pmack Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Hi all, I am looking to purchase an A/V Receiver in the next week or so. This is to power some Aaron SAT-50 speakers. These were purchased 15 years ago. I have been told they were pretty decent so decided to keep them. Specs are: 5" SATELLITE PLASTIC CABINET Freq. Response: 90Hz - 21kHz (+/-3db) Power Rating: 10 - 80 watts Sensitivity: 89db Impedance: 8 ohms Bass Alignment: Low Q Ratio Price: $299ea So $1500 worth of speakers. What Amp should I be looking at between $500-700 to power them? I have considered a few but the main features I am looking for - due to future proofing are: 7.1 and Network Capabilities. Any other features that I should be looking for? So choices are down to the following: Denon AVR-1912 $700 Pioneer VSX922 $600 (until tomorrow at JBHiFi) Onkyo TX-NR579 $489 (Refurbished at Selby Acoustics) So which one should I look at? I have only ever had the cheaper Yamaha A/V Receivers but have just bought a HT Projector and 120" Screen so want to have a better Amp to build up from. Thanks for any assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacewise Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Ive owned the pioneer vsx 919 and the denon 1311. The denon sounded better, so i imagine the denon 1912 sounds even better again than pioneer vsx 919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus_Boy Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 NAD T748 without any doubt - http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/?q=node/view/1574 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmack Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 I am leaning toward the Denon as I have heard good things about them. I know that the NAD T748 would be great but it lacks Ethernet connectivity. Although, this isn't 100% needed it would be good. So, how would the Denon and NAD compare? Is the NAD THAT much better sound quality to lose the functionality of Ethernet is ok? Or should I stick with the Denon. The source for playback will be a PS3. Will play blurays through this and can play any local media if I really want to (unlikely) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 To be honest, with all the problems troubleshooting HDMI protocols which my friend encountered with his then top of the line NAD AV Pre Pro, I'd go with something like a regular consumer electronics company. Unless you don't intend to use HDMI video switching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonadman2 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I've owned NAD products before, if you value sound quality then yes you should be looking at that product first over all others. My brother just bought a Denon 1312 and its passable in terms of sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I don't disagree that the architecture of the NAD seems very geared towards good sound quality and would sound better than a Denon or Onkyo or Marantz or Yamaha of comparable pricing. But after the problems my friend had with HDMI compatibility issues with his last NAD top of the line receiver, we are very wary of NAD. He replaced the NAD with a Denon 4311 using it primarily as a preamp and using external amps for amplification and there was no loss in SQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmack Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Could the issues your friend had be just a problem with his unit? Maybe faulty? I'm leaning toward the NAD a little due to the better SQ. Will it be enough to power these speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It was quite well documented in AVS. They subsequently released a next generation version with a revised HDMI board but a. that new board didn't fix the glitches b. that new board wasn't available on the older buggier models. As for power ratings, I don't have any concerns. NAD tends to be more conservative about their power ratings but these tend to be achievable per channel with all channels driven vs those 150W claims which don't correlate to what you get when all the channels are driven. Just for comparisons, I once compared a 120W Marantz AVR to a modest 60W Marantz integrated stereo amp. Without a doubt, the Marantz integrated drove the speakers better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmack Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Okay. Thanks. Will look into it a bit further tomorrow when I'm on a pc. Have looked at a few reviews for it. Although it lacks some features that others had it seems to definitely make up for it in SQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus_Boy Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Okay. Thanks. Will look into it a bit further tomorrow when I'm on a pc. Have looked at a few reviews for it. Although it lacks some features that others had it seems to definitely make up for it in SQ. I reckon that if you trade one feature, such as ethernet, you ought to get another. In the case of the NAD, they aren't offering you anything, so all you can expect is that it goes towards either build, or sound quality. If they simply produced a product for the same money as the competition, with less features, and equal sound quality, then they wouldn't be in the market for very long. All the reviews i had read on the T748 have been favourable. I haven't read up about the latest Denon's, it may well be a similar story. The NAD though has only recently been discounted, and it also has full 7 ch pre-outs should you later want to add a power amp. If i had to buy an AVR right now in this price range, it would be the NAD. If i can get any comfirmation that it will happily and safely drive 4 ohm speakers with high sensitivity, then i will look into buying one to get me buy before buying an external power amp. Edited November 17, 2012 by Bus_Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan3016 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I have helped a friend set up a basic AV system for a B & B last week. We listened to a few amps at the cheaper end of the market, but the NAD was the only one I could have lived with, fortunately he likes it also! I sounds good with music from an iPod, Cd and bluray. Plays 5 channels well over HDMI. It goes plenty loud enough. As the other posters suggest, you don't get it all at this price point, I chose sound quality over connectivity. This may be a different requirement to you. Can you get to listen to the amps, it really was very clear to me after a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmack Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 ^^ Unfortunately can't really get anywhere to listen to some different sources. Might have to drive to somewhere in Sydney. But its just over an hour away which is annoying. Can anyone in Sydney suggest somewhere to go to "audition" a few receivers? Someone that has both NAD and Denon as that's the 2 I am deciding between. I have had a look at the HDMI issue. It seems to be a lot to do with switching between different sources etc. Really, the only source will be the PS3 to use as a Bluray player (maybe a bit of COD on 120" screen too ) If I do add another source it would probably be a CD Player or a network music player - Squeezebox or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlewino Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 2nd hand Arcam AVR 300 on eBay - one available in your budget now - no association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus_Boy Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) ^^ Unfortunately can't really get anywhere to listen to some different sources. Might have to drive to somewhere in Sydney. But its just over an hour away which is annoying. Can anyone in Sydney suggest somewhere to go to "audition" a few receivers? Someone that has both NAD and Denon as that's the 2 I am deciding between. I have had a look at the HDMI issue. It seems to be a lot to do with switching between different sources etc. Really, the only source will be the PS3 to use as a Bluray player (maybe a bit of COD on 120" screen too ) If I do add another source it would probably be a CD Player or a network music player - Squeezebox or similar. I'm the same it's mainly the blu ray that's plugged in and occasionly i will use a gaming console. I've had problems with all sorts of receivers though, streaming devices ect, i can't recall anything that wasn't analouge running flawlessly the entire time i owned it. Auditioning is hard, but again remember sound quality wise, the NAD has full pre outs, so it's a good path for future upgrades you can upgrade your speakers and also add a power amp and the NAD simply becomes a processor. Otherwise have a look around online i stumbled across a few ex demo, refurbished ect receivers at good prices. Edited November 19, 2012 by Bus_Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmack Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 So, if I feed the HDMI image to the projector directly and then feed audio though and optical cable from the PS3 will that reduce any risk of problems associated with the HDMI onboard the Receiver? Forgive my ignorance, but if HDMI has so many issues whats the benefit to using it over component cables? Is it just an all-in-one solution? I'm still thinking that the NAD receiver seems to be a good deal - a base to work from for the future when I want to upgrade speakers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 HDMI isn't problematic for everyone. I've had no issues with Denon and Onkyo. The reported issues on those brands (plus Marantz and Yamaha) are relatively minor vs those esoteric brands. I think the older McIntosh AV gear are based off Denon so that brand may be an exception to other esoteric stuff. When it works, HDMI is convenient in that it allows audio and video on one cable and because its encrypted, studios allow the full features (HD audio multichannel,3D) to be transmitted over it. Come 2013, component output from bluray players will be limited 480i. Even if component wasn't, you still can't get 1080p24FP 3D from that analog connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmack Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 OK thanks. I have never had a problem with any HDMI sources. And with a PS3 being the only source being connected I don't forsee an issue arising. **touch wood** Think I will go with the NAD. The upgradability and better SQ are perfect for what I need/want out of an AVR. Network capability, now that I think about it, isn't really going to be a loss at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I've got the Denon in my study hooked up to Vaf Soundwall. Good functionality and features....it doesn't make the most the speakers, its pretty ordinary, but then all AVR's under say a grand...and even then. At this end of the market I say go after features as the day to day operation is what matters most. OR - go secondhand and less features but good sound....chances are it wont matter if your speaker budget is around these levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzagruzz Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 pmack, FWIW, I have the Denon AVR-1912 and don't like it that much. Reasons: - not as good build quality as older Denons - no power switch on the front panel to switch the unit completely off - as my older unit had - dreadful instruction manual - the grammar is so bad that I couldn't understand it at all - press a wrong button on the remote and you may switch 'something' around - good luck in trying to find out what you have done from the instructions - dreadful operation generally - using the features really difficult because it's so bloody hard to understand the instructions!!! - steer clear and consider other brands - average sound - Denon have lost the plot me thinks - just too cheap and no thought gone into it for the end user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilco Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I don't disagree that the architecture of the NAD seems very geared towards good sound quality and would sound better than a Denon or Onkyo or Marantz or Yamaha of comparable pricing. But after the problems my friend had with HDMI compatibility issues with his last NAD top of the line receiver, we are very wary of NAD. He replaced the NAD with a Denon 4311 using it primarily as a preamp and using external amps for amplification and there was no loss in SQ. far enough, when spend all that money u expect the best but one cant always compare or stereotype a brand with specific issues. key word -> always comparing a superseded top of the range nad avr with a current entry level nad avr and mentioning potential HDMI issues is similar to saying all toyotas are faulty because of their consistent vehicle recalls in the past 5 years. the architecture in the top of the range nad might have been the root cause of your mate's troubles with HDMI, but on the whole, the T748 is just as reliable as the other big 4 avr companies. Why? I know 2 close to me that own them. both since oct last year, and both purchased from different stores, with different batch numbers, both used like electricity was cheap as chips, and one abused in terms of usage (hdmi switching and outputs). problems? nil. I was expecting overheating issues to cause the hdmi board to shimmer, but no - all is good (for now) - and its already been past one summer season (as sometimes the avrs are used in non airconditioned environments) IMO, for this price range and one is after a new one - NAD T748. The others just pale. However if you factor used - thats a whole new thread. One can get very very decent refurbished amps on ebay with manufacturer warranties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I don't want to belittle the problems associated with HDMI compatibility and handshaking. It's not an easy job and even big CE manufacturers still encounter bugs but because of their installed base, they have resources required to troubleshoot these problems. Compare that to a niche product like, say the NAD or the Emotiva and the scale of it becomes a bigger issue. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilco Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Having said that, i didn't know nad is niche....? Its pretty mainstream i reckon. More common to say, integra (yes, just another Onkyo) or integra research. u can easily say nad is just as common as rotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus_Boy Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Having said that, i didn't know nad is niche....? Should have hanged on to all those NAD amps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilco Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Lol yes i should have! They will appreciate in value! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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