NEED HELP CHOOSING A PRE/PRO ROTEL/MARANTZ/DENON

[bmwheath]

Hi again guys. Im still having trouble choosing a pre/pro for my home theatre system and im looking for some help

I currently have:

ROTEL RMB 1095 AND RMB 1080 AMPS

PARADIGM STUDIO 60'S, 40'S AND CC690 CENTRE VERSION 4

ONKYO SR876 RECEIVER

SONY ES50 PROJECTOR AND 108' SCREENTECHNICS SCREEN

I will only ever be using my system for 5.2 or possible 7.2 channel and bypass for 2 channel listening which is very important to me.

Im looking to eliminate the onkyo receiver from my system and get a nice pre/pro to compliment my system.

 

Pre/pro's that have cought my eye are: 

MARANTZ AV 7005

MARANTZ AV 7705

MARANTZ AV 8801

ROTEL RSP 1580 (WHICH I CAN GET FOR $2500, RETAIL OF ABOUT $4500)

I dont know much about Marantz model numbers so it gets a little confusing, and is there Denon pre/pro's that are up with these ones i have listed that i should consider?

 

Im looking to spend roughy around $1500-$2500 on either a new or used unit i dont mind either way.

Im sure the Rotel would blend in with the rest of my system like a glove, but how would the likes of Marantz/Denon/Parasound etc be?

 

* Would like all of the latest decoding and room correction etc/ The best audio and visual possible for my budget/

 

Any help very much appreciated, thanks guys. Heath.

Edited May 20, 2013 by bmwheath

[betty boop]

htbpass applies to a 2ch analog pre amp so not a feature you'll find on any one of these. for the budget rule out the marantz 8801 as best you'd find it would be about twice your budget. 

 

re denon their av processor released about 5 years ago and recently updated for 3D audyssey etc was a limited released and no longer available, it retailed for about 7 times your budget anyways was a cost no object thing. next one due in about 5 years as they bring out a flagship like it every 5 years

 

no parasound. in the other options neither will have full audyssey xt 32 whih is the most comprehensive/latest. so could prob go the marantz 7705 with older audyssey xt or go the rotel with no room eq though as you say would match up well with the rest of your amps

[bmwheath]

Thanks again for your input al! Im not sure what i was thinking then, yes i will also need to upgrade my current 2 channel pre amp (Rotel rc1082) as it doesnt have the HT bypass (spewing because i really like this pre amp). This being said can you think of any other pre/pro that would suit my system nicely that would meet my requirments. I have also been looking at the Emotiva XMC-1 which still waiting for a release date priced at $1499 so would be roughy $2000 landed here. Any opinions on the specs of the emo?

[betty boop]

hi heath there are a couple of 2ch analog pre amps with ht bypass going on dtv in the for sale section, one the primare pre 30 and another a stello pre dac. not aware of rotel making a pre with htbypass. emotiva given their track record on pre amps and given poor quality components lack of after sales locally etc I wouldnt touch with a barge pole but thats a call you would need to make

Edited May 19, 2013 by :) al

[betty boop]

ps according to the guys over at club rotel it would appear the rotel 1580 is rotels first 2ch amp with ht bypass

 

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?36694-Rotel-RC-1580-HT-Bypass-(Tape-2)

 

just need to use the tape 2 input as ht bypass it seems

one going cheap here,

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/broadbeach/audio/rotel-pre-amplifier-rc-1580/1009175623

Edited May 19, 2013 by :) al

[bmwheath]

ps according to the guys over at club rotel it would appear the rotel 1580 is rotels first 2ch amp with ht bypass

 

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?36694-Rotel-RC-1580-HT-Bypass-(Tape-2)

 

just need to use the tape 2 input as ht bypass it seems

Hey al, yeah ive been looking at the Rotel rc 1580 pre amp with bypass ( its the newer version of the rc1082 i have now). Ive had no experience with Primare product but i havnt ready any bad reviews to date, what are your opinions on the PRE 30? Sound quality etc?

[WhakPak]

If you could live without MPCM then this will flog all other contenders on your list for sound quality

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HALCRO-LOGIC-SSP80-SURROUND-SOUND-PROCESSOR-PREAMP-IN-NEAR-MINT-CONDITION-/151024345477?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2329c0a185

[DoggieHowser]

I recently swapped out my Denon AVR4810 for a Marantz AV8801 and I have to say even though I have yet to run Audyssey Auto EQ on the new machine, it is pretty impressive, despite the fact that I am using the same external amps for both units.

 

I was changing the speaker settings on the Denon a while back so the EQ data was lost and I never got around to running auto EQ again so it's pretty much a comparison of the pre/pro decoding capabilities of the 2 units.

 

I find that the Marantz seems incredibly good at channel steering. I never noticed how well the sounds pan across the speakers with the Denon, but the Marantz does it so well it's pretty impressive. 

 

 

 

MARANTZ AV 7005

This is an old model. It has Audyssey MultiEQ XT but not XT32 

 

MARANTZ AV 7701

This is merely a refreshed 7005 IMHO and it still doesn't have XT32.

 

MARANTZ AV 8801

This is the flagship and is based off the Denon 4520. It supports up to 11 channels processing with DTS NeoX and Audyssey DSX.

 

 

[Juicester]

I'm gonna stick with my suggestion to by a brand new Onkyo TXNR818 for $1500. 3 years warranty (peace of mind) - and the latest XT32 processing power. Best of all, your resale value will be better than on a stand alone pre.

 

I haven't found a cheaper entry point to the world of XT32 yet.

[betty boop]

Yep I'd agree you'd get better resale on an avr than processor, apart from the onkyo there the denon 4311 with xt32 can also recommend that can usually pick up well within budget

Otherwise if after an av pre pro pretty much limited to options already discussed.

[bmwheath]

Thanks Doggie, thats the sought of info i was after. I would love the AV8801 but just cant afford it right now as just bought a house and building a pool. What does the Audyssey XT32 do differently than the MultiEQ? Is there a Denon unit that compares to the AV8801?

Have you had any experience with Onkyo as a pre/pro to compare to Marantz or Denon? 

[bmwheath]

Hey Juicester, the Onkyo TXNR818 is looking like my best option budget wise, and has XT32, the only reason i havnt bought the Onkyo yet is that i already have an Onkyo receiver (SR876) and not a big fan of the audio qualities, dont get me wrong they have LOTS of features and very well priced but just lack the audio quality im after.... the Marantz AV8801 is ideal but out of budget (unless someone hear is selling  a 2nd hand one cheap (DogdieHowser) lol : )

[Juicester]

Hey Juicester, the Onkyo TXNR818 is looking like my best option budget wise, and has XT32, the only reason i havnt bought the Onkyo yet is that i already have an Onkyo receiver (SR876) and not a big fan of the audio qualities, dont get me wrong they have LOTS of features and very well priced but just lack the audio quality im after.... the Marantz AV8801 is ideal but out of budget (unless someone hear is selling  a 2nd hand one cheap (DogdieHowser) lol : )

 

I certainly think it's (818) in the same ballpark in terms of audio quality as your other equipment. Furthermore, any small gain you might get for using one of the Marantz's, would be offset  (imho) by the fact that they don't have XT32.

 

Here's an article on the differences: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq#multeq-solutions

[DoggieHowser]

Thanks Doggie, thats the sought of info i was after. I would love the AV8801 but just cant afford it right now as just bought a house and building a pool. What does the Audyssey XT32 do differently than the MultiEQ? Is there a Denon unit that compares to the AV8801?

Have you had any experience with Onkyo as a pre/pro to compare to Marantz or Denon? 

 

There are a few grades of Audyssey autoEQ. My 4810 had MultiEQ XT, while the new Denon 4520 (the AVR version of the 8801) has XT32. 

 

XT32 offers a substantial increase in EQ resolution. There's a table here.

 

http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq

 

I used an Onkyo 875 as a preamp for the front 3 channels prior to the Denon 4810. I thought the Denon made the surround channels more discernable. But that could be because the Denon was a 9 channel amp (I was only using it to drive 4 channels, surround and surround back) while the Onkyo was a 7 channel amp (driving same number of channels) and the Denon was less stressed.

 

ps the new Onkyo model which replaces the 818 has just been announced and the news is not good. They've cut down the Audyssey from XT32 to XT. I predict a sudden increase in 818 demand. If that's what you are going for, better hurry.

 

ps I remember there was a group buy for the 8801 a while back in the dtv forums. The prices were surprisingly good! Not much more than what the guys in Singapore were paying IIRC.

Edited May 21, 2013 by DoggieHowser

[Juicester]

Just saw Eastwood has a deal on the 818. What a poo.... this is so damned cheap.

http://www.eastwoodhifi.com.au/specials.html

[blybo]

Hey Juicester, the Onkyo TXNR818 is looking like my best option budget wise, and has XT32, the only reason i havnt bought the Onkyo yet is that i already have an Onkyo receiver (SR876) and not a big fan of the audio qualities, dont get me wrong they have LOTS of features and very well priced but just lack the audio quality im after.... the Marantz AV8801 is ideal but out of budget (unless someone hear is selling  a 2nd hand one cheap (DogdieHowser) lol : )

I had a Onkyo 805 receiver that I was never happy with and recently went pre/pro/power option with Elektra and Integra 80.3 which is basically identical to a Onkyo pre/pro. I was a little concerned staying within the Onkyo family but I shouldn't have worried, the sound difference was chalk and cheese. Much clearer, dynamic and detailed now. I'd had the Elektra for a few weeks with my old receiver so can say the pre/pro made a bigger sound difference than the power amp.

[Janjuggler]

Hi

 

You could also use your current HT AV Amp as a Pre and add an Emotiva XPA-5 for the power ....

 

 

JJ

[joey2511]

htbpass applies to a 2ch analog pre amp so not a feature you'll find on any one of these. for the budget rule out the marantz 8801 as best you'd find it would be about twice your budget. 

 

re denon their av processor released about 5 years ago and recently updated for 3D audyssey etc was a limited released and no longer available, it retailed for about 7 times your budget anyways was a cost no object thing. next one due in about 5 years as they bring out a flagship like it every 5 years

 

no parasound. in the other options neither will have full audyssey xt 32 whih is the most comprehensive/latest. so could prob go the marantz 7705 with older audyssey xt or go the rotel with no room eq though as you say would match up well with the rest of your amp

 

I would have thought HTbypass was more important on an 5 channel pre/pro than a 2 channel pre amp, my Rotel RSP-1570 can do this, I suspect the RSP-1580 can also.

[betty boop]

I would have thought HTbypass was more important on an 5 channel pre/pro than a 2 channel pre amp, my Rotel RSP-1570 can do this, I suspect the RSP-1580 can also.

 

your probably thinking of source direct or some sort of more purist mode, ie bypasses any processing and such. this is different to what you have on a 2ch analog pre amp where a htbypass passes a signal straight through to the pre out ports ie bypassing the volume stage completely. on a 2ch integrated it converts it to effectively a 2ch power amp

[betty boop]

Thanks Doggie, thats the sought of info i was after. I would love the AV8801 but just cant afford it right now as just bought a house and building a pool. What does the Audyssey XT32 do differently than the MultiEQ? Is there a Denon unit that compares to the AV8801?

Have you had any experience with Onkyo as a pre/pro to compare to Marantz or Denon? 

 

if can afford a 8801 and cheapest have seen one of those is $3900. consider as an av processor it effectively carries the denon 4520 under the skin, in dsp, processing and dacs. where there might be a difference is marantz flavour on the analog outputs and its torroid. keeping in mind the denon 4520 was mild update of the 4311, ie adding 4k then a 4311 with its xt32 might be closest next thing. I've seen the 4311 go 2nd hand for $1300 upwards, so if can pick one of those up cheaply could be great buying

[joey2511]

Hey al, yeah ive been looking at the Rotel rc 1580 pre amp with bypass ( its the newer version of the rc1082 i have now). Ive had no experience with Primare product but i havnt ready any bad reviews to date, what are your opinions on the PRE 30? Sound quality etc?

 

In your original question, on of your choices was the RSP-1580 not the RC-1580

[joey2511]

your probably thinking of source direct or some sort of more purist mode, ie bypasses any processing and such. this is different to what you have on a 2ch analog pre amp where a htbypass passes a signal straight through to the pre out ports ie bypassing the volume stage completely. on a 2ch integrated it converts it to effectively a 2ch power amp

 

Thanks Al always read your replies and know they are always on the mark. Haven't bought a 2 channel Amp for 15 yrs or more.

[bmwheath]

Hi

 

You could also use your current HT AV Amp as a Pre and add an Emotiva XPA-5 for the power ....

 

 

JJ

 

Hi there, yes i am already using my Onkyo receiver as a pre/pro, and i already own an Emotiva XPA-5 amp!! I prefer to stick with Rotel products with my system, works well with my Paradigm speakers

Edited May 21, 2013 by bmwheath

[joey2511]

Hi

 

You could also use your current HT AV Amp as a Pre and add an Emotiva XPA-5 for the power ....

 

 

JJ

 

 

Heath, this is the power amp I bought along with the Rotel RSP-1570, had a little problem with Emotiva XPA-5, was to do with the RCA and XLR switch on one channel, just pushed it back and forth to fix it.

In trying to find the problem I hooked it up to my old DENON AVC-3800, the sound in just stereo was unbelievable compared with what I had previously known. Do I prefer the Rotel, probably,but the big difference is the 200 wpc from each channel, from the XPA. We now play music at lower levels and it sounds better. I would never go back to an AVR, although I too wanted XT32, in my opinion a computer program is not going to  be as large an effect, on the sound, as comparing a 19kg AVR to a combination of a 11kg Pre/pro plus a 35kg power amp. I listen to more music than HT, and yes I haven't heard the effect of XT#@.

[WhakPak]

...in my opinion a computer program is not going to  be as large an effect, on the sound, as comparing a 19kg AVR to a combination of a 11kg Pre/pro plus a 35kg power amp. I listen to more music than HT, and yes I haven't heard the effect of XT#@.

The computer program does have a large effect on the sound, particularly where you have a "difficult" room that needs taming. Audyssey Dynamic Eq does to the sound what no pre/pro + power amp (however heavy) can do without it.