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davidsss

Turntable Basics Part 1 - The Turntable

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The OP did a reasonable job at explaining the 3 types of tts or 'decks'. I feel that it is also very important to point out that to get into vinyl seriously  is going to involve serious bank account haemorrhaging. This 'smack' high and it can be a glorious high simply doesn't come cheap. I don't want to put anyone off but it is important to warn the novice of the cost of addiction. 

 

Even a basic vinyl system when set up properly will have you jumping. The OP should have said that irrespective of deck -  the platform it sit's on is hugely important. But first you have to identify the type of environment the system will operate in.

The room - what is the type of floor - if it's a suspended wooden floor then you have to think about using a wall shelf - then again - what is the wall made of - is a door on the other side of the wall and will it be slammed shut? Is it a reinforced concrete floor you have to deal with?

 

Two ways to deal with vibration - decoupling and mass. Any vibration that can travel up from a floor or through a wall shelf will interfere with signal reproduction. It doesn't have to be massive vibration to marr the sound.

 

I used to live in an old house that had suspended wooden floors, so I bought  a target wall shelf, which was fine until someone came in next door and slammed the street door shut, not good for the stylus or LP.

 

A reinforced concrete floor is easier to deal with - a heavy (mass) system platform and heavy slate/stone slabs and shock absorbing feet on a deck work wonders. 

 

Seriously whatever deck you want to use will give  far better results if you first get the vibration sorted, be it belt drive/idler drive or direct drive.

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Guest Muon N'

Disagree, if done smart it doesn't take a serious bank balance.

 

But agree with the importance of correct set up.

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Good decks don't come cheap, nor do good cartridges, nor a good phono stage. I run a Kenwood KD 990. I consider it a bargain as it comes with an excellent gimbal arm, it's a beautifully designed total package. I bought it before the Japanese superdecks took off in price €400 - now they are double that. My cartridge an AT 33EV I got via a special price from a new York store and shipped by a friend in Florida so no EU import taxes, $300 when the exchange rate was £1=$1.70. I could have been a mug and bought at the cheapest price in Europe at the time £549. My phono stage was a special no longer made by Kevin Edwards of Talk Electronics - an MC3, I bought it new half price when it looked like the international Ponzi scheme was going to crash in 2008 @ £600 - so the whole vinyl thing could easily have cost me over £2.5K. 

 

I know I have bought smart with all those components - the top AT cartridges easily compete with other snobbish brands that are 2-3 times more. If you buy a new deck today to compete (maybe) with the quality of the Jap superdecks of yesterday you can easily kiss off €10K. The Kenwood KD series had something that really should be included in any good deck - automatic end of side arm lift and motor turn off., a function I wouldn't want to be without.

 

But what really hammers your bank account is the actual vinyl. I bought a lot at car boot sales end of the 80s and into the 90s in the UK - think of it like a Klondyke. Also I bought audiophile vinyl new at the beginning of the 90s', the prices for that vinyl now are crazy. New vinyl now, apart from the genuine audiophile stuff  is a joke - it's all digital and often inferior to CD. With some LPs worth hundreds and a good proportion worth from £20-50 the only way that a newbie should get involved is by way of inheritance from a grandpa who was really careful with his LPs and probably had a great system he looked after.

 

 

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Just to substantiate what I said about the cost of vinyl - I think it was 99 I saw that there was a double tribute LP to Santana - Supernatural. Always having been a Santana fan from the beginning I had to have this. I can't remember now how much it cost, probably around £23 + postage - I looked it up on discogs and ebay. The vinyl is NM and I didn't bother putting it back in the plastic sleeve but the media would be rated Excellent - I like others had no idea how the price of a lot of vinyl was going to take off - try £300. A lot of the collectable 70s Rock/Jazz in VG+/NM is serious money and I do mean serious money.

 

However there is some serious good singer/songwriter and Jazz Funk that is going cheap. Don McClean - American Pie - the real Fleetwood (Pete Green) the Boston Concerts - just before he got lost on a single acid trip in San Francisco. Jazz Funk - Grover Washington - Live at the Bijou - anything on the CTI label. You like Country Freak try Pure Prairie league/Ozark Mountain Daredevils.The only real musician in the Monkees - Micky Nesmith all his stuff is good. The beginning of Punk - try Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters. Staright ahead Texas RnR try Colonel Codie and the Lost Planet Airmen. But the Floyd/King Crimson/Stones the real deal is going to cost

 

Just because an LP is 180g doesn't mean it is good, a lot is just hype and often recorded from CD - beware.

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Stuart,

 

Totally agree with your last para. I bought a few reissues such as Diana Krall (When I look In Your Eyes) for about $45, thinking that the advertised 180gm would infer better quality mastering and pressing. I really got taken in by the advert. They sounded really muddy. It was a waster of money. Whereas I have LPs going back to the 1960s which sound fantastic. I have learned my lesson.

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On 01/01/2019 at 2:05 PM, swcng2001 said:

Stuart,

 

Totally agree with your last para. I bought a few reissues such as Diana Krall (When I look In Your Eyes) for about $45, thinking that the advertised 180gm would infer better quality mastering and pressing. I really got taken in by the advert. They sounded really muddy. It was a waster of money. Whereas I have LPs going back to the 1960s which sound fantastic. I have learned my lesson.

Exactly - the 60s' kicked everything off but most of the best music was laid down in the 70s'.The only problem with vinyl then was that the record companies treated young people as dummies and I well remember the long queues at HMV (now gone into liquidation) on a Saturday, taking back badly warped/bits of vinyl pressed into LPs etc.

 

The irony is that the first to ditch vinyl were the classical crowd and record companies always used virgin vinyl for  that genre and crap for everything else. I never bought anything by Creed Taylor - CTI that wasn't good. Like I said, you can still buy stuff from the 70s' at reasonable prices.

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On 28/11/2018 at 9:11 AM, Southerly said:

Just to substantiate what I said about the cost of vinyl - I think it was 99 I saw that there was a double tribute LP to Santana - Supernatural. Always having been a Santana fan from the beginning I had to have this. I can't remember now how much it cost, probably around £23 + postage - I looked it up on discogs and ebay. The vinyl is NM and I didn't bother putting it back in the plastic sleeve but the media would be rated Excellent - I like others had no idea how the price of a lot of vinyl was going to take off - try £300. A lot of the collectable 70s Rock/Jazz in VG+/NM is serious money and I do mean serious money.

 

However there is some serious good singer/songwriter and Jazz Funk that is going cheap. Don McClean - American Pie - the real Fleetwood (Pete Green) the Boston Concerts - just before he got lost on a single acid trip in San Francisco. Jazz Funk - Grover Washington - Live at the Bijou - anything on the CTI label. You like Country Freak try Pure Prairie league/Ozark Mountain Daredevils.The only real musician in the Monkees - Micky Nesmith all his stuff is good. The beginning of Punk - try Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters. Staright ahead Texas RnR try Colonel Codie and the Lost Planet Airmen. But the Floyd/King Crimson/Stones the real deal is going to cost

 

Just because an LP is 180g doesn't mean it is good, a lot is just hype and often recorded from CD - beware.

I’m really interested in your post especially the last sentence. When buying new vinyl, how can you know how it is recorded? Is there anyway to look to this up? Very disappointing to buy 180gm vinyl that sounds slihtly worse than the TIDAL streamed version!

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cigar nuke (interesting handle) - nearly always it comes down to the record company. A good idea is to use the wealth of info available on sites like discogs. Remember that from the early 80s' recordings were nearly all digital with the exceptions of specialist labels. There's a Singaporean singe Jacintha who did a tribute to Ben Webster which in terms of sonics is far and away the best LP I have - she's in the room and up close, totally organic - digital is a long way away - all vinyl should and could sound like this.

 

It seems crazy now to think that I rebuked against paying £20 + for high quality analogue recordings from the early 90s' but then who knew then that a vinyl resurgence would happen and that a big part of this revival was from chumps that would hike up prices not for the vinyl but for the art work which apparently they put up on their walls. Yes some of it is really great, there's a gatefold LP whose artwork I lost to water damage, I would like to get a really good graffiti artist to spray it on a wall, when I've bought a mint copy I'll tell you what it is.

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