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I thought the Convoy JBL room/speakers sounded great at last years show. 4367 was really good.

 

 

Edited by Darren69

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The K2 or the Everest @Darren69?

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14 minutes ago, Marc said:

The K2 or the Everest @Darren69?

Off memory the Everest (side x side woofers etc) were in the Melody room but am not up to speed on all of the JBL model numberings/id's etc. The Melody room didn't sound that great, even to my non-phile ears. Not accusing anyone or any thing, just how it is at such shows sometimes.

 

I think the Convoy room had the 4367's and a pair of K2 S9900's (?) Both sounded bloody awesome anyhow. :D 

 

But it was also a different room, not as much side glass and nice high ceilings.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Marc said:

And with that said, having lived with K2s for quite some time, it took me over a year to get the placement right in regards to bass output. Being rear ported, the relationship and distance with the wall behind them is critical.

For front ported speakers, it probably makes very little to virtually no difference (compared to rear ported speakers) as the bass frequencies that emanate from the ports is typically omni-directional.

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21 hours ago, Darren69 said:

I have tried the DEQX HDP4 previously, set up by Alan Langford himself sitting in my listening possie. Later on when I tried other non-DSP components, I found I preferred the sound without any DSP, as a whole. DSP seemed to taker something away and I don't know what that is.

This is a tough one because DSP is typically changing what you hear, that's it's purpose.

So I think it's difficult to separate what it's intended to take away (e.g. the affect of bass peaks) versus the "other stuff", presuming it is.

The audiophile mind is a thing of wonder, it's very easy from the outset to be sitting there thinking something like "DSP Bad, DSP Bad, DSP Bad...".

I think a negative mindset is likely to translate into a negative experience.

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2 hours ago, Satanica said:

For front ported speakers, it probably makes very little to virtually no difference (compared to rear ported speakers) as the bass frequencies that emanate from the ports is typically omni-directional.

There is often an unintended side effect with ports that people don't tend to consider. Ports interact with tweeters and mids due to diffraction. Sometimes this can be a pest when it comes to designing the crossover.

 

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... or also that it's not always just "bass frequencies" coming out of a port.

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On 27/06/2018 at 2:13 PM, Darren69 said:

I have tried the DEQX HDP4 previously, set up by Alan Langford himself sitting in my listening possie. Later on when I tried other non-DSP components, I found I preferred the sound without any DSP, as a whole. DSP seemed to taker something away and I don't know what that is. So, have been there done that but thank you for the suggestion.

With DSP it is very easy to "fix" the response so it is flat on one axis .... but to make it worse in other respects.

 

How the DSP is used is a much bigger factor in the performance than people credit.

 

It would have been interesting to see before/after charts of the system performance to be able to comment on what happened.   Were you given that?

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17 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

With DSP it is very easy to "fix" the response so it is flat on one axis .... but to make it worse in other respects.

 

How the DSP is used is a much bigger factor in the performance than people credit.

 

It would have been interesting to see before/after charts of the system performance to be able to comment on what happened.   Were you given that?

Nup, didn't request it either.

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Guest kab

You must match the speaker to the room its just simple physics

get it right and everything else will fall into place,saves you a lot of heartache not to mention money.

Edited by kab

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You must match the speaker to the room its just simple physics

I think it has more to do with how good the acoustics are in the room than the room size itself, yes a larger speaker will create more energy and potentially cause issues but this isn't necessarily a problem if the room is acoustically treated properly.  

Think about a car with high end stereo, sub's etc... 

 

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I think in todays designs what speaker designer would not take the average listening room into account. I think people are using the room as an excuse to justify saying I spent 50,000 grand on a speaker and it sounds just like a 5000 dollar speaker. They blame the room but how good can a really expensive  speaker sound compared to a realistically priced one. They pretty much use the same drivers and design its just marketing after that. My missus said after taking her to the HiFi show that shouldn't the expensive speakers make any basic room sound great. 

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On 26/06/2018 at 2:51 PM, Darren69 said:

So would we think JBL's are tonally balanced for crap metal and rock recordings in an average room? Would their lovely big woofers help me out with more bass?

 

@yamaha_man has stayed true to his label and put the big Yammies forward. What JBL's rock out? I know the 4367's do. Any other decent sized floorstanders?

Mate, forget the new. Get the Blue.

Image result for jbl 4435

Edited by Wimbo

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2 hours ago, Red Spade Audio said:

There is often an unintended side effect with ports that people don't tend to consider. Ports interact with tweeters and mids due to diffraction. Sometimes this can be a pest when it comes to designing the crossover.

 

Hello Paul. Could you expand on this point a little more please, for my benefit? How does this diffraction occur? How would you change a crossover to deal with it?

 

I was reading the comments from The Boss on his K2 with its rear port. As far as I can tell, from the way bass frequencies emanate from a port, it should make no difference, to the bass response and room interaction, whether the port is on the front, bottom (with a sufficient gap) or back of a speaker. What are your thoughts on this?

 

Regards

Grant

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Guest kab
2 hours ago, murrmax said:

I think it has more to do with how good the acoustics are in the room than the room size itself, yes a larger speaker will create more energy and potentially cause issues but this isn't necessarily a problem if the room is acoustically treated properly.  

Think about a car with high end stereo, sub's etc... 

 

Sorry have to disagree 

getting the low frequencies right is number 1 regardless of room size/treatments etc

everything else follows

Edited by kab

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20 minutes ago, Grant Slack said:

Hello Paul. Could you expand on this point a little more please, for my benefit? How does this diffraction occur? How would you change a crossover to deal with it?

Any edge or bump on a speaker (eg. a port, or a driver, or an edge) will produce a new sound wave (diffraction) ...  When summed with the original sound, the result will be a peak or dip in the response.

 

The EQ (eg. a crossover filter) to the speaker can be adjusted to compensate for this (eg. remove the peak or dip).   However as the diffraction effect is not the same at each place you observe the speaker from.... then whether to flatten the diffraction peak or dip based on the listening position response is not a simple question.

 

This is an example of my reply to Daren earlier, saying that DSP, used to arbitrarily flatten the speaker from a single (or low number of) measurement position - can sometimes have a poor result.

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getting the low frequencies right is number 1 regardless of room size/treatments etc

Well the only way to get the low frequencies right is to use proper sized bass drivers i.e 12, 15 or 18 +  inch ... 

casse-JBL-4355-550x302.jpg

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1 hour ago, murrmax said:

Well the only way to get the low frequencies right is to use proper sized bass drivers i.e 12, 15 or 18 +  inch ... 

casse-JBL-4355-550x302.jpg

Good example of what not to do 

 

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Yes not optimal, but matching speaker size and room size is a myth. The elephant is the room, worth watching the first 5 minutes or so ..

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, murrmax said:

 

Yes not optimal, but matching speaker size and room size is a myth. The elephant is the room, worth watching the first 5 minutes or so ..

 

 

 

 

Interesting thanks @murrmax Being someone who has relatively large speakers in a small room I tended to agree with what they were saying however the only thing i will add is the fact small rooms limit speaker/listener distance and some larger speakers with multiple drivers requires a certain optimal listening distance for optimal coherence which cannot always be achieved in a smaller room.

 

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28 minutes ago, Tubularbells said:

 

Interesting thanks @murrmax Being someone who has relatively large speakers in a small room I tended to agree with what they were saying however the only thing i will add is the fact small rooms limit speaker/listener distance and some larger speakers with multiple drivers requires a certain optimal listening distance for optimal coherence which cannot always be achieved in a smaller room.

 

I used to think the same, but I've heard a couple of horn systems (JBL everest clones) where the seating position is essentially near field.

The imaging and coherence was astounding, no issues at all. 

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57 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:
I used to think the same, but I've heard a couple of horn systems (JBL everest clones) where the seating position is essentially near field.
The imaging and coherence was astounding, no issues at all. 

IME near field listening is a completely different experience with a completey different set of rules. Whether that's because the room and its relationship to the speakers is less of an issue, I am not sure (but I suspect this is the reason). Someone like Paul, with a solid grasp of all things acoustics, can probably offer a better explanation.

I've found it much easier to set up and listen to just about any speaker in a near field application.

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7 minutes ago, Marc said:

IME near field listening is a completely different experience with a completey different set of rules. Whether that's because the room and its relationship to the speakers is less of an issue, I am not sure. Someone like Paul, with a solid grasp of all things acoustics, can probably offer a better explanation.

I've found it much easier to set up and listen to just about any speaker in a near field application.

Oh I like reading such things, my room is a glorified walk in robe. :D 

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Just watched dynaudios video and he does know what he is talking about.  From my experience,  I can say that small rooms do present major problems for hi-end speakers with very low bass.   Putting it very simply in a small room it becomes a tradeoff  between clean sound and a big open natural sound, ideally, most of us want both.

Edited by HCH
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  i agree darren, nearfield is different to a large room with a big system, have done that several times ,these days after downsizing i find the nearfield experience is quite intimate, it doesn't take much(just move the chair either way a few inches) you know when you have got it and sit there with a big smile on your face.

me750 005.JPG

me750 004.JPG

original pics 024.JPG

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