac exceeds that, how much is the 400Hz Eliptrac and where do you get them from?

 

Cheers,

 

Steve.

Have a look at Daves site - http://mysite.verizon.net/res12il11/id144.html

This will give you all the options on the kits available

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I found a photo during the build that @@sootshe supplied

This one is of the bass horn cabinet back panel area prior to the back being installed

Notice the slit from where the sound waves are forced out towards two horn exits on the left & right

You will also see the triangle diverters and side bracing

post-112724-0-79340000-1397690827_thumb.

Edited by Full Range
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Hi Paul,

 

Interesting project, I'm wondering what's the goal for having front mouth and reflex loaded? is it for extra sensitivity for the midrange? since its very small box comparing the size of the woofer and using 2 big ports means tuned quite high, whats the expected LF for this?

 

sorry for a lot of questions :) as I'm not familiar with La Scalas (or any other Klipsch :P )

 

EDIT: i just realised that the whole upper section before the horn is actually the enclosure. cool :)

 

cheers

Henry

Edited by henry218
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Guest atilsley

Hi Paul,

 

Interesting project, I'm wondering what's the goal for having front mouth and reflex loaded? is it for extra sensitivity for the midrange? since its very small box comparing the size of the woofer and using 2 big ports means tuned quite high, whats the expected LF for this?

 

sorry for a lot of questions :) as I'm not familiar with La Scalas (or any other Klipsch :P )

 

EDIT: i just realised that the whole upper section before the horn is actually the enclosure. cool :)

 

cheers

Henry

Henry

 

I'd say it's purely to extend the bass response from around 50Hz to 35Hz.

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The height of the bass cabinet is 260 mm internal height & the ports are 100 mm diameter & 180mm long.

And it would be 612 mm square internal measurements

Not sure of the Dog box volume - but I can source it and get back to you

Edited by Full Range
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with these parameters

FS is 26.3, Re is 3.36, VAS is 506.3 Liters, BL is 12.49, QM is 9.93, QE is 0.27, QT is 0.26. Sensitivity is 97 db. Coil is 1 mH

 

the ideal box should be around 165-195L with fb from 35hz to 30hz.

 

it looks like a great bass driver :)

 

 

post-120534-0-06153400-1397742819_thumb.

post-120534-0-88387900-1397742868_thumb.

Edited by henry218
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 27/04/2014 at 7:10 PM, Milos said:

Hi Paul,

great to see what you've been up to!!

A few more photos of Earles Amps would be great!

Miles

Here are some more photos Miles ;)

Both built by Earle Weston

This is the main amp

post-112724-0-38494000-1398592424_thumb.post-112724-0-63561100-1398592436_thumb.post-112724-0-95486000-1398592454_thumb.

 

And this is the preamp with inbuilt DAC + Headphone amp

 

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Edited by Full Range
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For my next tweak I need to enlist help from a local Brisbane SNAer that has electronics experience to be paid in superb award winning coffee and conversation ;)

Help is required to rebuild the the ALK design universal crossovers to ALK AP12-500 & AP12-6000 configurations

I have all the parts and schematics - all the parts from capacitors to hand wound coils are of superior quality and will finish off the speakers to the highest standard

PM me if you are up to the challenge

I have had an offer from a fellow SNAer - thanks @green-wagon to build the crossovers for me for a small cost and the promise of getting that " weak in the knees feeling when he has a listen on the system when it's all connected up

The Crossover design is based on the ALK gentle slope type AP12-500 & AP12-6000 configurations

However ALK has made these crossovers as a two piece system as that fits the Klipsch Heritage range

Green Wagon and I have come to an agreement & based on Troels Gravasens observations and the available space

We have designed this build as a single board - all coil distances are to Troels recommendations

Green wagon has simplified the connectivity of all three driver sections on the crossover and has drawn up a new schematic

(I won't post the schematic as ALK the designer has removed them from the web site due to plagiarism)

First we did a basic layout of the components on the floor with the view to tweak as needed for best performance and fit

post-112724-0-82327800-1399531881_thumb..

A close up of the tweeter attenuator - This component will allow me to tweak db volume to suit speaker placement and room sise

post-112724-0-62531400-1399531937_thumb.

We chose a good speaker colour match plywood board - and started the component fit

You will see a set of wire cutters and the tape measure @ 500mm to judge scale

post-112724-0-61560500-1399532091_thumb.

post-112724-0-53432000-1399532287_thumb.post-112724-0-42762900-1399532321_thumb.

Edited by Full Range
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Very nice FR :-)

Thanks @@Malcolm

Wait for more posts as the crossovers progress into the build and then the testing phase

While that is happening I will choose the finish of the surround area - I currently have approx 6 different styles to choose from

Anyone care to help with side finish ideas

Keep in mind the crossovers will be approx + 3 kg each and will need some sort of incorporated handles or grab points for easy lifting

Min clearance height required is 30 mm

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      Heres some info  on the drivers:
      Tweeter:

      https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-sd11-a-1-textile-dome-tweeter--297-416
       
      With spec's:
       
      http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=26
       
      Mid:
       
      https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-dmn-a-soft-dome-fabric-midrange--297-415

      http://www.swanspeaker.com/asp/product/htm/view.asp?id=39

      https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-d108-10-poly-cone-woofer--297-453

      Dome tweeter and mid-range with 10 inch subwoofer. I would define the sound as open/wide with plenty of details specially vocals.
      bass is firm and fast. Doesn't lag at all.

      These speakers usually sell for $2500 so asking a fraction
      I had 2 pairs one was demo which is already sold .This pair is brand new in it's original box. Each speaker weighs 30 kgs. 

      Dimensions are:
      30X36X95 cms
       
      Also these speakers are future proof as you can always upgrade the drivers to vifa/scanspeak if needed (not that they need it as they sound fantastic as is)

      Have all original boxes so will Pack them extremely well for safe shipping via courier. Will be double boxes with heavy duty bubble wrap and straps. Free shipping to Melbourne/ Brisbane and Adelaide. For NT /WA please add another $100

      thanks for looking
       
       
       
      Heres some info  on the drivers:
      Tweeter:
      https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-sd11-a-1-textile-dome-tweeter--297-416
      With spec's:
      http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=26
       
      Mid:
      https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-dmn-a-soft-dome-fabric-midrange--297-415
       
      http://www.swanspeaker.com/asp/product/htm/view.asp?id=39
       
       
      https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-d108-10-poly-cone-woofer--297-453
       

      Photos:
       
      PLEASE READ
      If you are advertising multiple items, you must post one bulk price only, or post seperate ads for each item If you include any reference to pricing whatsoever in this section (excluding RRP), your ad will not be approved If you don't include photographs of the actual item being sold, your ad will not be approved










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