Guest Mr Thorens Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Since making a post or two about my Lenco I've received a few PMs from fellow SNA'ers asking the odd question. Although there's a wealth of information on Lenco Heaven, I thought some localised information and sharing of tips and traps and experiences generally. I myself acquired a stock old L70 on Christoss holidays at a country town, sitting as part of a HMV stereo grams since then I've spent many many hours tinkering. It can be both frustrating and rewarding. The sorts of things we could cover in this thread might include: - tonearm and mounting - plinths - bolting and dampening - lubrication - cartridges - bearings etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Thorens Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Now here is a starting topic. Resonance and arm mounting. Fellow member was saying there was distortion on pianos. As it turned out I did have similar issues myself. It was quite a mystery. In my case the distortion on piano - like a kind of forward irritating ringing - ended up being a sort of resonance coming through. Made it sound sharp and shrill. Really bothered me. Then what I discovered were two causes. Firstly mounting of the arm to the top plate directly. Causes amplified resonance. Cure - mounting the arm with foam washers top and bottom to isolate the arm from the top plate. My second issue was headshell wiring related. I was using some stiff Litz wire that was also resonating. I fixed that by replacing with standard headshell wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Thorens Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Another issue I has was getting the right sound from the plinth mounting. I have one of those 20kg units from Moldova. Beautifully crafted, I am amazed something so nice could arrive so cheaply. Anyway, I did all the things suggested in another forum including dampening the underside space of the top plate with foam to reduce resonance. In my case this wasn't a good thing, I felt it flattened te sound and took away the dynamics and space. The mids became grey and recessed. The channel separation and soundstage shrunk. The same thing happened when I used 50mm (long) screws to secure the top plate to the plinth. And when I used screws under the platter to fix to the into the sound went really grey. So now I only use 25mm screws in the three corners of the top plate and that's it. Thus I feel you can actually over dampen the top plate and takes away the micro dynamics and sparkle, makes the mids go grey and reduces the soundstage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Thorens Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Comparison of Lenco to Thorens Here are some notes I made recently when doing an A/B comparison. Lenco L70, FR54 tonearm, Ortofon Rondo Bronze cart. Vs Thorens TD321, Rega RB300 arm, Ortofon Rondo Bronze cart. Lenco Less forward and less sibilant. Not that the Thorens has a problem, it's that you notice it when it's gone. In fact sibilance has disappeared with the Lenco and I'm hearing significantly better decay and more microdynamics. Channel separation slightly wider. Soundstage 3D is much deeper. More relaxed and better detail retrieval. Quieter. Tapping of cymbals more delicate. Bass lines are very distinct and easily picked out of the mix. There's little details and reverb on vocals I couldn't pick out with the 321. Piano sounds more like piano. Sax sounds more like sax not grated not noisy. Lenco very natural and breathes. Very powerful sound lots of body, rhythm and pace. Bass lines very well separated and distinct without overhang. Very transparent like listening to master tape, revealing. Image is rock solid. Lots if realism and very dynamic. The Thorens TD321 in comparison is similar tonally but with a degree of forward ness and a bit of warmth and a slight bit of brightness. This is most likely due to the Rega RB300 arm on it, which isn't bad, but not at the same level as the Fidelity Research (note this became a really obvious point when I mounted the Rega arm on the a Lenco deck vs the FR arm. The FR was way superior, the Rega shrunk the soundstage and sounded a bit forward.). The characteristic Rega arm sound is slightly forward and slightly edgy sound not quite a relaxed presentation as such. A tiny bit of sibilance on the alto sax and flute. Bass is present and quite good but not as distinct or as fast as the Lenco. Soundstage is there but a little bit compressed and less open than the Lenco. Again, may well be partly arm related. Top end and upper mids nice and pleasant on jazz and slower material but a bit compressed on heavier rock. Sweet but not as clean overall. Upper mids quite brash and edgy at times. Note there isn't anything wrong with the Thirens TD321, it's a great deck let down by the Rega arm IMHO. However the Lenco was another level altogether. I have since replaced the RB300 arm on the Thorens with a rewired RB250 with a heavy counterweight. This did clean up the sound quite a lot. More extension at top and bottom, cleaner mids and a better sense of space. Still not in the Lenco league, but very much an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundfan Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Have you tried a Lenco with a PTP plate yet? A big step forward in my experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awty Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) I bought the deck only and made a plinth using poly resin and bentonite clay in an approximate 40/60 mix and weighing in at 17kg plinth only. I counter sunk the deck and bolted the 4 corners and used the central threaded nuts on the L78 so I had a total of 6 fixings, then I used a thin layer of plasticine to fill any gaps. The deck is well and truly dampened. Too much? maybe. I havent tried it any other way as its a pain to get a part. I initially bought a stock arm that I rebuilt and rewired. Tried 4 different carts and the only one that I could find that worked was a Shure V15 III. Sounded pretty good. Replaced it recently with a RB 300 that had been rewired with Litz wires, Micheal Lim counter weight, rebearinged with high quality German bearings and all the VTF stuff removed, running a Goldring HOMC. Of course the bloody thing was too tall, so I added some packers, raised the bearing a smidgen and used the thick stock rubber mat. Sounded pretty ordinary, so I purchased a 6mm, 3kg stainless steel platter mat. That made all the difference. Initially I stuck a thin kangaroo leather mat on top, but then flipped it over and now just put the record straight onto the stainless with a 400 gram puck on top. Sounds really good now, big open sound stage and very musical. Just need to get a better phonostage and then enjoy for a little bit, before I do something else. Yes I think you could have too much dampening, if you dont do anything with the standard platter (rings like a bell). Think thats why I think the later decks were sprung and why stacked platters sound better. Edited March 31, 2014 by awty 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchu Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I thought some localised information and sharing of tips and traps and experiences generally. Great idea, and timely too as I've just picked up my first Lenco. L75, 100% stock at this stage but getting some ideas together for improvements thanks to SNA and Lenco Heaven. Seeing as the plinth is in quite good condition I think I'll fill it in rather than build/buy a new one. I found some scrap ply at work which should do the job so should be a cheap upgrade. I'm tossing up between upgrading the arm and keeping my cart (Garrott K3), or keeping the Lenco arm and upgrading the cart (maybe a Denon DL103). I don't think I'll have funds to do both unfortunately. Arm wise I'd be looking for something that's more or less drop in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awty Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Have you tried a Lenco with a PTP plate yet? A big step forward in my experience. Think thats the best way of isolating the motor/bearing/tonearm and if I seriously want to get the best out of my lenco, thats what I would do in the future.....that and adding a ss mat. I'm worried all this lenco talk is driving up the price and the chance of buying a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaspeedy Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Second pic a quirky L75 from a friend in Indonesia (look closer!) First my daily runner. Fantastic turntables so cleverly designed. Edited April 1, 2014 by Omegaspeedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 part way through 2nd Lenco build. this one will have PTP top plate and a new bearing by Jolly from Lencoheaven. may use 2 platers as pic? top and bottom plates 10mm aluminium, middle 2x 25mm, hdpe. will use SME 3 arm now may upgrade later if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Thorens Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Some very nice pictures and stories here. If anyone wants to compare the sound of their Lenco, I'm happy to send a few hi res mp3s of mine to try. Just send me a PM. I'm obviously happy to receive some examples for comparison too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truongnguyenduc Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I have mp3 samples of the original unmodified Lenco with Denon 103, ShureM95, Ortofon OM5e. My phono is the old classic NAD3020. If you want to know if the original sound suits your taste or you need to upgrade, send me PM. As pointed out by Mr.Thorens, there are things to do with my deck to transform it to a superb deck. Thanks MrThorens. @Mr.Thorens: after some reading in the internet this morning, some people say that the old NAD has roll off treble to. So my Denon dl103 and/or NAD can be the reasons for a bit lack of treble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchu Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 - Linn Akito bought and hopefully in the post from UK for my L75 (Seller also offered to throw in a Goldring 1042 cartridge when I asked for advice on a good match for the Akito. . just need to get a stylus.) - Some 'free' pieces 18mm PLY found at work. Probably enough to make a whole plinth, but my plan is still just to fill in the original. Will keep you all posted on developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaky Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I had started on a plinth for my L75, a Leak ( a Lenco under another name) I bought last year. Life in one form or another has led me away from working on it lately but I will get back to it. It's all here: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/54027-a-small-vinyl-step/?hl=%2Bsmall+%2Bvinyl+%2Bstep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upfront Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I had started on a plinth for my L75, a Leak ( a Lenco under another name) I bought last year. Life in one form or another has led me away from working on it lately but I will get back to it. It's all here: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/54027-a-small-vinyl-step/?hl=%2Bsmall+%2Bvinyl+%2Bstep Get into it mate! I for one am looking forward to seeing it finished! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchu Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 My L75 with recent addition of a Linn Akito tonearm. Mounting at the moment is a little dodgy. I've used the original Lenco flange/mount, which is a few mm larger diameter than the Akito post, but shorter so arm height is correct. It's shimmed with some plastic (film canister) for now, but I'll work out proper mounting when I get around to filling the plinth internals with ply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaky Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Nice one. Good to see updates here. What cart you using with it? But most importantly, how does it sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchu Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Nice one. Good to see updates here. What cart you using with it? But most importantly, how does it sound? It a Shure M75-6S, and sounds surprisingly good. It came on the Lenco when I bought it, but I quickly replaced with my Garrott Bros K3. Unfortunately the K3 died not long after I changed the arm, so I didn't have much chance to compare Lenco arm to the Akito with the same cart. It certainly looks better IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankn Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 I'm about to become a Lenco owner, I'll post a pic as soon as I've got it Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankn Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Ok it's home Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elcamry Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Nice condition . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaky Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 That's a nice Lenco. Very good condition. Think I spy a Lencoclean mount rear left of platter. How's the arm on it? Bearings ok? Weight at rear not sagging too much? Have you got it up and going yet? I'm sure I have other questions. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankn Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Hi Shaky Haven't had any time to check anything yet - the owner hasn't used it in a while, maybe a couple of years. This is a longer term project I think Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaky Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Fair enough. Pull the arm apart and check the v blocks for wear, easily replaced as they come up on eBay from time to time. Perhaps a 3D printed set would be an option if you have access to one. Jump on Lencoheaven for great written guides (with pics) on refurbishing the bearing and motor if you want to go that way. But most of all have fun. A lovely solid TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upfront Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 http://www.ebay.de/itm/261495388536 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151304390724 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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