andrewp Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Really liked and agreed with the last posting. A detailed and very believable view point. I think alot of the margin is or should be aimed at the retailers door step. Ok if they are holding stock then fair comment they too have costs. But.... in alot of cases they dont! The world is a global shop and we can all shop around. The brand mentioned in the last posting is a classic example of very varied pricing in different countries! There was recently a sale here in NZ were many many thousands were chopped off their top tiered speakers and they werent old stock or run out. Im sure that retailers here in NZ that use Trademe dont always have the items they are selling in stock but will get them if you press the buy now button!! Ive purchased most of my audio pre loved..several items here and in all cases they have been accurately represented and a great sales process has followed. Maybe thats a bit off track but I do think the manufacturers arent always the bad guys...after all its their product and getting it to market costs serious $$. Thank you for reading. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I know this @:) al as personally involved in purchasing directly from small manufacturers for close to 30 years now, although at the $100-$300 retail price points. The thing with R&D is with many of these speakers/amps/streamers etc, as you say many are only making new products every 5-8 years. In my industry the collections are revamped every 6 months so the products rarely continue in production long enough to get good returns. I simply can't believe the prices for Flagship models from hi end manufacturers is anything other than marketing BS saying we took this long to perfect it, where in reality they were only putting in a couple of hours a week whilst spending most of their time developing the mainstream models, or OEM models for other brands. In the case of Focal/JBL/B&W etc, they all have house technology which differentiates them from other brands, they don't go re-inventing the wheel with each new model, most of the engineering/development is well established and known inside out. 8 minutes ago, andrewp said: Really liked and agreed with the last posting. A detailed and very believable view point. I think alot of the margin is or should be aimed at the retailers door step. Ok if they are holding stock then fair comment they too have costs. But.... in alot of cases they dont! I agree, but retail is retail and they have high rents and high staffing numbers in HiFi in comparison to the # of sales generated. Putting on my wholesalers hat on I often do get annoyed in my industry when retailers only want to buy 1 pair of shoes from me at a time and then complain about paying a surcharge (which basically covers postage) when their profit will be 5-6 times what mine will be, and I've taken the financial risk of keeping them in my warehouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, rantan said: @Marc My post is nothing of the sort and I hoped by now you would know I don't do that stuff. It is an honest opinion....................or are they now not permissible? I've come to learn, that a post can be an genuine opinion and a bit of a troll all in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 One of the cool things I love about JBL is the continued product support meaning your not left swinging in the breeze in a few years when/if replacement parts are required. Case in point are my 26yo speakers where they still manufacture OEM re-cones and compression diaphragms. Yes the older models are a bit agricultural looking but there built to be easily taken apart and worked on. Carn't say that about to many other manufacturers these days sadly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Satanica said: I've come to learn, that a post can be an genuine opinion and a bit of a troll all in one. yup, just look at the Dangers of Cycling thread... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 17 hours ago, rantan said: Question: "why JBL when there are so many better alternatives?" OK rant....suggest some... in the meantime a little reading...https://www.whathifi.com/jbl/k2-s9900/review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yamaha_man Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tasebass said: OK rant....suggest some... in the meantime a little reading...https://www.whathifi.com/jbl/k2-s9900/review I’ll say it again, TAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 hours ago, al said: It was explained to me recently probably the best with toyota ... where its a hard grind to save $1-$2 a car in manufacturing cost.... if you can save $15-$20 a car you go down in history ..... Off Topic but... Mainstream manufactures use as little as 1.25 litres of "wet" paint per car......that's Ecoat ( etch ) primer, sufacer, base colour and clear coat inclusive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted June 2, 2018 Administrator Share Posted June 2, 2018 I’ll say it again, TAD.Troll #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 hours ago, blybo said: I simply can't believe the prices for Flagship models from hi end manufacturers is anything other than marketing BS saying we took this long to perfect it, where in reality they were only putting in a couple of hours a week whilst spending most of their time developing the mainstream models, or OEM models for other brands. In the case of Focal/JBL/B&W etc, they all have house technology which differentiates them from other brands, they don't go re-inventing the wheel with each new model, most of the engineering/development is well established and known inside out. I am not so sure about that, https://www.audioadvice.com/content/2015/10/29/50-reasons-to-seriously-consider-the-new-bw-800-series/ eg the 800 series did have only 8 parts transfer over from the older model 8 years earlier with the other 868 parts being brand new. no ofcourse not I dont suspect there are engineers just dedicated to 800 series for 8 years solid. am sure they have other development involvement with the other series as well. however flagships do play an important part. think of the trickle down there has been from the 800 series even down to the cheapo chip board models at the budget end. the point is an investment of time effort, R&D does consume and investing over 8 years in it for no return till the speakers start selling then. and who is to know it will be a success then ? they have to put a lot into it to make sure it is indeed quite a step forward and indeed a success. after all its kind fo thing has to keep them in the fore for likely next 8 years ! I remember hearing the top line 800 series back in the 80s, have followed them over the years and have to say the current series is a significant improvement over previous as I have heard one series to next I dont know B&Ws financials or investor obligations but I know some family businesses that pay themselves a salary but invest all their profit back into R&D because it is their future literally.... And while i dont have insight's into audio manufacturing what I do know for instance is eg my denon flagship AV processor I had....10 years later they havent been able to replicate it. even with might of denon and marantz and its 200 engineers they obviously havent got what takes to develop a successor (something they did for 2 generations prior) ... at this point in time I cant think of anything on the market coming close to the tech power house this was. only leaves me with the thinking that I'm not sure the audio/AV manufacturing space is all that lucrative people think it is. 11 minutes ago, Tasebass said: Off Topic but... Mainstream manufactures use as little as 1.25 litres of "wet" paint per car......that's Ecoat ( etch ) primer, sufacer, base colour and clear coat inclusive.... yep i was in shock in my first day in a car plant when I realised red duco for the then equal top seller aussie family car, entailed gal dip, primer, one coat of red paint(flat) and one coat of clear on top to make it a gloss finish. years later you'll see all those cars with the clear coat peeled off.. . while others where paint wasnt scrimped on still going around with their pride upheld.... definitely get what pay for ... I have no doubt its generally also same when comes to speakers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Marc said: 1 hour ago, yamaha_man said: I’ll say it again, TAD. Troll #2 Quote comment with the intent to provoke an emotional knee jerk reaction from unsuspecting readers to engage in a fight or argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Tasebass said: OK rant....suggest some... in the meantime a little reading...https://www.whathifi.com/jbl/k2-s9900/review Ok if you want to upgrade to a gloss finish it's gonna cost ya an extra 11000 pounds!!! WoW for paint!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted June 2, 2018 Administrator Share Posted June 2, 2018 Ok if you want to upgrade to a gloss finish it's gonna cost ya an extra 11000 pounds!!![emoji38] WoW for paint!? Hence why I vinyl wrapped 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, yamaha_man said: I’ll say it again, TAD. Joe, what did you think about the equivalent JBL's at the hi fi show? The room up the stairs to the left with all the high end valve stuff (sorry, canna remember the brand). Was a lot of glass etc in the room but did you get in there? Edited June 2, 2018 by Darren69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 hours ago, joz said: Ok if you want to upgrade to a gloss finish it's gonna cost ya an extra 11000 pounds!!! WoW for paint!? ....ill do it cheaper.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yamaha_man Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Darren69 said: Joe, what did you think about the equivalent JBL's at the hi fi show? The room up the stairs to the left with all the high end valve stuff (sorry, canna remember the brand). Was a lot of glass etc in the room but did you get in there? Would like to hear them with my music selection not what they had chosen. As per the first year with that room, I walked in the walked out soon after. Suxh a waste of a system. Hope the vendors are reading this. THAT ROOMS MUSIC SUCKED! Edited June 2, 2018 by yamaha_man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Darren69 said: Joe, what did you think about the equivalent JBL's at the hi fi show? The room up the stairs to the left with all the high end valve stuff (sorry, canna remember the brand). Was a lot of glass etc in the room but did you get in there? Melody? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hensa Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 That room at the show left a lasting impression on me and not a good one from a sound perspective. The Melody gear looked amazing but the terrible music that was played and a piercing quality to the sound had me out of there fairly quickly. No doubt that system could have sounded very good but was on a hiding to nothing with that music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 23 minutes ago, Hensa said: That room at the show left a lasting impression on me and not a good one from a sound perspective. The Melody gear looked amazing but the terrible music that was played and a piercing quality to the sound had me out of there fairly quickly. No doubt that system could have sounded very good but was on a hiding to nothing with that music. Spot on Hensa. Just beautiful gear, but man, that music was awful and the system was so loud...now don't get me wrong, I love loud music, but it was piercing... I still hung around looking at the eye candy though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 9 hours ago, Kaynin said: Melody? That's the one, thanks mate, went back there in my head and drew a blank. Was walking around but someone had removed the brand name off everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husq2100 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 all I know is for what I payed for my S4600, nothng was going to come close to that sound and its a sound I like , so Im happy. But in Australia the prices seem a bit inflated compared to the US when talking JBL regarding TAD, arent they both owned by the same company ? do they share any components? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 30 minutes ago, husq2100 said: all I know is for what I payed for my S4600, nothng was going to come close to that sound and its a sound I like , so Im happy. But in Australia the prices seem a bit inflated compared to the US when talking JBL regarding TAD, arent they both owned by the same company ? do they share any components? No doubt. Let me know if you tire of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 @husq2100 I am closer, I get first dibs on the 4600's. I don't believe Harman has anything to do with TAD nor have they ever. From memory TAD was founded by former JBL engineer Bart Locanthi after Pioneer recruited him. Some of the older TAD monitors looked similar in design and driver aesthetics but they share no common drivers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren69 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 23 minutes ago, kelossus said: @husq2100 I am closer, I get first dibs on the 4600's. I don't believe Harman has anything to do with TAD nor have they ever. From memory TAD was founded by former JBL engineer Bart Locanthi after Pioneer recruited him. Some of the older TAD monitors looked similar in design and driver aesthetics but they share no common drivers. Nah, he's ages away, I am only a few hours off now the new highway is open. Kel, might be a good GTG coming up in Brissy, watch this space @Wongy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husq2100 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 9 hours ago, kelossus said: @husq2100 I am closer, I get first dibs on the 4600's. I don't believe Harman has anything to do with TAD nor have they ever. From memory TAD was founded by former JBL engineer Bart Locanthi after Pioneer recruited him. Some of the older TAD monitors looked similar in design and driver aesthetics but they share no common drivers. Sorry, brain fart.... i was thinking of Revel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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