Jvc Long Weekend With Some Comparisons Back To The Epson 9000W

[betty boop 14,729]

Well luck would have it with much thanks to matt at TCC I ended up with a JVC x35 to check out over the last queens birthday long weekend.

As some would know to really appreciate something am a strong believer in checking out for myself and where possible demoing at home to experience in my own system to come to my own conclusions.

Thought I'd post here as my impressions and experience with it might be of interest to some and also some comparisons I can make to my own epson 9000w 

the x35 is pretty much out of box and with 4 hours on the clock. when I picked up from the store the quick spin they gave it for me had good contrast, sharpness and brightness but the colour balance and skin tones to my eyes looked a bit over ripe ! not that bothered me too much as was sure at home could give it a bit of a tweak. Plus also keen to check out what might be like in my own setup with your typical lounge room with white walls and ceilings light carpet and furniture/furnishings vs say the blacked out surrounds of the TCC demo room



screen size is a 92" 16:9 so not massive but and am viewing from 2.8m which is bang on thx recommendation for immersion and is well within the distance for visual acuity to resolve 1080p so should do justice in appreciating the detail and immersion with a projector.

so without further ado lets get on with it... JVC in da house 



ofcourse wife noticed it straight away it is a big projector and BLACK unlike the lounge room friendly white epson. But yeah I reassured her it was just a loaner and just for the long weekend 

I use the peerless mount PRG-EXA wall mount and to mount the jvc you need to remove its feet meaning long screws m5x25mm are required to secure to the mount bracket. this is unlike with the epson where dont have to take off its feet and can use the surface mount screws the peerless comes  with. but anyways a quick trip to buntings soon had that sorted. It is a narrower but deeper projector than the epson meaning I had to use full extension on the prg-exa to make sure it had clearance on the back. But yeah was soon easily mounted squared / leveled up with the peerless no probs. Hook up was pretty simple just the same as with the epson.

I downloaded the jvc manual for a quick peak to familiarise myself, but the remote and everything appeared pretty intuitive so off I went with switch on.

Easy enough in use, the menus on the jvc and remote pretty straight forward. In alignment with vertical/horizontal shift and zooming these beign motorised is pretty handy on the jvc vs the manual controls on the epson. the focus for instance can pretty much stand at the screen and get just right in adjusting vs with the manual control on the epson have to stand at the projector and try and do it manually. The controls for focus zoom and image shift are quite fine in resolution so easy to use, however strangely I did notice just in one direction ie in upwards vertical shift the jvc is a little coarse in movement ie jumps/steps upwards but coming downwards is quite smooth. odd just meant took a few goes to get just right 

OK on to watching something onscreen !

[betty boop 14,729]

ok first I loaded source code on blu-ray. Reason being watched a clip of that instore on the jvc and was keen to see how looked at home....yep defintely still over ripe on the colours  and plenty of brightness sharpness good contrast etc.

I decided to load up super 8 on blu-ray, as a movie am more familiar with and can check skin tones and the like and plus has plenty of primary colours in a lot of shots which might give me a bit of a feel how its like on colour balance. The darker scenes on super 8 gave a good feel for contrast which is definitely very good but on the colours in the day time scenes with primary and skin tones etc definitely too rich. Decided to take a peak at settings projector might be on. which turned out to be "cinema" for picture mode. Swapped around the other modes...natural is definitely not Natural  and yeah didnt really like any of the other modes apart from film which appeared a lot more like it. Doing a bit of a google that appeared to be what most people use on the jvc. So swapped to that. Now this was a lot lot better. However still not totally happy...keeping in mind I am a nutter for colour balance being most important to me, communicating with bbar with his help realised there are some other settings where colour space which was on "auto" I moved that to "standard" and also on his suggestion changed gamma to 2.2 which would suit my room and setting. Noticed that colour temp was on 6000 so changed that to he more standard 6500.

Ah now this is more like it !







nice natural skin tones, and yet plenty of punch in the colours 

ps I picked the above scenes for a reason....there is a blind test coming up for you...can you pick a jvc from an epson 

Edited June 13, 2013 by :) al

[betty boop 14,729]

ok one thing I noticed with the jvc on super 8 was that though there is a fair bit of sharpness to the picture but also a fair bit of noise in the blue sky of the scene above for instance or in the darker sections of the other scenes. it might just be apparent in my screen shots but keep in mind they are heavily reduced to upload here so magnitude of it is perhaps not apparent. I am definitely not a sharpness freak though and looking at the jvc settings I noticed both a Sharpness and a NR or noise reduction settings and both were about half way cranked up. I turned these both right down and for my taste much better for it 

Next up I thought probably time to set lumens / light output from the projector so pulled out the light meter. I noticed the iris on the jvc was wide open so pulled that back to -8 so had 14-16 fc across the screen. This is a touch more uniform across the screen than the epson which has bit more light in the middle of the screen and more drop off to the corners. The fact the jvc has an adjustable manual iris is a bonus over the step settings on the epson which control is a bit more staggered with the various output settings.

Next up I checked out "The american" on blu-ray. two reasons .I wanted to check out how the projector goes in the white bright snow scenes at the start of the movie and secondly the lovely natural skin tones I remember with the epson in say the outdoor daylight scene by the river where they are testing the rifle and have a picnic. One interesting thing I noticed here where the epson on extreme brightness white scenes will pick up very occasionally the weave of the screen material and form a moire, ever so slightly which might very ocassionally notice. this is totally absent with the jvc. which is great to see really. I dare say this is due to the different pixel pattern/density of the jvc vs the epson. Also pleased with the brightness of the snow scenes. Very pleased with the skin tones details etc on the other scenes of the american. keeping in back of mind the movie is ever so slightly muted in pallete. but still very good regardless 

thinking maybe time to head back to source code. lets look again at colour balance, skin tones, detail, sharpness etc 

Definitely an improvement overall from how had it previously, some screen shots below,





and close up !



this movie is a bit of a challenge though I think overall, but still does leave me wondering if have colour balance right and whether the jvc is perhaps a touch noisier than the epson ?

[betty boop 14,729]

anyways enough playing around and time for a full movie I thought, decided to watch the french movie Rust and Bone. A film with a very natural look to it,







plenty of bright daylight, night and outdoor scenes skin tones etc and the jvc from what could see presented it in a matter of fact way as I would hope it would. One thing watching an extended movie brought to attention though was the fan noise of the JVC there is a definite whining nature to it. one you notice watching a movie. the epson is I am d@mn sure quieter in its lowest setting and is definitely whisper quieter with more of a whoosh sort of sound to its fan which you tune out of pretty quickly. perhaps the jvcs fan you get used to as well dont know. but definitely more noticeable and louder 

[betty boop 14,729]

ok so how does the jvc x35 stack up for 3D ? this is important to me and something the epson does pretty well.

I decided to load up WW2 in 3D reason being it has some good 3D stills but also some natural shot 3D filmed in both studio and outdoors that looks stunning with the current day material. Its like your there.

For the JVC to prepare for 3D you need to make sure you have to plugged in the 3D emitter in the back of the projector, on the epson this is something built in as standard. Also the glasses take some synching and the switch on button sequence and flashing lights etc is all a bit weird. lot simpler on the epson and panasonic glasses I use with the epson. There is also a bit of mucking about while the jvc synches which to be honest even with 2D the jvc seems to take a tad longer in going about this than the epson does. and there was one instance where caught itself out in the hdmi hand shake not something have seen with the epson.

Regardless to 3D eventually in firing up the movie quite visible is the ghosting on the movie studios gold 3D writing. this is pretty apparent and hard to miss. there is also some noticieable ghosting on say a ghost line that follows building lines and such or a lamp in a room. its there if you look for it. For someone unaware maybe its something they wont notice. and yeah its something can push back of mind and concentrate on the movie program instead. something that could be a bit of a bother for some though I suspect.

I next watched life of pi in 3D. the opening scenes was what I was interested in. loading up life of pi while the screen is black you can actually notice the glasses pulsing one side to the next. wow never noticed that on the epson. perhaps its the slower panels of the jvc but its something you really notice on the jvc. the opening scene is a touch darker on the jvc than I remember and also the bird fluttering for instance protrayed very well is a touch lagged in its motion. but look overall watching a few more scenes on the jvc, I would say for 3D this one goes to epson pretty easily. thats not to say the epson for 3D doesnt have faults either. just that jvc still has some catching up here to do. All that said it shouldnt be taken as all negativity its not an all out loss. the jvc is still very good with 3D and as long as take the few compromises and they are just a few then most people I would say be pretty happy with its 3D. absolute 3D nuts would probably justgo buy a DLP as well to do 3D the best we can right now  ! 

[betty boop 14,729]

ok time to go back to 2D and another movie on the JVC, I decided to watch Django unchained. a couple of screen shots below,





enjoyable movie, but I dont think that really helped my doubts hehe, plenty of detail and good rich colours. but overall a bit too rich on the colours ? eg in the skin tones of the shots above or in django's jacket.  something I think only some comparisons with the epson will help 

one other thing I have noticed in 2D movies is the jvc seems a bit different in pans definitely a bit slower/juddery vs the epson. something else to compare when fire up the epson again...

[betty boop 14,729]

ok lets kick off with convergence...which one is which can you pick the epson from the jvc ?. to make it easy I'll place identity in a spoiler if help is needed 

A1

A1 JVC - the white bar above has a green edge on the right edge, blue edge on the left and a red edge above, same with the triangle red edge up the top, blue edge on bottom left of triangle and green edge on bottom right. This is also visible on the text "Open"

B1

B1 Epson - green edge on the left of the bar, purple on the right, green edge on bottom left of the triangle, purple edge on the bottom right of the triangle

[betty boop 14,729]

Convergence part 2

A2

A2 - Epson green bar to left purple to the right

B2

B2 JVC pink bar on top and purple to left and bottom

Edited June 13, 2013 by :) al

[betty boop 14,729]

To check Convergence with shots above is hard to photo graph - with a couple of the shots I fudged the focus by the looks ! , lens pretty much to the screen hand held, with either example to my eyes close up the epson is more obvious but both pjvc and epson have misconvergence and its visible close up. sitting back at viewing position though neither are apparent so to me not something to bother with and its a much of a muchness for either. But for others this might be something to consider. Note both epson and jvc have adjustments for this but it doesnt really fixes it just fudges the pixels so not something I would bother with either example. Its what you get 

[betty boop 14,729]

ok back to comparisons. now for some real material rather than looking at pixels and such 

as mentioned I have some pics I took when first got the epson, ie was 2 days old not many hours on the clock with out of box settings ie eco and thx. Again I'll leave these in blind format. See if you can pick the jvc from the epson 

C1

C1

JVC

C2

C2

Epson

[betty boop 14,729]

and then these from the other day from django again I'll leave these blind. so you can pick 

D1

D1

Epson

D2

D2

JVC

[betty boop 14,729]

and one last one 

E1

E1

JVC

E2

E2

Epson

[betty boop 14,729]

ok lets wrap this up. so overall what are my impressions of the jvc x35...

build fit finish etc : its a solid well made projector, big heavy so make sure have a suitable mount
menu/remote in use : quite like how it is in use
installation : straight forward to install, like its powered shift, focus and zoom. though yeah a bit weird how it is jerky on the upward vertical shift.
colour balance : not totally sure, definitely not great out of box. some simple tweaks gets pretty close though come 100 hours probably worth investing in a calibration I suspect. though does colours well, enough pop and am quite sure will come up a treat with grey scale and colour balance set right
Brightness : sufficient for my needs might be touch less for those wanting to run big screens. the manual iris to set brightness is a good bonus
Uniformity of brightness : more uniform than the epson, especially in my case where using a bit of vertical shift
Moire effect : on screen material/weave am surprised that with the pixel structure of the jvc this is not visible vs on the epson on rare high brightness white scenes
Contrast : excellent, noticable step up from the epson for me. and can imagine in dedicated rooms this is even more clear
sharpness : very good its a step up from the epson here, and I dont think you want to be cranking the sharpness and noise reduction for side effects
uniformity of sharpness : quite uniform over screen, vs epson that a touch softer as go down the screen
Convergence : not perfect, perhaps better examples and this is hit and miss, but much of a much ness vs the epson I would say and not something noticeable from viewing position
Picture Noise : not great out of box, and after cranking back sharpness and NR, I do still think a touch noisier in look to the epson but this could be due to greater sharpness of the jvc accentuating this
Fan noise : appears louder than the epson with its whine though will accept this could be down to unit in question as dont remember bbars jvc to be whiney
3D : apparent ghosting - will take this could be a firmware issue. otherwise its something have to live with, synch of glasses noticeably slower than the epson, a bit darker than the epson but adequate for my needs might be an issue for larger screens. RF 3D is a bonus over IR on the epson
HDMI : seems a bit slow to synch vs epson, might catch some avrs out in the hand shake.
Motion : a touch slower on the panning etc vs epson
Trigger : ps I forgot to mention this in the review but the jvc is instant on triggering my motorised screen on switch on and switch off, vs epson that has a time lag while powering up / down

some other factors in consideration
Warranty : 2 years on x35 vs 3.5years on epson
Price : the x35 is great value without 3D emitter and glasses, with those your looking a step up from epson and sony

so overall its been an interesting exercise for me. a change is as good as a holiday and am keen to give the jvc x35 a go, theres enough good points about it to appreciate.(have underlined these above to highlight) The two main sticking points of it colour balance I think can sort and 3D I think can live with. Otherwise I think its something can be quite happy with. Hence my order placed for a white x35 and 4x 3D glasses hopefully get that in the next couple of weeks or so 

the epson have been very pleased with I think its shown itself proud in these comparisons, am selling it with plenty of warranty and with not too many hours so hopefully finds itself a new home where can be appreciated as I have.

ps I know some have mentioned the sony. I did go check it out. its a fine projector. I think out of box its a lot more natural in colour balance. it appears inbetween the epson and jvc in sharpness and colour balance/contrast and brightness capability. its also a very quiet projector and very good in 3D. one main hassle on confirming in store it would not fit my setup due to its restricted throw and zoom. otherwise I would have tried my best to get an example of it as well to throw in this mix. For anyone looking at the x35 or epson I would defintely suggest check out the sony as well.

We are very lucky we have such great products to pick from 

Edited June 13, 2013 by :) al

[DoggieHowser 1,094]

I am not familiar with the X35 but on my RS60 which is about 2 gens back, the best color without calibration is with the Xenon filter. IMHO even better than the THX one.

 

To really see how well the JVC DILA works, I strongly recommend Sin City. You'll be hard pressed to go back to any LCD or DLP projector after that. The blacks are black and the amount of shadow detail is just incredible. I noticed this the first time I got the original HD1, then the HD250, then the RS40 and RS60. The only projector I have seen beat the JVC with this is the Sony 1000ES 4k projector which costs a pretty penny

 

JVC is particularly bad with 3D. The 96Hz refresh and the lack of speed in the panel is what makes ghosting (where the L glasses are still showing a brief overlap of the R image and vice versa) terrible. I don't think they've changed that system much since my RS60. Yes it is better, but it is not revolutionarily better.

 

For 3D, I now use a cheap Optoma HD33. DLPs have terrible black level and the contrast isn't fantastic. Luckily, having polarized glasses help this in some respects when you watch 3D. I also noticed the active glasses seem to eradicate rainbow effects. The only other 3D I have seen which is ghost free is the Sony 1000ES again. If you have the money, that's the ONE projector to buy. But for the rest of us who can accomodate 2 projectors, I'd say the JVC/Optoma combo gives me the best bang.

[betty boop 14,729]

doggie the jvcs have improved a lot I think. the x35 is not far off really with few tweaks. I am being quite picky as colour balance is quite important to me. I have good assurance that though I could get pretty close it can be pretty spot on with not much more effort. which is encouraging. 

 

I do have sin city will check out. my room is fairly light coloured though and reflected light is always going to wash out blacks in that case so ultimate blacks will never be possible no matter the projector. and in this scenario you probably wouldnt believe it but the epson without even running its dynamic iris is actually not far off. there is a noticiable step up though with the jvc I do agree. but lcds have come a long way too and in your typical lounge room surrounds like mine can still do a pretty good job

 

re 3D here too jvc has come a long way. I remember the x3 and it was woefull on 3D. I beleive the x35 is up on refresh rate now at 120hz whcih is a lot better but yeah a touch slower than the epsons 480hz. but still the jvc is still pretty good 3D wise. but your right those serious about 3D will probably go the dual pj using a DLP. And I am a fan of DLPs always like tham but no good in my setup unfortunately due to their restricted zoom/throw and vertical shift  

[DoggieHowser 1,094]

The killer test for me on JVC involves white with orange borders.

Try the opening of Despicable Me menus.

And this was on the latest 60-classreplacement for my RS60.

[yardley 253]

good write up  al ..as you know i have the jvcx90 and it is a amazing projector. elton johns concert on blueray is another goodie to watch on the big screen. 

[betty boop 14,729]

The killer test for me on JVC involves white with orange borders.

Try the opening of Despicable Me menus.

And this was on the latest 60-classreplacement for my RS60.

 

thanks doggie will check out

good write up  al ..as you know i have the jvcx90 and it is a amazing projector. elton johns concert on blueray is another goodie to watch on the big screen. 

 

thanks yardley, yep remember the x90 at the melbourne show when released still THE best projected image have seen from a domestic projector will look out for elton johns concert on blu-ray.

[yardley 253]

with your blind testing al  i think the jvc is the second pic on all of them.maybe im wrong in my  judgement.both projectors look good in picture quality. just the second pics look abit sharper

[betty boop 14,729]

with your blind testing al  i think the jvc is the second pic on all of them.maybe im wrong in my  judgement.both projectors look good in picture quality. just the second pics look abit sharper

 

good on you for having a shot at the blind test, if you hit the little "show" button next to the word "spoiler" under each photo it will let you know whether JVC or epson

[yardley 253]

1. i only got 1 out of 3 right so i failed. really to me both projectors look the same in picture quality.also i like your wall bracket for the pj

[betty boop 14,729]

 

1. i only got 1 out of 3 right so i failed. really to me both projectors look the same in picture quality.also i like your wall bracket for the pj

 

 

they are close yardley. thanks yes wall bracket is the peerless PRG-EXA-UNV that works as either a wall mount or ceiling mount and a very handy thing I must say

[yardley 253]

al i just ordeded  one of those peerless mounts. you have a real nice set up and im sure movie watching at your house is a great experience. love the big denon amp

[betty boop 14,729]

al i just ordeded  one of those peerless mounts. you have a real nice set up and im sure movie watching at your house is a great experience. love the big denon amp

 

thankyou yardley for the kind comments. projector adds really well to the movie experience. love the big denon pre amp, definitely the heart, soul and brains of the system. the peerless mount is a real piece of quality am sure you will be quite pleased with it. even if just using the mount and not the bracket is a very handy thing

[davewantsmoore 6,039]

 Yar. Nice setup!   Thanks for write up.