MantisToboggan Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hey folks, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the recent range of Yamahas? I'm weighing up whether the extra money to step to an Aventage is truly worth it. There doesn't seem to be a real consensus as to whether there is a real difference between the Aventage and the 73 series. Dealers that stock the Aventage swear that sonically it's better, but others seem more skeptical about the marketing drive ("it's just a a fifth foot and an extended warranty"). I'm looking to compare the RX-A2020 and the RX-V2073. Who's got some opinions they would like to share? I'm looking for comparisons mainly on the musical side of things. Cheers, ST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avalon27 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 ive had the RX3071 For a few weeks now and im really happy with it.i bought it from rio hifi who are in melbourne and they shipped it over here to the west for 1545 which included delivery. does and has everything the aventage except the 5th leg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Check out what they are saying on Eastwood Hifi website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantisToboggan Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 ive had the RX3071 For a few weeks now and im really happy with it.i bought it from rio hifi who are in melbourne and they shipped it over here to the west for 1545 which included delivery. does and has everything the aventage except the 5th leg... Yeah, I think that tends to be the consensus. Thanks for your feedback. Check out what they are saying on Eastwood Hifi website Do you have a specific page in mind? Their website isn't particularly well designed or maintained, although I emailed Steve and he was very helpful. He recommended the Aventage line over the 73 series. Better build quality and sonics etc. I'm skeptical though. Sales people tend to recommend the Aventage, while many people on the forums suggest the same as here, ie "same sonics, but 5th foot(!)". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilco Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 For the money, I wld buy at least the marantz range. They trend to not lie about things....oh....I don't know.....like power production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bus_Boy Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 For the money, I wld buy at least the marantz range. They trend to not lie about things....oh....I don't know.....like power production. I read somewhere that the Yamaha 30 (what ever it was) outperformed the Emotiva xpa-5 on power output, even though it claims less? I'll see if i can find the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfdoddsy Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-a3000-aventage I had one driving a pair of Apogee Stages without complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilco Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I read somewhere that the Yamaha 30 (what ever it was) outperformed the Emotiva xpa-5 on power output, even though it claims less? I'll see if i can find the article. that would be a good read actually, finally something to prove that I can downgrade yamaha power claims from "Extreme Liars" to "Liars" lol Cheerio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avalon27 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 ive had many yamaha amps over the years and i dont think they overrate there power claims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilco Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 ive had many yamaha amps over the years and i dont think they overrate there power claims http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/45361-onkyo-has-reached-output-limit/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avalon27 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 look im happy with yamaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantisToboggan Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 http://www.stereo.ne...d-output-limit/ Hi Wilco, I had a read through your comments in the other thread and while I'm pretty new to this kind of thing, I think this might help. About two-thirds of the way down the page they explain that power rating is not the maximum power consumption. Have a read, and see what you think. I find it hard that you talk so negatively about Yamaha products without ever having owned one, but opinions are what I came for. Thanks for your input. ive had many yamaha amps over the years and i dont think they overrate there power claims What are you driving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avalon27 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 the 3071 is driving classic ascension speakers at the moment and they seem to be well matched. how do you find your dali speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantisToboggan Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 the 3071 is driving classic ascension speakers at the moment and they seem to be well matched. how do you find your dali speakers? They are great, but wasted on my crappy little Sherwood. Haha, pretty frustrating. I rushed in to the purchase because of a great price, but now I've got to wait for a new receiver ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilco Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Hi Wilco, I had a read through your comments in the other thread and while I'm pretty new to this kind of thing, I think this might help. About two-thirds of the way down the page they explain that power rating is not the maximum power consumption. Have a read, and see what you think. I find it hard that you talk so negatively about Yamaha products without ever having owned one, but opinions are what I came for. Thanks for your input. Thanks for that, great read However as consumers, on the whole as usual, we are being deceived (because perhaps the general public want to be deceived) Yes my original point of saying 490w power consumption (and not max power) divided by 9 channels gives 54wpc = is incorrect but widely stereotyped by audio consumers because there is not much to rely on as they can't possibly rely on the manufacturer's claims. And, for multichannel receivers, they are saying that they typically run 1 channnel at rated power and the others at 1/8th power which is much closer to the 500 watt rating on the backpanel,which is even worse. So yes, you can still do a rough calc in your head during your window shopping phase and work out that from the rear power rating, it would be difficult for the receiver to achieve such power claims in the specifications. And now has stated your neat audioholics link below: So What Have We Learned? Most of the ACD power figured in magazines and/or in manufacturers product literature are highly conditional, vary from publication to publication, and are usually not product representative. These ratings are typically taken using the 1kHz Psweep test for 8 ohms at amplifier clipping and almost never done at 4 ohms for all channels. The ACD test is NOT representative of normal program material.. Despite many manufacturers' boasts to the contrary, most multi-channel amplifiers' ACD power ratings are, at best, a highly conditional rating. So, Who is to Blame For Inflated Power Figures? First, the consuming public for demanding unqualified numbers over real performance. Second, the review publications for pandering to an uneducated demand for numbers without attempting to frame these "test results" in "real world" performance terms. Finally, the manufacturers themselves for playing the numbers game despite the fact that they should know better. Closing Thoughts Understanding amplifier power ratings can be a difficult task in an industry almost devoid of standards and rife with loose interpretations of existing standards that have exceeded their usefulness and practicality in today's multi-channel environment. Deceptive marketing and inadequately stated test conditions certainly don't help this situation. We do know some manufacturers that are steering clear of these power claims, and it shows in their products. For instance, the traditional 5 channel Rotel product with their rear power ratings state (for example RMB985MKII) 800w power consumption. So that's 1 channel driven and the rest at 1/8 of the power, however their specifications only rate each 5 channels as 100wpc. Though this may still be incorrect, it's a more accurate measure for consumers as a whole when they refer to the rear power consumption rating. So when you compare 490w power consumption rating by 9 channels - the consumer goes "What?!?" We know many other brands who like to carry underinflated ratings as supposed to overinflation. Hence my negativity towards yamaha is towards their numbers game, and that it has been the same since eons. Either way, I'm sure they make great receivers with industry leading features, so I'll stop hijacking this thread and say goodluck with the new receiver , whatever that maybe (be sure to get a nice recliner ) Edited November 10, 2012 by Wilco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avalon27 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 come back wilco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilco Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 come back wilco ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Thanks for that, great read However as consumers, on the whole as usual, we are being deceived (because perhaps the general public want to be deceived) Yes my original point of saying 490w power consumption (and not max power) divided by 9 channels gives 54wpc = is incorrect but widely stereotyped by audio consumers because there is not much to rely on as they can't possibly rely on the manufacturer's claims. And, for multichannel receivers, they are saying that , which is even worse. So yes, you can still do a rough calc in your head during your window shopping phase and work out that from the rear power rating, it would be difficult for the receiver to achieve such power claims in the specifications. And now has stated your neat audioholics link below: We do know some manufacturers that are steering clear of these power claims, and it shows in their products. For instance, the traditional 5 channel Rotel product with their rear power ratings state (for example RMB985MKII) 800w power consumption. So that's 1 channel driven and the rest at 1/8 of the power, however their specifications only rate each 5 channels as 100wpc. Though this may still be incorrect, it's a more accurate measure for consumers as a whole when they refer to the rear power consumption rating. So when you compare 490w power consumption rating by 9 channels - the consumer goes "What?!?" We know many other brands who like to carry underinflated ratings as supposed to overinflation. Hence my negativity towards yamaha is towards their numbers game, and that it has been the same since eons. Either way, I'm sure they make great receivers with industry leading features, so I'll stop hijacking this thread and say goodluck with the new receiver , whatever that maybe (be sure to get a nice recliner ) As you have noted, very few manufacturers quote full power to all chaanels driven at once. It seems that they may rate just any two channels only. I suppose thats why additional power amps are so popular! But! for most situations thats all most HT systems need, after all its the mains,centre and sub whiich draw most of the power. The rears/surrounds rarely draw much juice at all with only some surround effects being generated. All in all, the Yammy receivers are very good units IMO.One just must be aware of what the power figures are really representing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantisToboggan Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 As you have noted, very few manufacturers quote full power to all chaanels driven at once. It seems that they may rate just any two channels only. I suppose thats why additional power amps are so popular! But! for most situations thats all most HT systems need, after all its the mains,centre and sub whiich draw most of the power. The rears/surrounds rarely draw much juice at all with only some surround effects being generated. All in all, the Yammy receivers are very good units IMO.One just must be aware of what the power figures are really representing. Yeah, these are my thoughts exactly. If I'm listening to music and want to push it a little, that's only going to be in stereo (possibly with a sub), if I'm watching a movie and want surround, I don't necessarily need 100+ Watts for every channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacewise Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 So in summary : we look for power consumption figures that are higher than power output figures, and stereo output that is higher than multichannel output. Is that when we can somewhat trust the output figures for avr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) the power consumption figure is a very good indicator of what the avr can consume at best. keep in mind with inefficiency due to heat loss etc actual power reserves will be a lot less. also with regard max power its dynamic range that needs reserves of power. and that its the quality of the power and not the quantity thats the important thing. you can get high output PA amps and the kind but they would sound sh!te in this application. one thing you cant do is trust power output claims of manufacturers particularly the japanese avr makers in yamaha, denon pioneer or sony, onkyo, marantz etc. its more marketting than reality. as you spend up in their ranges though you will find their power output claims dont necessarily increase but the quality of the amp stages usually do. in the avr stakes makers such as nad, rotel, cambridge, arcam, harman kardon and the like you will find pretty honest in power claims and invest heavily in the power stages of their avrs all this doesnt mean the avrs from the other brands are bad. no avrs no matter the maker can be a bit of a compromise jsut some makers put more in their amp design than others. and when was life not full of compromises of some sort or the other Edited November 11, 2012 by :) al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacewise Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I think active subs in my def techs makes them quite kind to the AVR. Could it be that those more interested in just having an AVR should buy high efficiency and/or powered speakers of some sort. I know my system goes way beyond comfortably loud and into, "lets leave the house" loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avalon27 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 i think the yamaha 3071 is a great amp and plenty of power to boot. the denon 4311 is another great amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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