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Open baffle speaker build


steve u

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I am considering building some open baffle speakers.

 

I have never built anything like this before and have found some kits available which supposedly supply everything for you. These are the ones,

 

http://www.pureaudioproject.com/cube-10-open-baffle-speakers/

 

I would be interested in opinions on a project like this and also opinions on options or alternatives to this product. While I am a fan of high efficiency full range speakers, I have never heard anything like this product and also would like opinions on what the end product may sound like, or where it might excel or lack in performance when in use.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Steve 

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If you're not in a hurry to get stuck into this, I will be able to offer you comprehensive information on pureaudioproject and their offerings.
I have in transit to me as we speak, their Trio15 TB, and shortly after another model.

 

What I can say is Ze'ev, who you deal with when you contact them is one of the nicest, most accommodating guys I've ever come across! Certainly knowledgeable too.

 

I think this company is going to enjoy some great success.

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The drivers are all here. The brackets/feet kit has shipped from Israel, and my baffles are leaving direct from Germany this week sometime.

We've also ordered the Blue Jeans Cable speaker cables direct as per PAP's recommendation.

 

Looking forward to assembly. :)

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I've just fired off an email to Ze'ev to put together some indicative pricing for AU for baffles and mounting kit, and also for the passive crossover (new). You'd always be better off sourcing the drivers locally where possible, or at least the Alpha 15's.

I'll post back the answer.

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Hi Mark,

If it is shipping from Germany does that mean you went with the oak instead of the bamboo?

There is a fair bit of difference in price as one is in US dollars and the other in Euros.

I'm not really following the difference between Alpha and Beta and dipole???

 

Steve

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Hi Mark,

If it is shipping from Germany does that mean you went with the oak instead of the bamboo?

There is a fair bit of difference in price as one is in US dollars and the other in Euros.

I'm not really following the difference between Alpha and Beta and dipole???

Steve

the alpha have much smaller magnet than the beta, hence higher qts :)

ideally above 0.6 and below 1

Edited by henry218
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It's not qualified teacher status is it? I tried google and I'm none the wiser.

QES*QMS= what tha. I don't understand any of that, I was looking into these designs because I hoped it would be the easiest place to start

 

On the parts express site they are out of stock of the alphas now anyway. But all the other ones look similar...

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google open baffle nelson pass feastrex lowther, u will find some of his experiment.

i used both, preferred beta, but honestly its just for tryout :), but it was fun

Edited by henry218
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I have alpha and betas here actually (you'd be surprised at some of the DIY projects I work on that never make it to these forums!).

 

Another point though... there's been a habit forming lately by a few to turn every single thread into a hugely technical (advanced) DIY thread.

 

The OP stated "I have never built anything like this before and have found some kits available which supposedly supply everything for you." I don't think we need to "baffle" (see what I did there? :P) them with qes, qms, qts etc.

They, I assume were looking for a kit all-in-one solution. Let's do our best to stay on the topic please with simple solutions to what they are looking for. Start a new thread for more advanced open baffle designs and discussions otherwise please :)

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Hi Mark,

If it is shipping from Germany does that mean you went with the oak instead of the bamboo?

There is a fair bit of difference in price as one is in US dollars and the other in Euros.

I'm not really following the difference between Alpha and Beta and dipole???

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve, yes German Oak. A nice touch is once a customer has ordered a hardware kit, they also supply the customer with full baffle plans so you can produce them out of anything you like.

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I have alpha and betas here actually (you'd be surprised at some of the DIY projects I work on that never make it to these forums!).

Another point though... there's been a habit forming lately by a few to turn every single thread into a hugely technical (advanced) DIY thread.

The OP stated "I have never built anything like this before and have found some kits available which supposedly supply everything for you." I don't think we need to "baffle" (see what I did there? :P) them with qes, qms, qts etc.

They, I assume were looking for a kit all-in-one solution. Let's do our best to stay on the topic please with simple solutions to what they are looking for. Start a new thread for more advanced open baffle designs and discussions otherwise please :)

i for one doesnt like to be too technical, but basics is necessary :).

as buying alpha and beta is not cheap for us, so i prefer to save his time and money for the beta, which is more enjoyable :P

Edited by henry218
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Marc did you order the drivers that Ze'ev suggested or did you have stock on hand?

 

Would I be right in assuming that if I changed the drivers than the passive Xover I am ordering would need to be changed as well?

 

I might wait until you have the baffles and get your opinion.

 

Or I might not...hmmm

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Ze'ev organised some Alpha's - which he recommends. I will be using active amplifiers, and DEQX HDP4 because I can.

I also have the passive crossovers coming when they are ready (design being finalised now apparently) - but yes these are designed for the Alpha's.

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Ze'ev organised some Alpha's - which he recommends. I will be using active amplifiers, and DEQX HDP4 because I can.

I also have the passive crossovers coming when they are ready (design being finalised now apparently) - but yes these are designed for the Alpha's.

for alpha it will be simpler xo, as for beta, it will need EQ/compensation, passive or active.

so if u want to be simple, go with the Kit :)

but nevertheless, it will be fun guaranteed, as for Bass, u will get much better bass than puny 6" :P

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I heard back from Ze'ev.
 
Pricing is as follows and includes shipping to Australia.

  • 15" Hardware Kit - $900US
  • Baffles & Feet Set
    - Option 1: Bamboo Plywood $950US Shipped from Israel
    - Option 2: Genuine Numbered German Oak 1,030EUR Shipped from Germany
    - Option 3: Free of Charge Plane (only with Hardware Kit) - DIY Baffles

And just a comment from Ze'ev himself:
 

Henri's last comment is right! the Betas need eq and IMO amplification when working with the TB, others if you pad the TB too much, it will loose it's magic !

 

Ze'ev also invited you to email him info@@PureAudioProject.com should you want any further information or advice @@steve u

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if you guys have any interest on bi-amping for the OB, here's an excellent tool for it

 

From Nelson Pass's Firswatt page 

 

B5 Active Crossover / EQ for Open Baffle Speakers

The B5 is now available, and you can download the B5 Manual in pdf format.

It has been made sufficiently adjustable to operate with a wide range of open baffle designs and different drivers. It can also be used with more conventional enclosures and a wide range of different power amplifiers.

It features a two pole (12 dB/oct) low pass filter variable from 20 to 300 Hz in 20 Hz steps, and a high pass filter with 1 or 2 poles (6 or 12 dB/oct) which is also variable from 20 to 300 Hz in 20 Hz steps.

The woofer channel also has a 2 pole high pass filter for the woofer with a 6 dB equalization “bump†at 20 Hz. This is useful for extracting a bit more output at the bottom of the audio range of any loudspeaker, particularly open baffles, and functions as a subsonic filter below 15 Hz.

The full range high pass channel offers choices of shelving equalization curve (also known as “baffle step correctionâ€) for full range drivers, variable from 250 Hz to 2.5 Khz with shelving at 0, -2, -4, -6 and -8 dB.

The active circuits are JFET buffers, most of them simple source followers without feedback. The distortion and noise are quite low, and the bandwidth is very wide.

 

 

 

http://www.firstwatt.com/b5.html

 

 

http://renohifi.com/FirstInStock.htm

Edited by henry218
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It's quite a bit more expensive than the Mini DSP option, but as you say, is a little simpler than using DSP.

i have not tested them, been meaning too and almost pulled the trigger couple of times, but i suspect the B5 will have less signature than miniDSP, Its not that popular nowadays since DSP products getting more and more on the market.

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I would be interested in opinions on a project like this and also opinions on options or alternatives to this product. While I am a fan of high efficiency full range speakers, I have never heard anything like this product and also would like opinions on what the end product may sound like, or where it might excel or lack in performance when in use.

 

 

I can offer some suggestions on what you might find.

 

As a general rule, open baffle speakers have a deeper sound stage due to the strong front wall reflection (the wall behind the speakers). All else being equal, they also have a wider listening area, where the sound stage stays more intact as you move to side seats, when used with a suitable toe in. This relates to both the dipole nature and the dispersion. Here I refer to dynamic driver dipoles, not panel speakers.

 

In my view they are especially suited to classical music, where the original space is always so much bigger and creating an impression of a larger space has more value than pin point imaging. On the other hand, the lack of sharp imaging is a consequence of their inherent design, unless you seriously damp the front wall and dial back the front wall reflection. Then you approach a sound more like a speaker with more controlled directivity.

 

I was an open baffle fan for some time, but developed a taste for much sharper imaging. A stable stero image with increased width of the listening area can be achieved in monopoles with constant directivity and the image focus is much greater.

 

If you take some drivers in a monopole and then put them on an open baffle with suitable bass augmentation, the immediate first impression is of a much bigger sound. You may find it beguiling, you may find it disappointing or perhaps a bit of both.

 

Generally speaking, open baffle speakers require a lot more firepower in the bass to do the same job. Despite many claims to the contrary, they don't necessarily provide better measured performance in bass smoothness. They provide a different response that may be better or worse than monopole. In my own tests I've been able to get the same driver to sound identical in a sealed box in an AB comparison. I see more benefit in the midrange if it suits your preferences.

 

Another aspect of the sound is the drivers. High sensitivity fullrange drivers with whizzer cones do tend to quite their own personality. They are often fragile devices that don't handle power or high output well. High sensitivity means less power is required, but many of these drivers will complain and sound "prematurely loud." In other words, the point at which you feel the need to lower the volume to avoid listener fatigue often comes sooner than with other options. Top end with whizzer cone speakers is often very ragged in frequency response, and the treble can often be exaggerated. These drivers have cone breakup in their passband, where in conventional design it's pushed above the passband and filtered out in the crossover.

 

As a general rule, this is what you can expect with this type of driver.

 

I call this type of kit an "enthusiast's speaker," meaning they have a personality that will best suit those who are tolerant of their flaws and beguiled by their strengths. If you are a fan of classical music, have a "take it or leave it" attitude towards sharp imaging, listen at modest levels or often not sitting in the sweet spot, this could be for you. Likewise, if this just sticks out as a project you'd like to try like a DIY audio tourist, then go for it. Every DIYer should tackle or hear an open baffle speaker at some point at least once.

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