ML1 near-field switch

[acg]

Hi guys,

 

I have read in another thread here about a "near-field switch" option on some ML1's.  I was wondering if anyone has this switch on their speakers, if they have used it, and just what it changes?

 

Mike, if you are there, perhaps you could chime in and let us know if it is still an option and try to give us a clue as to just what it does.  Is it available on the ML2's?

 

I listen near-field at the moment and am struggling to decide whether I should go to the effort to set up the office as a far-field environment in another room or maintain the status quo in my relatively small office albeit with some furniture shuffling.

 

Mike, your speakers are head of the pack for me right now, but I would like to give them their best chance to work when I do audition them, so I have attached a sketch of the two potential rooms in which I could set up my office (I do all my listening in my office).  From a business perspective it would be great to stay in my current office, but obviously if I were to go far-field I would need to move upstairs to the loft.  Are you able to suggest a layout to make best use of your speakers both near-field and far-field?  Keep in mind my two screens (that I could replace with a projector if need be) and my desk (that could be replaced by a smaller one).  I realise that your speakers work best on their stands, so would prefer if we could figure out an arrangement that includes them.

 

My current office setup...

 

An option desk placement in the office...

 

Another optional desk placement in the office...

 

Loft possibility 1...

 

Loft possibility 2...

 

 

Lastly, my current desk position and the impossibility of getting a rear ported speaker to work like this...

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony

Edited August 17, 2013 by acg

[DoggieHowser]

I have 2 sets of speakers on my PC table which is placed against one wall. The PC table was a kitchen table I got from Freedom because I needed a lot of desk space.

 

A small pair of Focal XS Book is used for regular surfing and videos. And a second pair of (what used to be) ML2 Reference. The ML2s were placed on the edge of the table so there's about 2-3 feet of space behind the speakers. When I listen to music, I move the chair further back so the 2 speakers and me form roughly an equilateral triangle. 

 

The ML2s don't need the near field switch. I like how they sound.. there's a very intimate feel

[Lenehan Audio]

Hi guys,

 

I have read in another thread here about a "near-field switch" option on some ML1's.  I was wondering if anyone has this switch on their speakers, if they have used it, and just what it changes?

 

Mike, if you are there, perhaps you could chime in and let us know if it is still an option and try to give us a clue as to just what it does.  Is it available on the ML2's?

 

I listen near-field at the moment and am struggling to decide whether I should go to the effort to set up the office as a far-field environment in another room or maintain the status quo in my relatively small office albeit with some furniture shuffling.

 

Mike, your speakers are head of the pack for me right now, but I would like to give them their best chance to work when I do audition them, so I have attached a sketch of the two potential rooms in which I could set up my office (I do all my listening in my office).  From a business perspective it would be great to stay in my current office, but obviously if I were to go far-field I would need to move upstairs to the loft.  Are you able to suggest a layout to make best use of your speakers both near-field and far-field?  Keep in mind my two screens (that I could replace with a projector if need be) and my desk (that could be replaced by a smaller one).  I realise that your speakers work best on their stands, so would prefer if we could figure out an arrangement that includes them.

 

My current office setup...

 

 

An option desk placement in the office...

 

 

Another optional desk placement in the office...

 

 

Loft possibility 1...

 

 

Loft possibility 2...

 

 

 

Lastly, my current desk position and the impossibility of getting a rear ported speaker to work like this...

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony

Hi Anthony

                   the nearfield switch basically adjusts the Xover for nearfield listening ( closer than 1.5mtrs ) the PRC Xover which all my speakers use includes adjustment for first reflection points   ie.  floor and sidewalls . When you listen inside the point of first reflection the standard PRC Xover will not sound linear so a separate nearfield tuning is done which can be swithed in or out . 

 

The best room of course is the Loft option 2 . In fact these are the exact dimensions of the room the ML1 was originally designed in ( 6mtrs x 4.3mtrs x 2.9mtrs )  This is an ideal room for either the ML1 or ML2.  The smaller room is definately ML1 territory.  For mounting very close to rear walls I use a series of damping foams for the ports to EQ out the front wall proximity boost . This boost manifests in the upper bass between 60-100hz and can be objectionable. Selecting the correct density of foam plug is critical in respect of cancelling this unwanted boom.               Regards Mike Lenehan

[Lenehan Audio]

I have 2 sets of speakers on my PC table which is placed against one wall. The PC table was a kitchen table I got from Freedom because I needed a lot of desk space.

 

A small pair of Focal XS Book is used for regular surfing and videos. And a second pair of (what used to be) ML2 Reference. The ML2s were placed on the edge of the table so there's about 2-3 feet of space behind the speakers. When I listen to music, I move the chair further back so the 2 speakers and me form roughly an equilateral triangle. 

 

The ML2s don't need the near field switch. I like how they sound.. there's a very intimate feel

Hey Doggie      I'm working on your speakers now !!   they will be running early in the week, ring me Tuesday        Mike

[Lenehan Audio]

Hi Anthony

                   the nearfield switch basically adjusts the Xover for nearfield listening ( closer than 1.5mtrs ) the PRC Xover which all my speakers use includes adjustment for first reflection points   ie.  floor and sidewalls . When you listen inside the point of first reflection the standard PRC Xover will not sound linear so a separate nearfield tuning is done which can be swithed in or out . 

 

The best room of course is the Loft option 2 . In fact these are the exact dimensions of the room the ML1 was originally designed in ( 6mtrs x 4.3mtrs x 2.9mtrs )  This is an ideal room for either the ML1 or ML2.  The smaller room is definately ML1 territory.  For mounting very close to rear walls I use a series of damping foams for the ports to EQ out the front wall proximity boost . This boost manifests in the upper bass between 60-100hz and can be objectionable. Selecting the correct density of foam plug is critical in respect of cancelling this unwanted boom.               Regards Mike Lenehan

One  question       how big is your office ??          Mike

[Lenehan Audio]

I have 2 sets of speakers on my PC table which is placed against one wall. The PC table was a kitchen table I got from Freedom because I needed a lot of desk space.

 

A small pair of Focal XS Book is used for regular surfing and videos. And a second pair of (what used to be) ML2 Reference. The ML2s were placed on the edge of the table so there's about 2-3 feet of space behind the speakers. When I listen to music, I move the chair further back so the 2 speakers and me form roughly an equilateral triangle. 

 

The ML2s don't need the near field switch. I like how they sound.. there's a very intimate feel

I need to get out more !   that question was for you Doggie        How big is YOUR  office ?  and how well did the ML2's run in there     Mike

[DoggieHowser]

Hey Doggie      I'm working on your speakers now !!   they will be running early in the week, ring me Tuesday        Mike

 

 

Can't wait would love to hear Bill's version with the external crossover vs this.

[bhobba]

The ML2s don't need the near field switch. I like how they sound.. there's a very intimate feel

 

I have heard them and they do indeed sound AWESOME in that setup.  I preferred them to the Thiel's Doggie has in his main rig.  Theil's don't often get a mention around here but are also awesome speakers - they nail everything with one exception - a bit thin and dry - but it is tamed to some extent with valve gear.

 

When my ML1 Limited are done really want to see how they go against the two's in Doggies set-up.

 

And Anthony - haven't forgotten mate - they will be taken up to your place to see how they go in your rig.

 

Thanks

Bill

Edited August 18, 2013 by bhobba

[bhobba]

Can't wait would love to hear Bill's version with the external crossover vs this.

 

Evil, pure evil.            

 

I have been heating Mikes ears to let me know when its finished because I really want to hear it as well.

 

Evidently like me Doggie went the whole hog and got Bybees at the driver terminals and an internal version of the star wiring.  So basically its the same as mine with internal crossovers.

 

Mike has also been mucking around with the S-250 while I burn in the Naksa 80 in my system.  He now thinks the S-250 is easily better than the Mac 501's (I resisted saying MURDERED) and will take my NAKSA down to see how it fares on both mine and Doggies speakers.

 

Thanks

Bill 

Edited August 18, 2013 by bhobba

[acg]

Bill and Doggie, you HAVE to let me know when you plan of bringing your two speakers together.  I was talking with Mike the other day and he mentioned these plans were afoot so please count me in if you can, I feel like a short drive.

 

Anthony

[bhobba]

Bill and Doggie, you HAVE to let me know when you plan of bringing your two speakers together.  I was talking with Mike the other day and he mentioned these plans were afoot so please count me in if you can, I feel like a short drive.

 

My speakers are still at Mikes being burnt in prior to going down to Canberra.

 

Its purely a matter of when Doggies are finished which Mike said would be about Tuesday and they can be heard together.

 

I plan to give Mike a ring Tuesday and if its finished will take a trip down with my NAKSA.

 

So simply give Mike a ring Tuesday and hopefully you can join me and Doggie for a bit of fun.

 

Good chance to hear the S-250 compared to the NAKSA as well.

 

Thanks

Bill 

[acg]

Mike, thanks for your responses so far:  I know you are busy since you got back.  Thanks for the insight regarding the crossover switch and the foam for the rear ports.

 

Can you please tell me what is a safe distance to keep the ML1's and ML2's from (A)  a back wall and (B ) a side wall?  Also, do you know of any other design elements unique to near-field monitors?  I am googling all kinds of stuff but can't really find anything that seems to distinguish near-field from far-field (apart from crossover which you have covered already).

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony 

Edited August 18, 2013 by acg

[acg]

My speakers are still at Mikes being burnt in prior to going down to Canberra.

 

Its purely a matter of when Doggies are finished which Mike said would be about Tuesday and they can be heard together.

 

I plan to give Mike a ring Tuesday and if its finished will take a trip down with my NAKSA.

 

So simply give Mike a ring Tuesday and hopefully you can join me and Doggie for a bit of fun.

 

Good chance to hear the S-250 compared to the NAKSA as well.

 

Thanks

Bill 

 

Will do Bill.  Thanks for that.

[hochopeper]

Hi Anthony

                   the nearfield switch basically adjusts the Xover for nearfield listening ( closer than 1.5mtrs ) the PRC Xover which all my speakers use includes adjustment for first reflection points   ie.  floor and sidewalls . When you listen inside the point of first reflection the standard PRC Xover will not sound linear so a separate nearfield tuning is done which can be swithed in or out . 

      Regards Mike Lenehan

 

Mike,

 

If these are being used while Anthony is sitting at the desk working, he'll have a ~1m wide flat surface (desktop) in front of the speaker ... which even though he's close to the speaker, would still cause audible issues in mid-bass I'm guessing since the dispersion will omni-directional at those freq. Any thoughts on how Anthony could address that issue? Doggie drags his speakers to front edge of the desk and sits back which solves the problem but might not be the most productive place for Anthony to sit if he's working!

 

 

Chris

[DoggieHowser]

I need to get out more !   that question was for you Doggie        How big is YOUR  office ?  and how well did the ML2's run in there     Mike

I think it is about 4x3m? The ML2s were about 6 feet apart.

 

I thought it sounded great. The proximity to the speakers also meant that tiny nuances are much more noticeable vs say my Thiels which are about 8+ feet away.

[Lenehan Audio]

Mike, thanks for your responses so far:  I know you are busy since you got back.  Thanks for the insight regarding the crossover switch and the foam for the rear ports.

 

Can you please tell me what is a safe distance to keep the ML1's and ML2's from (A)  a back wall and (B ) a side wall?  Also, do you know of any other design elements unique to near-field monitors?  I am googling all kinds of stuff but can't really find anything that seems to distinguish near-field from far-field (apart from crossover which you have covered already).

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony 

Hi Anthony    I've heard ML1's as close as 200mm with the port tuning foams and although the soundstage depth is foreshortened they work well . If your that close to sidewalls you can use a sheet of 50mm Dunlop foam pinned to each wall .             Mike

[acg]

Thanks Mike.  If I want to forego the foam in the bass ports, how far should I keep ML1's from the rear wall?

 

Anthony

[PKay]

On 18/08/2013 at 2:10 PM, Lenehan Audio said:

Hi Anthony

                   the nearfield switch basically adjusts the Xover for nearfield listening ( closer than 1.5mtrs ) the PRC Xover which all my speakers use includes adjustment for first reflection points   ie.  floor and sidewalls . When you listen inside the point of first reflection the standard PRC Xover will not sound linear so a separate nearfield tuning is done which can be swithed in or out . 

 

The best room of course is the Loft option 2 . In fact these are the exact dimensions of the room the ML1 was originally designed in ( 6mtrs x 4.3mtrs x 2.9mtrs )  This is an ideal room for either the ML1 or ML2.  The smaller room is definately ML1 territory.  For mounting very close to rear walls I use a series of damping foams for the ports to EQ out the front wall proximity boost . This boost manifests in the upper bass between 60-100hz and can be objectionable. Selecting the correct density of foam plug is critical in respect of cancelling this unwanted boom.               Regards Mike Lenehan

Hi Mike,

where can I get some of this foam? My configuration has changed and my speakers are now much closer to the rear wall. 

[Lenehan Audio]

On 30 September 2016 at 8:21 AM, Nap250 said:

Hi Mike,

where can I get some of this foam? My configuration has changed and my speakers are now much closer to the rear wall. 

Hi NAP.      Use the lightest softest foam you can find first up ! As long as it will stay in the port . It just depends on whether the ML1's are actually booming from proximity loading .

You can also try some wool insulation batt, the idea is to attenuate the proximity gain from having the port close to the wall . This usually happens at around 80 to 120 hz. 

The scraps you usually find outside foam shops are the go ! Usually the yellow coloured foam . If you go too heavy with the foam it just converts the ML1 into a sealed box which you don't want .    Regards Mike Lenehan

[PKay]

Would car washing sponge do the trick?  I have insulation wool which I will try tomorrow.

@Lenehan Audio

Edited October 1, 2016 by Nap250

[Lenehan Audio]

8 minutes ago, Nap250 said:

Would car washing sponge do the trick?  I have insulation wool which I will try tomorrow.

@Lenehan Audio

Would be ideal I think ! Maybe be better than the wool 

[PKay]

On 10/1/2016 at 7:55 PM, Lenehan Audio said:

Would be ideal I think ! Maybe be better than the wool 

Hi Mike the washing sponge was too dense and killed most of the bass. The yellow insulation wool is doing a very good job, I will play around with the amount of insulation to get the best balance.

 

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. I will bring my stands down from time to time (ie, when the wife is away) to really get the best out of these superb little speakers. I allowed some extra length in the cable just in case.