Toma Audio Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Agreed, the thor PS10 is a good unit. However i found the power board constricted the sound a bit. Changed to an isotek sirius for stereo gear and polaris for surround sound. This opened up the sound stage, a worthwhile upgrade. Thats what we found as well, I would love to support an Aussie company. For basic protection it is really a good bit of gear, but is kills the dynamics of music. The Isotek is far more an open window. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willco Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I own a unit of Purepower 2000 (older model circa 5 years old), latest Power plant P5, tested Accuphase PS 520. I much prefer the Purepower for my front end. All my front end is plugged into this unit. Bought a P5 on a whim last year. It is still in my system as power supply to the TT motor. Problem with Purepower is availability. If anyone can tell me where there is ready stock, I will be most grateful. Regards, Joe Ling Agree the PurePower eats the PS Audio--plus concur with Loki 65 on the "constricted" aspect-- I have friends that sold their PS's after finding the loss of Dynamics with it in the system I also run the big PurePower--its the answer for Aust conditions -up here in Nth Qld the wall can run to 257V out and power outages in the rainy season the Battery backup is superb--I set a constant 230V out and system flows without hum/snap crackle pop/etc. Highly recommended 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzr Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Agree the PurePower eats the PS Audio--plus concur with Loki 65 on the "constricted" aspect-- I have friends that sold their PS's after finding the loss of Dynamics with it in the system I also run the big PurePower--its the answer for Aust conditions -up here in Nth Qld the wall can run to 257V out and power outages in the rainy season the Battery backup is superb--I set a constant 230V out and system flows without hum/snap crackle pop/etc. Highly recommended This is exactly my findings also with my Pure Power 3000+. Wilco, the added bonus of longer tube life must be a win too! Edited July 24, 2014 by groot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Just responding to the original post. I have an APC surt1000xli which is a 700 Watts / 1000 VA online double conversion sine wave UPS. The online double conversion part means that it continually converts to DC then generates AC from that. It is also capable of setting the output to 220v, 230v, or 240v. Cost is about $1200 + I suspect this device is quite similar to power regeneration devices marketed to consumer home theatre and audiophile customers, except that it is more of a generic UPS for computers and stuff and is noisier than is really suitable for in the home (has a constantly running fan), unless you can keep it away from the listening area. As it is constantly converting to DC and back to AC, it wastes power all the time doing this conversion. From the specs of this thing, I thought it would be a good power conditioner for my nad c 390dd (a digital amplifier that is sensitive to power supply due to its design) and it would allow me to lower the high voltage that I have on my home power (~250v) to provide 230v to the nad c 390dd. The results: When I first got the nad c 390dd, I only ran it connected to the UPS and I was wondering why it sounded kind of harsh and grating and pretty much not nice to listen to for more than 30 minutes. All the reviews I had read indicated that this amplifier was a pleasure to listen to for hours and was not harsh at all. I put up with it for a few days, then I tried running it direct from the mains power. From the mains power it lost the harshness and was good to listen to. That's what you get, when you use a device designed for computers, rather than for audio use. Computer UPS devices are the WORST choice for audio systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellrotts Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That's what you get, when you use a device designed for computers, rather than for audio use. Computer UPS devices are the WORST choice for audio systems. would be interesting to see its output on a scope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispy Audio Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Here's an interesting video showing the benefits of a conditioner not just for power coming into the home, but to filter out noise from appliances within the home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest myrantz Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Here's an interesting video showing the benefits of a conditioner not just for power coming into the home, but to filter out noise from appliances within the home. I guess the point of the naysayer is it doesn't matter how the input power is like... If the equipment is "good", the output SQ is immune to the input... That's the same logic of applying for 40 jobs a month means you're a hard worker. I'm sold on power conditioner/filters... I do know it does restrict the sound somewhat in my setup, but OTOH I don't hear "click" noises in my stereo that is caused by the fridge... (I did unplug the fridge once to confirm it, and forgot to switch the fridge back on.. The next day the wife was extremely unhappy and she threw everything in the fridge away.. That's her way of teaching me a lesson). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispy Audio Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I hear what you're saying M, but if I can notice the difference on a $21k, 35-bit dac which has no less than 4 independent toroidal power supply units, then I will happily debate the topic! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest myrantz Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I hear what you're saying M, but if I can notice the difference on a $21k, 35-bit dac which has no less than 4 independent toroidal power supply units, then I will happily debate the topic! OTOH, the naysayer's argument (or rather logic) would be - if that's the case, then the equipment is faulty, or not good.. .. At the end of the day, I doubt you can win the debate.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I hear what you're saying M, but if I can notice the difference on a $21k, 35-bit dac which has no less than 4 independent toroidal power supply units, then I will happily debate the topic! Toroidal transformers are the WORST possible choice for low level devices. Swap them out for 'R' core transformers and you may well be able to dump your external suppression devices. The choice of toroidal transformers (for low level devices) is an example of the faulty design that I keep banging on a about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispy Audio Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Hundreds of high end audio manufacturers are clearly getting it wrong then Zaph - you'd better get on the blower and let them all know their dire mistakes, and right their wrongs Edited August 1, 2014 by Krispy Audio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Hundreds of high end audio manufacturers are clearly getting it wrong then Zaph - you'd better get on the blower and let them all know their dire mistakes, and right their wrongs Just because "hundreds of high end audio manufacturers" use toroidal transformers in low level audio applications, that does not make them appropriate for the application. They are just blindly following everyone else. I prefer to call them lazy. It is a trivial exercise to prove the technical advantages of 'R' core transformers over toroidal types. Just as you may claim that "hundreds of high end audio manufacturers" use toroidals in low level audio applications, I can show that quite a few use 'R' core types. When designers like John Curl and Peter Stein sing the praises of R core transformers, all those other guys should sit up and take notice. As should you. Guys like John Curl and Peter Stein have forgotten more about audio design than those "hundreds of high end audio manufacturers" will ever know. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) I'd like to see the fluke analyse on the supply rail of the psu of any audio equipment when the shredder is turned on.Like he said, the shredder is an extreme case of electrical noise injection. How many here listened to music with a shredder on? Edited August 1, 2014 by pchan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 How many here listened to music with a shredder on? I have. My electronics are all in another room .... so it's easy to do. (Servers, printers, shredder, lamps, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I have. My electronics are all in another room .... so it's easy to do. (Servers, printers, shredder, lamps, etc.) No wonder some have higher power bills, I have a hand shredder, Left and right hands normally does the trick... If I need something secured I take it to work that gets shredded and put in a secure bin. Thats why I stay employed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Heh.... well it's no industrial sized shredder.... a tiny little waste paper one (about the size of the one in the video) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Screamer Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Toroidal transformers are the WORST possible choice for low level devices. What is a low level device? can you please give an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Screamer Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I own a unit of Purepower 2000 (older model circa 5 years old), latest Power plant P5, tested Accuphase PS 520. I much prefer the Purepower for my front end. All my front end is plugged into this unit. Bought a P5 on a whim last year. It is still in my system as power supply to the TT motor. Problem with Purepower is availability. If anyone can tell me where there is ready stock, I will be most grateful. Regards, Joe Ling I read through some forum posts on the purepower 2000+ and heaven help you if you have a problem with it... Those that get one that works straight up and works well , they are as happy as a pig in mud, those that drew a lemon and had to get some service work done, boy oh boy let the games begin. The purepower was a serious contender (if I bought any brand) until I read about the poor customer service from the Canadian company and wait times for a partial responses. If they were made here in Australia and didn't have to be sent half way around the world to someone who may not respond, that would make them the strong choice over the PS Audio devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 What is a low level device? can you please give an example. MC head amp. Phono preamp. DAC Analogue preamp. Etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valvedude Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Sorry to throw rock in the pond here but didn't a sparky somewhere else on the forum state that a dedicated power line will do zilch in a house as it will pick up the same interference (if any) from the mains board? I will be watching this thread as I am wondering the same thing regarding power conditioners, leads etc. So far I am unconvinced. i think all power conditioners are a load of BF as a tech for 30 years if you have a good M-E-N connection at your fuse box and your main house earth has been up graded. all the electronic noise and rubbish will take the quickest path to ground. any one who understand electronics and or the theory on electricity would know this. i have seen it all Edited August 1, 2014 by valvedude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooferocau Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Toroidal transformers are the WORST possible choice for low level devices. Swap them out for 'R' core transformers and you may well be able to dump your external suppression devices. The choice of toroidal transformers (for low level devices) is an example of the faulty design that I keep banging on a about. I have used and still own a lot of early Sony ES components...2 of my favourites are the CDP XA7ES and the SCD XA777ES ...., these all use R-Core transformers... http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDP-XA7ES.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I have used and still own a lot of early Sony ES components...2 of my favourites are the CDP XA7ES and the SCD XA777ES ...., these all use R-Core transformers... http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDP-XA7ES.html They do indeed. I have a 777ES that I am re-building. The transformers are excellent and go to show how much care and intelligence Sony applied to their high end products. Sadly, not all 'high end' manufacturers are as smart as the Sony engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toma Audio Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't know if it is still around on line or not, but years ago when we sold Moon gear there was a white paper on how the company designed and built their transformers, it was in pretty basic terms but was a great insight to the art. For the record IMO ZB is 100% correct on this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispy Audio Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Moon use toroidal transformers in their highest level dac. http://www.simaudio.com/DATA/PRODUIT/14_en_detail~v~digital-to-analog-converter.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasadena Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Hi, I currently own a Belkin PF60 and looking at possibly replacing with a power regulator/regenerator. Line volatge is around 250 on average and ranges from 246 to 253 but stays up more towards the higher end. I'm looking for a product that is transparent and will regulate power to 230 or 240v. Can you manually set to regulate these device at a particular voltage? What products should I be considering and price range, lowest to the more expensive? I had a chat about the Thor PS10 at Simply Hi-Fi in WA and based on their observations/testing and customer feedback, the PS10 somewhat limited/boxed in the sound stage. Thought this was interesting. I've been reluctant in buying a Thor PS10 because of this. My Uncle has a PS10 amd reading from members here that many are happy with their PS10. Anny comments for/against welcome. There's also Thor's PS20 and other products I've been looking at is PS Audio and Furman. Are there any guidelines as to what shouldn't be plugged into power regulator/regenerator/conditioner? Things I'll be looking at plugging into the power console is the TV, couple of media players, Oppo BDP, PS3, Denon AVR, Wii, Apple TV. I have specific equipment for 2CH and undecided as to whether or not I should connect these direct to the wall (currently) or run them through a power regenerator? I have four monoblocks, pre-amp, CD player and an external active crossover unit. Once question I do have in particular to ask; Will plugging amps into a power conditioner affect the running of the amp? Reading here and other threads that power conditioners can limit voltage going out so if you have high powered devices plugged in and they peak in dynamic power, will the affect/damage the aplifier in any way? I had 2 x 20A circuits installed for the HT. Once 20A circuit allows you to install 10 power outlets. I had one circuit directed to 2 x Double GPO's at the ends on both sides of the wall where all the equipment sat. These are used to for all my amps. The other circuit sits in the middle directly in the centre, where the rest is plugged into. I have the Belkin PF60 plugged in here. I have 3-phase sub board and I had the sparky install a 970PM module onto each phase for surge protection, which covers the whole house. A Small investment, which I think everyone should consider. It seems there's arguement for and against as to having one in the first place but as I pointed out, I'm interested in having the voltage regulated to a set voltage level as the higher the voltage, the shorter the life of the product connected to it will be. Thanks Edited September 13, 2014 by pasadena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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