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TigerScent

...on redesigning the Linn LP12...adding redesign ideas...

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...after having seen the basics of the Linn LP12, I thought to myself how easy it would be to improve and redesign this revolving platter on springs....

...why it is so overated, who knows, as its aesthetics could do with a bit of re-engineered refurbishment...and sonically a modified Rega Planar 3 can really shake the foundations of most mid-level turntables such as the LP12....

...however, replacing the springs with air-shock? or the like .... type suspension would be a good start....

...and ditching the clucky base..., for something a bit more streamlined and space-age looking, such as...hmmmm.... a nice slate base, a bit like a Rega Planar perhaps...., but using air-cushioned suspension...., and then of course...., a RB250/300 arm or the like as a starting point....modified...

...really, keeping things simple ....

...would it be a glorified Rega Planar 3?....or a Rega'd LP12....or something inbetween?

...further (sensible) ideas can be freely contributed..., as this is how progress is achieved...

...personally, I feel both the Rega and Linn need modification to be at thier best, however, the Rega does LOOK good....; incorporates the K.I.S.S principle and should sound as it looks (modified); while the Linn looks a bit like an inner-spring mattress on the inside..., and seems somewhat overated to the nebulous and ambigious ceiling loft.... both need some modifications and tweaks to be at thier best, and probably a redesign of the 2 most practically applied..., although the Linn needs some serious re-designing....IMO

I probably should add that I dont think much of the low-density Rega base either, which I believe is its weakest point (even though it looks much better) however with motor isolation it does become a negligible issue; sadly though, the LP12 base is quite an eyesore and painful to look at - clunky, complicated like a drawer or picture frame construction, which in time would loosen and vibrate. It can be redesigned aesthetically and sonically improved

...feel free to add any further reasonable ideas for improving the LP12...., , with practical (not emotional) considerations.... lol

Edited by TigerScent

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If anyone has an unused LP12 gathering dust in an attic or loft somewhere, then feel free to contribute it to the further-ence of sonic science and innovation, ... as the idea has rather piqued my interest as a 'hands-on' modification of the LP12..., and I believe I can improve a standard model noticably with some common sense application..., looking at its design elements/physics...

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Look at Funk Firm's mods. Also search Cetech in NZ.

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...yes....good....thanks....

...we need common-sense practical thinking that is progress...

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This thread is obviously a wind-up.

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Agree Wol- the giveaway, besides the Chernobyl strength ego portrayed, is the moniker- territorial pissings and all that.........

ZM.

Edited by Zen Mister

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Plus, he lives in Qld, right? :P

Regards,

Andy

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Agree Wol- the giveaway, besides the Chernobyl strength ego portrayed, is the moniker- territorial pissings and all that.........

ZM.

What an obnoxious response ...Can't you have some finesse and common decency in making a comment...

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TigerScent

you seem to have no understanding of the principals behind either the LP12 or Rega (or turntables in general) but then think you can improve them from some random thought

or "visual" redesign.

Not to say either is perfect, but both are designed by companies that have good RD budgets and experienced engineers

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This thread caught my eye, as a Linn afficionado.

I dont have the technical knowledge to opine about whether this deck can be improved by the likes of airshocks or even scaled down monster truck tires.

I am sympathetic to the idea that competent folks designed these things, and persuaded that upgrades turned out by similarly competent folks is a good idea.

Along these lines, i can tell you from experience that the Cetech subchassis is an audibly superior upgrade over the stock one, as heard through an Ittok arm, and Adikt cartridge.

Indeed, you are welcome to buy one from me that is sitting in my basement. That's because I can also attest to the even more dramatic improvement to be had again with the Audio Innovations subchassis. If I follow the designers reasoning, the Cetech is lighter than the stock subchassis. The AI is the same weight. To what extent this,or any other attribute is a factor, I surely can't say, but thr AI sure is nice.

I look forward to forthcoming reports of air shock enhanced LP 12 performance.

Brenton

Edited by Tube Nube

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This thread caught my eye, as a Linn afficionado.

I dont have the technical knowledge to opine about whether this deck can be improved by the likes of airshocks or even scaled down monster truck tires.

I am sympathetic to the idea that competent folks designed these things, and persuaded that upgrades turned out by similarly competent folks is a good idea.

Along these lines, i can tell you from experience that the Cetech subchassis is an audibly superior upgrade over the stock one, as heard through an Ittok arm, and Adikt cartridge.

Indeed, you are welcome to buy one from me that is sitting in my basement. That's because I can also attest to the even more dramatic improvement to be had again with the Audio Innovations subchassis. If I follow the designers reasoning, the Cetech is lighter than the stock subchassis. The AI is the same weight. To what extent this,or any other attribute is a factor, I surely can't say, but thr AI sure is nice.

I look forward to forthcoming reports of air shock enhanced LP 12 performance.

Brenton

Hey Brenton

...thanks for a reasonable response..., air shocks is an idea, among many others, ie: magnetic resistance, even gel suspension, or a more innovative spring design, ...., and apart from that, a more solid base...., with possible combinations of the above...

...I redesigned my Rega Planar 3, which I was NOT happy with in its stock standard form..., and it sounds rather -good- in comparison. It was a clear improvement by at least a factor of another 50% minimum. The same I believe would apply with Linn LP12. We are talking about progressive brain-storming here, not playing some kind of TT quasi-politics...., but rather catalysing a creative spark of innovative-progress...., otherwise, we might as well recede into the dungeon of perpetual $$$ spending semi-bitter stagnations of commercialised acceptance of brand name budgetry constraints and part innovations which may have worked to a point but scream out for greater acknowledgement and re-evaluation....

...breaking accepted (or perceived) paradigms to ones of a higher level is what the progressive mind is unendingly motivated to perpetually achieve....

Cheers-z

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"breaking accepted (or perceived) paradigms to ones of a higher level is what the progressive mind is unendingly motivated to perpetually achieve...."

wow

perhaps a visit to Colorado would help

man

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TS , I would suggest you buy a good condition LP12 , have some one who understands how the product works set it up for you and then live with it for a while so you can gain some understanding of how the Lp12 reproduces music b4 you start modifying.

My envolvement with the Lp12 dates back 30 yrs as a non partisan retailer. I have experienced many mods , all change the sound but few are true wholesale improvements on the Linn's ability to deliver a musically engrossing sound.

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TS , I would suggest you buy a good condition LP12 , have some one who understands how the product works set it up for you and then live with it for a while so you can gain some understanding of how the Lp12 reproduces music b4 you start modifying.

My envolvement with the Lp12 dates back 30 yrs as a non partisan retailer. I have experienced many mods , all change the sound but few are true wholesale improvements on the Linn's ability to deliver a musically engrossing sound.

Thanks Ozcall...

It would be interesting to make a comparions of 'before/after' ...The mods I make are generally based on principles based on the simplicity of isolation, stability, damping and conduction...I believe these are universally applicable..., with minor variations...

...The only reason the LP12 comes to mind, is because of its classical popularity...., Im certain based on sound principles improvement can be attained looking at the design/construction....

Cheers...

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Thanks Ozcall...

It would be interesting to make a comparions of 'before/after' ...The mods I make are generally based on principles based on the simplicity of isolation, stability, damping and conduction...I believe these are universally applicable..., with minor variations...

...The only reason the LP12 comes to mind, is because of its classical popularity...., Im certain based on sound principles improvement can be attained looking at the design/construction....

Cheers...

LP12 is pretty overrated anyway - why don't you choose something more worthy of your obvious passion and ability with upgrading ?

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The thing about the Lp12 is that it is a well balanced set of comprimises designed to produce a particular type of sound. It's fairly easy to play around with the things you mention and many , many folk have over the years but it's also very easy to loose the lp12's ability to play the 'tune'.

I would suggest doing a massive amount of research so you don't end up wasitng your time on things that have been tried and found wanting.

There was a guy in Glasgow , back in the 80's ,who advocated filling the Linn plinth with bitumen and concrete , certianly changed the sound but cost a few folk a lot of money for new plinths :)

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LP12 is pretty overrated anyway - why don't you choose something more worthy of your obvious passion and ability with upgrading ?

Let's not go there!

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Let's not go there!

The other great thing about the Sondek is that ,more than any other turntable ,so much is documented, as such it's a good platform for TS's experiments.

Edited by Ozcall

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...yes, Im looking forward to getting my hands on one and testing the vinyl spin after significant mods....

...did Breton mention he had one sitting in his basement gathering dust???...

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LP12 is pretty overrated anyway - why don't you choose something more worthy of your obvious passion and ability with upgrading ?

Now, now, A J ... be nice! :P

Regards,

Andy

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There was a guy in Glasgow , back in the 80's ,who advocated filling the Linn plinth with bitumen and concrete , certianly changed the sound but cost a few folk a lot of money for new plinths :)

While I love my new LP12 plinth - made by Vince "Once Analog" Hamilton last year to my design, from a plank of heavily figured Tasmanian Myrtle (which improved the sound of my LP12 by a couple of notches, as well as looking great), my mate Rick Powell decided to remove his LP12 plinth entirely! :) So instead of a plinth which supports a top-plate from which the subchassis springs hang ... he has an over-turned "spider" made from 3mm x 25mm aluminium strap, which is screwed to a wood base. The 3 springs are fixed to this (pointing upwards) and the subchassis sits on top of them.

The motor is supported by a steel bracket which is bolted to a second wood base, which sits underneath - and isolated from - the wood base mentioned earlier; there is a circular cutout in this, so the motor bracket doesn't connect to the upper wood base supporting the spider/springs.

Rick considers that his "LP12" sounds significantly better than when it had a plinth and a top-plate! :D

Regards,

Andy

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Sorry Tigerman,

It's only a Cetech sub chassis, with Cetech arm board attached sitting in the basement.

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While I love my new LP12 plinth - made by Vince "Once Analog" Hamilton last year to my design, from a plank of heavily figured Tasmanian Myrtle (which improved the sound of my LP12 by a couple of notches, as well as looking great), my mate Rick Powell decided to remove his LP12 plinth entirely! :) So instead of a plinth which supports a top-plate from which the subchassis springs hang ... he has an over-turned "spider" made from 3mm x 25mm aluminium strap, which is screwed to a wood base. The 3 springs are fixed to this (pointing upwards) and the subchassis sits on top of them.

The motor is supported by a steel bracket which is bolted to a second wood base, which sits underneath - and isolated from - the wood base mentioned earlier; there is a circular cutout in this, so the motor bracket doesn't connect to the upper wood base supporting the spider/springs.

Rick considers that his "LP12" sounds significantly better than when it had a plinth and a top-plate! :D

Regards,

Andy

...hey that was one of my (original?) ideas I wanted to try..., the up-turned springs...

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Now, now, A J ... be nice! :P

Regards,

Andy

;) ...... :popcorn:

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While I love my new LP12 plinth - made by Vince "Once Analog" Hamilton last year to my design, from a plank of heavily figured Tasmanian Myrtle (which improved the sound of my LP12 by a couple of notches, as well as looking great), my mate Rick Powell decided to remove his LP12 plinth entirely! :) So instead of a plinth which supports a top-plate from which the subchassis springs hang ... he has an over-turned "spider" made from 3mm x 25mm aluminium strap, which is screwed to a wood base. The 3 springs are fixed to this (pointing upwards) and the subchassis sits on top of them.

The motor is supported by a steel bracket which is bolted to a second wood base, which sits underneath - and isolated from - the wood base mentioned earlier; there is a circular cutout in this, so the motor bracket doesn't connect to the upper wood base supporting the spider/springs.

Rick considers that his "LP12" sounds significantly better than when it had a plinth and a top-plate! :D

Regards,

Andy

Speaking of Tasmanian myrtle and a heavy wood plank, ...actually, I had a friend that made violins out of a (almost) solid piece of wood. He would gouge out the parts not needed sculpting the wood. The sound was phenomenal. Vibrant-natural and would carry and penetrate yet was mellow. An interesting innovation regarding the base would be to do something similar to get away from that 'glued frame' scenario and possibly add a bit more weight to the base at the same time. Hmmmm, that would retain the 'character' of the LP12 yet improve its appearance tremendously, esp. if using a nice wood grain with features...., and no concerns of glue (or whatever) etc coming apart with a loosening frame and causing (possible) vibration/s.

(...actually the up-turned springs was more of an innovative 'Rega mod idea' I was thinking of...hmmmm)

Edited by TigerScent

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