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JBL Discussion & Owner's Thread


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2 hours ago, Willco said:

Heaven forbid Crown/(Amcron?) good PA Amps--awful Hi Fidelity ones😡  BJD in Bourke St used to push the 150/300 series ad finitum--the damn Amps

threw our more DC than Music I reckon!

 

Willco

I've repaired enough of the damn things to wholeheartedly agree. Well, let's face it, Harman have to recommend Crown don't they!

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I love my K2s. A few people who have been here more recently now I have them dialled in to within a inch of their lives would most probably agree how dynamic, and engaging they can be.   And

Unboxed to try at home a pristine pair of S3900s

Indeed a lot of it can be R&D.... but there are also other overheads to recover....and it isnt the same for every product...   cant talk speakers specifically.... but having worked in ma

Will keep an eye on the TAD developments that Joe posted earlier but am thinking of going JBL, was in a possie to get some 4367's a little while back but the seller didn't respond for whatever reason and the world turned again. My Lenehan ML5's are very revealing, they are excellent speakers but as we know, garbage in-garbage out and I listen to garbage. Well, I listen to awesome music made with crap mastering and garbage sound engineers. :D 

 

I might be wrong but I think JBL's might be better for my rock and metal. Will try a few changes in the front end first though. Am going to go back to a more mid fi setup I think, hi fi doesn't suit the material I like.

 

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3 hours ago, Darren69 said:

I might be wrong but I think JBL's might be better for my rock and metal. Will try a few changes in the front end first though. Am going to go back to a more mid fi setup I think, hi fi doesn't suit the material I like.

I mean this with respect, but I really think you've gotten yourself lost in this music playback hobby if you think that lower fidelity with provide something better overall for you.

Try and explain what it is about your current system that doesn't quite do enough for you regarding rock/metal?

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13 minutes ago, Satanica said:

I mean this with respect, but I really think you've gotten yourself lost in this music playback hobby if you think that lower fidelity with provide something better overall for you.

Try and explain what it is about your current system that doesn't quite do enough for you regarding rock/metal?

Don't want to derail the thread but most of my music now sounds harsh due to how revealing the system is of the recording and most (I reckon 80%) of my recordings are very average. And as you know, have given most things a try. But my room is average as well and that's not going to change soon, not without a Lotto win. So, am going to do some rabbit-hole withdrawal. :D 

 

Hopefully get back to being a music lover like I was years ago with a Sony Integrated complete with equaliser and some Bose Studiocraft 1000 floorstanders.

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4 minutes ago, Darren69 said:

Don't want to derail the thread but most of my music now sounds harsh due to how revealing the system is of the recording and most (I reckon 80%) of my recordings are very average. And as you know, have given most things a try. But my room is average as well and that's not going to change soon, not without a Lotto win. So, am going to do some rabbit-hole withdrawal. :D 

 

Hopefully get back to being a music lover like I was years ago with a Sony Integrated complete with equaliser and some Bose Studiocraft 1000 floorstanders.

 

Sorry Darren. You are only allowed to listen to Diana Krall and Steely Dan records from now on. It's the only solution.

 

 

 

😛

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24 minutes ago, Darren69 said:

Don't want to derail the thread but most of my music now sounds harsh due to how revealing the system is of the recording and most (I reckon 80%) of my recordings are very average. And as you know, have given most things a try. But my room is average as well and that's not going to change soon, not without a Lotto win. So, am going to do some rabbit-hole withdrawal. :D 

 

Hopefully get back to being a music lover like I was years ago with a Sony Integrated complete with equaliser and some Bose Studiocraft 1000 floorstanders.

OK, it's good that you can explain what you don't like. I think you most likely need more and more even bass, and less high frequency reflection. I think that your favourite music might be better produced than you give credit for. And most importantly your predicted next course of action(s) might not achieve what you want. Those JBL's might be a lot closer to the fidelity of your current speakers than you give credit for, who knows without any real objective information they may be superior. As I too mainly listen to metal/rock I think the whole "too much fidelity is a bad thing for the genre" is simply not true.

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1 hour ago, Darren69 said:

most of my music now sounds harsh due to how revealing the system is of the recording and most (I reckon 80%) of my recordings are very average.

I have known that feeling for years, the main reason I have kept these.

They are more forgiving on a **** mix.

AF19255F-78F7-4625-BD67-11405C504E8E.jpeg

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This resembles a conversation I've had many times over:

 

4 hours ago, Darren69 said:

I might be wrong but I think JBL's might be better for my rock and metal. Will try a few changes in the front end first though. Am going to go back to a more mid fi setup I think, hi fi doesn't suit the material I like.

 

1 hour ago, Satanica said:

I mean this with respect, but I really think you've gotten yourself lost in this music playback hobby if you think that lower fidelity with provide something better overall for you.

Try and explain what it is about your current system that doesn't quite do enough for you regarding rock/metal?

 

1 hour ago, Darren69 said:

Don't want to derail the thread but most of my music now sounds harsh due to how revealing the system is of the recording and most (I reckon 80%) of my recordings are very average. 

 

The experience goes something like this. You have fairly conventional and well regarded hifi box speakers in a fairly normal room. Reference tracks (the kind you hear at hifi shows) sound great but the music you love sounds terrible. I have many clients asking if room treatment can fix this problem. My answer after listening to their system and then testing their room is very often that treatment will often give an improvement but this isn't primarily a room acoustics issue. I find that it's usually about the relationship between their speakers and their music. Put simply, they don't like the tonal balance of their speakers. The solutions most likely to help are:

  • different speakers (sometimes you've chosen speakers that just don't suit)
  • modifying your speakers (many ways to do this including adjusting placement and toe in, crossover changes or EQ)

If the speakers in question are not in some way flawed, the issue may simply be a question of tonal balance.

 

I think it could surprise many people to realise how dramatically you can change a speaker, from unlistenable to engaging and musical.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Red Spade Audio said:

Reference tracks (the kind you hear at hifi shows) sound great but the music you love sounds terrible.

In this case though I believe we're not just talking about different levels of recording quality, but different genres.

How often does metal get played at hifi shows and/or is considered reference?

A lot of that "reference material" doesn't place the physical demands that metal can on speakers.

A lot of rooms have too much reverberation for metal but might actually create a nice ambience with that slow and simple "reference material" (one chick and her acoustic guitar).

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19 minutes ago, Red Spade Audio said:

I think it could surprise many people to realise how dramatically you can change a speaker, from unlistenable to engaging and musical.

@Paul Spencer I definitely agree with you! Which is part of the reason there really is no ideal speaker that everyone will like under all conditions... trust your ears, and don't be afraid to stray from what others tell you is right ;)

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3 minutes ago, m8audio said:

@Paul Spencer I definitely agree with you! Which is part of the reason there really is no ideal speaker that everyone will like under all conditions... trust your ears, and don't be afraid to stray from what others tell you is right ;)

I think you misunderstood, unless I'm wrong Red Spade was referring to changing a speaker from unlistenable to engaging and musical; not changing speakers.

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  • modifying your speakers (many ways to do this including adjusting placement and toe in, crossover changes or EQ)

 If the speakers in question are not in some way flawed, the issue may simply be a question of tonal balance.

 

 I think it could surprise many people to realise how dramatically you can change a speaker, from unlistenable to engaging and musical.

+1

 

I found room reflections affecting the midband was problematic at decent volume levels,  I found closed curtains and more acoustic padding/ less reflective surfaces really makes a big difference - especially at louder volumes  and adjusting EQ for different types of music (when being pedantic)..if you have dsp 

 

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31 minutes ago, Red Spade Audio said:

If the speakers in question are not in some way flawed, the issue may simply be a question of tonal balance.

@Satanica same same... the issue is tonal balance unless the speaker is flawed.

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3 hours ago, Pieface said:

 

Sorry Darren. You are only allowed to listen to Diana Krall and Steely Dan records from now on. It's the only solution.

 

 

 

😛

And tin pan alley....ad nauseam....:emot-bang:

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So would we think JBL's are tonally balanced for crap metal and rock recordings in an average room? Would their lovely big woofers help me out with more bass?

 

@yamaha_man has stayed true to his label and put the big Yammies forward. What JBL's rock out? I know the 4367's do. Any other decent sized floorstanders?

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17 minutes ago, m8audio said:

@Satanica same same... the issue is tonal balance unless the speaker is flawed.

That might not be the actual case here. I'm not saying you're wrong, but with the information provided I don't know how you could know to be right. Of course regarding "harshness" this could be caused by a multitude of factors, "tonal balance" just one of them.

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4 minutes ago, Darren69 said:

So would we think JBL's are tonally balanced for crap metal and rock recordings in an average room? Would their lovely big woofers help me out with more bass?

Regarding tonal balance, this can be changed with EQ and possibly other things.

I was reading a thread just the other day where a couple of members here have a "house curve" where 20Hz is about 10db higher than 20Khz. @almikel @davewantsmoore

More bass is best done by sub-woofers, they do it better than mains simply because they can be placed in more optimal positions in the room and usually have their own amplification.

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15 minutes ago, Satanica said:

That might not be the actual case here. I'm not saying you're wrong, but with the information provided I don't know how you could know to be right. Of course regarding "harshness" this could be caused by a multitude of factors, "tonal balance" just one of them.

@Satanica I completely agree with you! Speaking very general terms here mainly on why metal may not work well on some systems. Of course many many factors are in play, yes we're in comple agreement... I think 😏

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Knowing Daz's preferred listening volume is off the charts, I suspect the volume is definitely too loud for the room.

I have found that a room has an ideal volume, and can vary for album to album, and with metal having plenty of bass (usually) the SQ deterioration will be greater, IMO.

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More bass is best done by sub-woofers, they do it better than mains simply because they can be placed in more optimal positions in the room and usually have their own amplification.

 

Quality not quantity, not that you can't have good subs but imho 15 or 18 inch bass drivers should be perfect for rock & metal ..more punch, less rumble (that's why JBL's are good at it..) 

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2 hours ago, Satanica said:

In this case though I believe we're not just talking about different levels of recording quality, but different genres.

How often does metal get played at hifi shows and/or is considered reference?

A lot of that "reference material" doesn't place the physical demands that metal can on speakers.

A lot of rooms have too much reverberation for metal but might actually create a nice ambience with that slow and simple "reference material" (one chick and her acoustic guitar).

Puscifer gets played at least every hour, tool's prison sex at least 4 times a day and noisia is available for those that request a little light relief when we do the shows so not everyone likes small jazz ensemble pieces.

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7 minutes ago, guru said:

Puscifer gets played at least every hour, tool's prison sex at least 4 times a day and noisia is available for those that request a little light relief when we do the shows so not everyone likes small jazz ensemble pieces.

Who's we? And I did not need to be told that I don't like "small jazz ensemble pieces". :shifty:

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6 minutes ago, Satanica said:

Who's we? And I did not need to be told that I don't like "small jazz ensemble pieces". :shifty:

What does it say at the bottom of the posting as to the products we distribute, hence the we in exhibiting at hifi shows. I have no idea what your music preferences are so why would I tell you what you like or don't like. The reply came from your generalising as to the type of music you perceived as being played by retailers/ distributors at shows, I chose to offer an alternative view based of actual playlist material.

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8 minutes ago, guru said:

What does it say at the bottom of the posting as to the products we distribute, hence the we in exhibiting at hifi shows. I have no idea what your music preferences are so why would I tell you what you like or don't like. The reply came from your generalising as to the type of music you perceived as being played by retailers/ distributors at shows, I chose to offer an alternative view based of actual playlist material.

So do you consider Puscifer and Tool - Prison Sex "reference material" ? As for you having no idea my music preferences, you obviously didn't read or pay attention to my post(s) in this very thread. Will you be at the HiFi Show this year?

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3 minutes ago, Satanica said:

So do you consider Puscifer and Tool - Prison Sex "reference material" ? As for you having no idea my music preferences, you obviously didn't read or pay attention to my post(s) in this very thread. Will you be at the HiFi Show this year?

I bought my current pair of speakers based on one song which was a perfect circle's the package and as for reference material, I just listen to music and whatever is playing, any recording is valid as someone has invested time and effort and money just so they can get a voice out there. It's all material.

one show only.

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8 hours ago, Darren69 said:

I might be wrong but I think JBL's might be better for my rock and metal. Will try a few changes in the front end first though. Am going to go back to a more mid fi setup I think, hi fi doesn't suit the material I like.

 

Such has been my path mate. Many speakers in and a bag of money later I finally realised what I was really after in a speaker and if I had only one word to describe it it would be immersion. In other words to be engaged and coupled to the music both physically and mentally and to this my old dog JBL's are perfect. Technically though I bet (in fact I know) they're well behind a lot of current designs but I dont care. They also image like no other speakers ive owned making the back wall or in my case the fireplace completely disappear and yeah they go loud too which is a bonus but not necessary to get full enjoyment from them. 

 

Best of all they didn't cost me a a five figure sum. If your set on pursuing the path id suggest going vintage. Other magical moments I had with other speakers were with @unclemack's Duntech Crown Princes which also had that 'meaty' sound that suits rock/metal so well.

 

And to get REALLY controversial perhaps a toe dip into vinyl. Seriously bloke most digital Maiden ive heard sounds pants where as an original vinyl record can sound awesome. Its not the medium its the mastering I think that makes all the difference. Let me play you the vinyl re-issue of Somewhere in time Vs. an original UK pressing and i'll be picking up pieces of you skull all over the house! (yeah the original wins by a large margin)

 

That said you really need to spend time in the church (a confessional of sorts) to see where your head and more importantly your hearts at.

 

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I'm not touching vinyl @Tubularbells , my OCD would also cause skull fragments to scatter. :D 

 

Though I don't doubt your words and am sure the spinning liquorice pies are all over the Metal thread for a reason.

 

I like your vintage suggestion, maybe that is the sound I want as it is the sound I grew up with, I guess.

 

Would I blow the $hit out of them though? :D 

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4 hours ago, Darren69 said:

So would we think JBL's are tonally balanced for crap metal and rock recordings in an average room? Would their lovely big woofers help me out with more bass?

 

@yamaha_man has stayed true to his label and put the big Yammies forward. What JBL's rock out? I know the 4367's do. Any other decent sized floorstanders?

Keep an eye out for the older L7 model. Good quality drivers.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, husq2100 said:

Keep an eye out for the older L7 model. Good quality drivers.

 

 

Handle 400W up em? Also, my remote has no breathalyzer :D .

 

This one?

 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/clayton/speakers/jbl-l7-top-of-range-4-way-34-1kg-each-made-in-usa-floor-speaker/1187759250

 

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Guest jakeyb77
1 hour ago, Darren69 said:

Hey @Darren69 I was gonna say that Bells and I and you probably have a similar music need. As we know I’ve had an array of speakers through here. To head off the nay-sayers-No I haven’t tried them all. 

My JBLs are the only speaker I have had that do it all. My mate Mike Smith sold them all at Intersound. His choice in retirement? S4700. @ray4410 loves his JBL. I also have NS-1000’s and love them but I can’t play Zeppelin on them. Yes they do jazz and classical which I also love but trust me the JBL’s do that too. Don’t need subs either. 

For me I’m gonna sit my 4435’s, S4600 and NS-1000 together and I have it all covered. I don’t think what I’m lacking anymore. I just sit there and smile. But that’s me. 

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Array 1400 would be another great choice but very few would have been sold in Oz. I did see a pair of mint 240Ti go for $250 on Gumtree...If they were close to me I would have scooped them!

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9 hours ago, Darren69 said:

http://lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1992-l-series.htm

 

yep thats them.... have seen go for a bit cheaper though

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I don't hear much about the S4700's in Oz, anyone had experience in their own homes? I demo's a pair some time back as previously posted, but I don't know anyone who has lived with a pair. There aren't a lot of reviews either, not that they tell you much apart from how awesome everything is.

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I don't hear much about the S4700's in Oz, anyone had experience in their own homes? I demo's a pair some time back as previously posted, but I don't know anyone who has lived with a pair. There aren't a lot of reviews either, not that they tell you much apart from how awesome everything is.

What is your current digital source? Might be interesting to implement a target curve via a mini-dsp or software playback to see if that addresses your issues.
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29 minutes ago, zydeco said:


What is your current digital source? Might be interesting to implement a target curve via a mini-dsp or software playback to see if that addresses your issues.

I have tried the DEQX HDP4 previously, set up by Alan Langford himself sitting in my listening possie. Later on when I tried other non-DSP components, I found I preferred the sound without any DSP, as a whole. DSP seemed to taker something away and I don't know what that is. So, have been there done that but thank you for the suggestion.

 

Current dac is the Meridian 808.3i but am going to try out the Ayon Sigma very soon.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Darren69 said:

So would we think JBL's are tonally balanced for crap metal and rock recordings in an average room? Would their lovely big woofers help me out with more bass?

Larger woofers as used by JBL will tend to give you more sensitivity and therefore more dynamic range. They will play louder. Often this will come at the cost of depth. Whether that's a good thing depends on the room. Sometimes less bass extension can mean a room doesn't boom as much.

23 hours ago, Satanica said:

That might not be the actual case here. I'm not saying you're wrong, but with the information provided I don't know how you could know to be right. Of course regarding "harshness" this could be caused by a multitude of factors, "tonal balance" just one of them.

Yes, it's quite difficult to appreciate what is really going on based on what people post on a forum.

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I’m late to this topic, but whilst I’m not a massive fan of some of the JBL audiophilish speakers, the pro monitors like the LSR 6332 are exceptionally good for a box speaker. The active versions have DSP so you can target curve to your heart’s content.

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I was told recently by someone in the know, the choice between K2 and Everest should simply be made on room size alone. For my room, K2 is ideal, which leaves only very large spaces suitable for Everest IMO.

 

And with that said, having lived with K2s for quite some time, it took me over a year to get the placement right in regards to bass output. Being rear ported, the relationship and distance with the wall behind them is critical. As Paul Spencer suggested, this will effect depth of the soundstage as well. Perhaps even a little sacrifice of depth.

 

This is why I am fan of floor facing ports, and a tuned distance to a plinth (eg. Bowers & Wilkins 800). Setup is easy and far more forgiving, in room.

 

But what I can say is that now having placement right, I can guarantee that at the shows the K2 have appeared at in Australia, none have been set up correctly and at their optimum. When you get it right, they are phenomenal speakers. When you don't, they could be any floorstanding speaker and of much less cost. Sadly at shows, exhibitors often have only a very short time in which to set up, and many speakers are much easier and forgiving of room placement.

 

Let's hope this year's show shows JBL in a more positive light, so you all get to hear what I hear!

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