Henk Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hi i have been trying to find out what Model and or Brand will accept DSD Via HDMI and not Covert it to PCM,as i have discovered is that it is not very well advertised or specified in Manuals or brochures , so is there another way of finding out? Does anyone have any recommendation in what i should look at. My Budget is about $1500 plus or minus i dont care about WIFI and fancy features as as it has the latest technology to play just about anything have HDMI and sound Good.Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 The Yamaha V1900 and V3900 certainly do what you ask. But I don't know why you would want it? Any processing at all in the AVR will necessitate conversion to PCM. So you will be limited to 'pure direct' mode only. In which case you might as well use the analog outputs of the SACD player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hi Newman as far as i know is that some avr's play dsd without the Conversion and it does sound different to one that Converts it.I would prefer to Connect it via HDMi as it sounds amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Any processing at all in the AVR will necessitate conversion to PCM This is the issue. Any bass management, delay, or processing requires it to be converted to digital. There are very few which can do any type of processing at all in DSD ... so using the analog outputs of the player would (could) be better in that case .... There are also a lot of misnomers around about if (and why) DSD sounds better... but poor DSD > PCM conversion can be pretty common AFAIUI. I'd really be looking for a device which can play DSD well (whether it converts it a lot) .... but more importantly one which has all the bass management and setup features you need to get the most out of the setup/room, which will be a lot more important (make more difference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 This will help... but it's a little out of date now. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1230824/list-of-av-receivers-pre-pros-with-pure-dsd-to-analog-processing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 This will help... but it's a little out of date now. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1230824/list-of-av-receivers-pre-pros-with-pure-dsd-to-analog-processing I'd forgotten about that. But gee, the AVR list is confusing and inconclusive! The second-to-last post is a pretty good summary IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 I'd forgotten about that. But gee, the AVR list is confusing and inconclusive! The second-to-last post is a pretty good summary IMHO. It is a little out of date for me , i was hoping for NAD or HarmanKardon but cant seem to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 This is the issue. Any bass management, delay, or processing requires it to be converted to digital. There are very few which can do any type of processing at all in DSD ... so using the analog outputs of the player would (could) be better in that case .... There are also a lot of misnomers around about if (and why) DSD sounds better... but poor DSD > PCM conversion can be pretty common AFAIUI. I'd really be looking for a device which can play DSD well (whether it converts it a lot) .... but more importantly one which has all the bass management and setup features you need to get the most out of the setup/room, which will be a lot more important (make more difference). How do i find that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 How do i find that? You also mentioned converting it to digital isnt it digital allready? also DSD to PCM the amp should be able to play it without Coversion to PCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHC Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Try this Pioneer (http://www.pioneer.com.sg/storefront4/ProductDetail/default.asp?ProductId=1340&CatId=64,9,100). Its may not be 100% what you are after, but it is a start. The LX57 is more in your budget range. EDIT: Sony is now embracing high-res/DSD in a big way (pretty ironic), so may be worth keeping an eye out for their next AVR range. Edited October 1, 2013 by LHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Try this Pioneer (http://www.pioneer.com.sg/storefront4/ProductDetail/default.asp?ProductId=1340&CatId=64,9,100). Its may not be 100% what you are after, but it is a start. DSD_Playback_via_USB_and_HDMI.jpg The LX57 is more in your budget range. EDIT: Sony is now embracing high-res/DSD in a big way (pretty ironic), so may be worth keeping an eye out for their next AVR range. Thank you i will look into this one.Have you ever heard the Pioneer range? I wonder how the audio side would sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 You also mentioned converting it to digital isnt it digital allready? also DSD to PCM the amp should be able to play it without Coversion to PCM. For the the receiver to process DSD (for bass management, delay, volume, etc, etc.) ... it will need to either have dedicated circuitry for DSD, or convert to PCM. You also mentioned converting it to digital isnt it digital allready? also DSD to PCM the amp should be able to play it without Coversion to PCM. Sorry, I meant convert to PCM. It is not always true to say "it should be able to play DSD without conversion" .... in fact it is quite uncommon. It would require a DAC chip which can play DSD natively, and then would also require disabling all the DSP features of the unit .... or employing some type of DSP which can handle DSD (ie. DSD -> PCM conversion). As you can see from post #10. Even most top of the range AVRs don't handle DSD directly ... or only in 2 channel, 1x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 For the the receiver to process DSD (for bass management, delay, volume, etc, etc.) ... it will need to either have dedicated circuitry for DSD, or convert to PCM. Sorry, I meant convert to PCM. It is not always true to say "it should be able to play DSD without conversion" .... in fact it is quite uncommon. It would require a DAC chip which can play DSD natively, and then would also require disabling all the DSP features of the unit .... or employing some type of DSP which can handle DSD (ie. DSD -> PCM conversion). As you can see from post #10. Even most top of the range AVRs don't handle DSD directly ... or only in 2 channel, 1x. What do you think would be the best way to listen to Multichannel sacd"s in the best quality possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 I like it ,,,i guess for me to do that i have to get the right Amp first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 What do you think would be the best way to listen to Multichannel sacd"s in the best quality possible? If you want bass management, delay, etc.... or any other type external DSP / active speaker ..... then you are going to pretty much have to accept DSD -> PCM, AFAIAA Otherwise you will need need a speaker setup with correct distances for SACD (you'll have no delay / audyssey, or anything). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 If you want bass management, delay, etc.... or any other type external DSP / active speaker ..... then you are going to pretty much have to accept DSD -> PCM, AFAIAA Otherwise you will need need a speaker setup with correct distances for SACD (you'll have no delay / audyssey, or anything). By accepting DSD to PCM is how do i Choose one that does a descent Conversion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 better off grabbing a sony sacd player with DSD dac on board. if want an avr that will accept DSD over hdmi. thats another question. all the denons do in my experience. the 4311 here is a pretty decent avr that will accept dsd over hdmi http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/56525-fs-4311-black/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 better off grabbing a sony sacd player with DSD dac on board. if want an avr that will accept DSD over hdmi. thats another question. all the denons do in my experience. the 4311 here is a pretty decent avr that will accept dsd over hdmi http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/56525-fs-4311-black/ Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 better off grabbing a sony sacd player with DSD dac on board. if want an avr that will accept DSD over hdmi. thats another question. all the denons do in my experience. the 4311 here is a pretty decent avr that will accept dsd over hdmi http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/56525-fs-4311-black/ Thank you I do have a Pioneer LX 55 for sacd's and it does DSD via HDMI would the sony be a better Choice or would the pioneer be good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 If you want to choose between two AVRs based on their sonic capability, I suspect that there must be other aspects of their audio performance that affect their comparative sonics more than the DSD-to-PCM conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHC Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I do have a Pioneer LX 55 for sacd's and it does DSD via HDMI would the sony be a better Choice or would the pioneer be good enough? A Pioneer AVR would allow you to use their PQLS link to stream DSD from your player, supposedly with minimal jitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 If you want to choose between two AVRs based on their sonic capability, I suspect that there must be other aspects of their audio performance that affect their comparative sonics more than the DSD-to-PCM conversion. I was hoping to choose at least between 2 or 3, thats why i am here to get some advice as i feel i am lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I tend to suggest Yamaha because I know they are good on audio. The Aventage series is meant to have special attention to audio (click on 'Construction' and 'Performance' boxes in the previous link), so in your price range I suggest the RX-A1010. It will accept DSD input in 2-ch or 5.1-ch over HDMI. I hope this is a useful suggestion, and good luck with your purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 I tend to suggest Yamaha because I know they are good on audio. The Aventage series is meant to have special attention to audio (click on 'Construction' and 'Performance' boxes in the previous link), so in your price range I suggest the RX-A1010. It will accept DSD input in 2-ch or 5.1-ch over HDMI. I hope this is a useful suggestion, and good luck with your purchase. Thank you Newman , really apreciate it Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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