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TigerScent

...on redesigning the Linn LP12...adding redesign ideas...

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An interesting innovation regarding the base would be to do something similar to get away from that 'glued frame' scenario and possibly add a bit more weight to the base at the same time.

The glued frame in its current configuration provides strength in which the entire TT is based. Building a plinth out of a solid piece of timber in the manner which you have described would in fact be significantly structurally inferior (much weaker) to the current plinth.

Hmmmm, that would retain the 'character' of the LP12 yet improve its appearance tremendously, esp. if using a nice wood grain with features....,

"Retain the 'character' ". How would you know this, you have never listened to a LP12. You talk of improving the sound of a product you have never heard so how would you know where the sonic improvements need to come from, if at all?

and no concerns of glue (or whatever) etc coming apart with a loosening frame and causing (possible) vibration/s.

It is very rare for the joints of a LP12 plinth to loosen up unless subjected to rough handling or extreme weather conditions.

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...I redesigned my Rega Planar 3,

Redesigned it??? Please!!! You tweaked a product, which when you look at it is just a TT based on a clock motor with a chipboard plinth!

and it sounds rather -good- in comparison.
What other TT's, or other R3's have you compared it to?
We are talking about progressive brain-storming here, not playing some kind of TT quasi-politics...., but rather catalysing a creative spark of innovative-progress...., otherwise, we might as well recede into the dungeon of perpetual $$$ spending semi-bitter stagnations of commercialised acceptance of brand name budgetry constraints and part innovations which may have worked to a point but scream out for greater acknowledgement and re-evaluation.... ...breaking accepted (or perceived) paradigms to ones of a higher level is what the progressive mind is unendingly motivated to perpetually achieve....

Why don't you design and build a TT from the ground up?

Edited by flemo

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The glued frame in its current configuration provides strength in which the entire TT is based. Building a plinth out of a solid piece of timber in the manner which you have described would in fact be significantly structurally inferior (much weaker) to the current plinth.

I totally disagree....with the right wood/material its is logical that a solid piece would be much sturdier then one glued together. This is usually verified when an object of that nature comes under severe stress and falls apart.

"Retain the 'character' ". How would you know this, you have never listened to a LP12. You talk of improving the sound of a product you have never heard so how would you know where the sonic improvements need to come from, if at all?

I look at the principles of the design and contruction and materials used...Its not rocket science really...

It is very rare for the joints of a LP12 plinth to loosen up unless subjected to rough handling or extreme weather conditions.

....exactly !!...a solid piece is likely to stay 'solid' and therefore would be superior IMO...

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Redesigned it??? Please!!! You tweaked a product, which when you look at it is just a TT based on a clock motor with a chipboard plinth!

What other TT's, or other R3's have you compared it to?

NO....I 're-designed' it....It is signficantly redesigned with regards to the motor isolation assembly... 'Tweaking' is akin to 'glorified fiddling' with more superficial modifications, and yes, I did some of that too..., in addition...

Why don't you design and build a TT from the ground up?

I am planning on that down the track...

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Just been researching a political cult called the MEK and came to SNA for some relief .....

Oh dear,

Here you all go again

Nearly a year ago we did this on what became one of SNAs most all time popular threads

A thread which the linn cultists eventually colonized as their own

Will return in a week or so to see how far you have not advanced

Edited by djb

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Just been researching a political cult called the MEK and came to SNA for some relief .....

Oh dear,

Here you all go again

Nearly a year ago we did this on what became one of SNAs most all time popular threads

A thread which the linn cultists eventually colonized as their own

Will return in a week or so to see how far you have not advanced

I'm not a Linnie, far from it!!

I've owned a LP12, have heard about a dozen of them, owned a R3, so I believe my POV on this subject has a certain credibility, but I am not champing for the cause of the LP12. In fact nowhere in my posts did I express anything of a positive or negative nature about the LP12.

Edited by flemo

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NO....I 're-designed' it....It is signficantly redesigned with regards to the motor isolation assembly... 'Tweaking' is akin to 'glorified fiddling' with more superficial modifications, and yes, I did some of that too..., in addition...

I disagree. You took a product where a company over many decades has deigned and altered this product, and you made some changes which you consider modified the performance.

Tweaking is tweaking. If it is a superficial modification or not, that evaluation is subject to personal opinion. You may call it re-designing, some may listen to it and think you have impeded the performance and call it the retardation of a 'capable' product. Opinion!

I look forward to a TigerScent TT in the near future?

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Just been researching a political cult called the MEK and came to SNA for some relief .....

Oh dear,

Here you all go again

Nearly a year ago we did this on what became one of SNAs most all time popular threads

A thread which the linn cultists eventually colonized as their own

Will return in a week or so to see how far you have not advanced

No Linn 'cultism' here...., in fact, have been trying to inject a reasonable attitude and approach to deeper thought and progress with an clear element of aloofness and objectivity anchored in common sense and projected/percieved possible results... :party

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I disagree. You took a product where a company over many decades has deigned and altered this product, and you made some changes which you consider modified the performance.

Tweaking is tweaking. If it is a superficial modification or not, that evaluation is subject to personal opinion. You may call it re-designing, some may listen to it and think you have impeded the performance and call it the retardation of a 'capable' product. Opinion!

I look forward to a TigerScent TT in the near future?

Well, it is 'not' the same design the 'company' used for 'many decades' with regards to a significant part of it, ... in fact it is radically different in appearance by careful observation...and performance.... I will go further down this track and leave the good elements and improve the elements I consider need improving... You can call it what you will, but it is quite visually and structurallly different by design and principle in key areas... I think most on observation would consider this to be a major modification or 're-design' ....however you are free to believe as you wish... :D

...what have you done in this regard???

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...what have you done in this regard???

I considered that my R3 had a glass platter, a plastic sub-platter, a belt the size of a rubber band, a chipboard plinth, and a clock motor with very little torque. I sold it and purchased a LP12, a significant step up in performance, and cheaper than modifying the R3. I no longer have the LP12 as I upgraded to something more substantial IMHO.

I accept that most products will have limitations and no amount of tweaking can alter the overall pedigree of a product. Best to save up and move on up the ladder - IMHO.

Anyhoo, this is going around in circles, pardon the pun!! :lol:

Edited by flemo

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I think the LP12 is an interesting product, perhaps a contentious product, to tackle for this project. After all, I think there is little doubt that from the beginning it has been a product specifically designed and 'tuned' for a certain sonic signature.

A much-loved sonic signature.

I have even wondered from time to time where Linn are heading with their recent upgrade mods which seem to involve a lot of 'stiffening up' such as the keel, and regulation of the electronics. Are they going to throw the baby out with the bathwater? I would suspect Linn are keenly aware of what they, and their fans, want to retain in its signature, and the need to tread a fine line between improving certain sonic aspects and not losing others.

I look at the LP12 in the category of Esoteric Euphonica, similar to the Japanese esoteric valve amps in another thread, where anyone can look at them and say "OMG I can beef up the power supply, I can put current sources on the cathodes, these are pretty basic and in need of my help" but really no, they are actually quite finely tuned.

I think there is some risk that you are going to start with a Morgan Plus 8 and finish with a Falcon GT.

Really it could be a better idea to start with one of the nice Project TTs, for example, and soup it up with gay abandon?

Just a few thoughts.

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I think the LP12 is an interesting product, perhaps a contentious product, to tackle for this project. After all, I think there is little doubt that from the beginning it has been a product specifically designed and 'tuned' for a certain sonic signature.

A much-loved sonic signature.

I have even wondered from time to time where Linn are heading with their recent upgrade mods which seem to involve a lot of 'stiffening up' such as the keel, and regulation of the electronics. Are they going to throw the baby out with the bathwater? I would suspect Linn are keenly aware of what they, and their fans, want to retain in its signature, and the need to tread a fine line between improving certain sonic aspects and not losing others.

I look at the LP12 in the category of Esoteric Euphonica, similar to the Japanese esoteric valve amps in another thread, where anyone can look at them and say "OMG I can beef up the power supply, I can put current sources on the cathodes, these are pretty basic and in need of my help" but really no, they are actually quite finely tuned.

I think there is some risk that you are going to start with a Morgan Plus 8 and finish with a Falcon GT.

Really it could be a better idea to start with one of the nice Project TTs, for example, and soup it up with gay abandon?

Just a few thoughts.

...Hi Newman, ....actually I did modify a Rega Planar 3..., with outstanding results. I find it of interest to 'particularly' target the LP12, as it seems to have been elevated to a 'nebulous status' yet I believe improvement can -- yet be made. After all, it is just a collection of metal and wood put together...

...having some deeper understanding of how the human mind can work, the almost 'psuedo-awe' that some live in, in the prescence of the LP12 still mystifies me.., yet its very easy to understand how overly projected importance can make anything overly 'shine' in ones mind..., and give it a 'godly status'...(by all appearances?!?!)

...breaking this conditioned veneer with greater innovation giving en-humbled LP12 owners an opportunity to hammer and chisel out that hidden elusive element of sonic joy they secretly feel is just escaping them, ... yet I admire the stiff upper lip and unyeilding conviction bordering on a quasi-religous faith...

...no, I specifically have decided to work on an LP12 as soon as I get one. The first Rega Planar 3 I modifed in the 90's, I actually sold (always regretted it) to a Linn LP12 owner who wanted an equivalent sounding turntable to play his 45's....As soon as he came in and played his records, the sounds were all coming out of the air and I wondered why on earth I was actually selling it...He just scooped it up as soon as he heard it...

...now its the Linn LP12's turn...

Edited by TigerScent

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...actually I do have plans down the track to create a slate slab TT (already have them) taking into consideration the general 'Rega look' in terms of the slate slab look with glass platter and RB300/250 arm, ....(actually its probably a total redesign) with a suspended platter section...I like the 'look' of the Rega and general design idea..., however it would go way past it. I believe a suspended new-design would be very interesting..., that would not just be a 'souped up Rega' but much more with far greater innovation....

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